"If I wanted America to fail"

[Kedosto]

Originally Posted by NRiderUSA

As far as anyone was for before they were against it stuff.....have you ever listen to the before elected and after elected speeches of your saviour? Probably not since you dont do Fox...

Thanks for making my earlier point so very clear. Your dexterity in dodging the clear points contained in Page's link illustrate the very nature of our problem today.

If you won't look to your "own side" of the problem and instead immediately cast aspersions on the other guys, when and how will the problems ever get solved?

If you so strongly support your party, then please address each and every one of the points listed in Page's link with your own parties leadership. Do it for the integrity of your party and for yourself. Simply retorting with a "well your guy does it too" comeback is weak and immature, and does NOTHING to better our situation.

As I said before, the type of response you made is EXACTLY what each party wants. They want you to be distracted and as angry as possible with "the other guys," so you won't be asking THEM the tough questions.

Believe me, I'm no apologist for EITHER party, but until guys like you are willing to grill their own party and hold their own party responsible for their actions, nothing is ever going to change.

The "your savior" phrase and cartoons were a nice, classy touch. Nothing like cheap shots at the other guys to make you feel bigger and better about yourself. Oh yes, both sides do it, but that doesn't make it right. Again - part of the problem, not a solution.

Educate yourself on the issues. And not just sound bite, bumper sticker politics either. I mean really educate yourself with an open mind, then take the issues to your party of choice and HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS. If BOTH sides would clean up the bullshit in their own parties we'd all be MUCH better off, but noooo they're too busy fingerpointing and fighting like schoolgirls.

I hate to say it, and I don't even know you, but you're being manipulated more than Charlie McCarthy. Keep on blindly hating "the other guys" without holding your own party responsible and we're all doomed.

[NRiderUSA]

The conversation was already proven at one of 2 points on validity by Page….whats left to discuss.

The First:

“My first impression of your video and what it was suggesting... loony-tunes, but hey, people are entitled to their opinions, but it is not based on any facts I have seen in 20 years in education.”

OR behind door #2

The Second:

"It isn't the way teachers want it, it's just because it happens that way" from your video. Or more to the point, it is how we are legislated to teach, to a test, of little value, which has nothing to do with creativity and in fact stifles it, all to make politicians who have also never visited a classroom feel better... they call it accountability . If creativity is of such importance then please tell me why, when they start cutting staff, ARTS teachers are the first to go?

Take your pick…. I don’t need to, the first IMHO was a knee jerk reaction to the video. The second was self defense on valid information about the education system….I believe the second to be more accurate appraisal of the truth.
The video gives dates people and details that if you dont agree with, dont just call them liars prove them liars.

Page, appears to be a 20 year expert on the matter already stated the truth, the legislated education system wont allow teachers to do whats right which sounds to me like they cant do anything unless the government stop legislating education….. not my words.

Which also affirms what my view (and others) is, that big government that doesn’t work and has proven for decades it doesn’t, will not work any better if you make it bigger, give it more control or even if you spend more money on it….which has been tried over and over and over again over decades…..but this time it will work…….that is the definition of insanity.

I don’t think I have been trying to defend anyone, anything or any party when I point out the problems going on under this administration’s policies and actions..... and if you had not noticed, the Democrats control what will and what wont be allowed at the moment and since 2006, there is no balance.

As far as commenting on my critisims of the Republicans... look at my sign up date....
You dont have a clue about what my opinions or attacks on what the previous administration(s) were, so your making a judgement call based on nothing.... or just as a distraction.

And as far as both parties doing the do-do dance on us for decades, cant agree more, BUT that raises the question in my mind as well as others, Why is it that Obama and the Democrats are immune from that “Both parties” critisim category?
Nixon, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush all got hammered by the media.... Obama is "perfect" he can do no wrong even when he gets caught... theres always a rationalization reason why it isnt a bad thing.

Somehow he has got a get out of media critics card and the rules that applied for every President before him are not proper, if anyone dare question anything he says or does, your obviously a racist or hate women, hate minorities, hate “fill in the blank”, Saw the other day from "Obama tingles my leg" Matthew, used the term Grand Wizard referring to Romney... of course he later appoligized....I think they call that a Freudian slip.
AND if that were your only source of information along with Jon Stewart... I'm guessing I know what your views of things would be limited to. Thats another reason I watch several sources on the same subject to use my mind to form my opinions.

Still curious as to what source for seeking information and news you and Page use for references?
Im not as omniscient as a lot of other people are, I have to research things I dont understand or believe so Google, Youtube, news medias etc... I do use them allot over the last several years.....it keeps me from falling into a lot of traps manipulated information can get me into.....That doesnt mean I dont fall into a trap once in a while.

Anyway, you can believe the information in the clips……. Or not……. Its always a choice. Research the info to find out the truth for yourself.

[Loafer]

[Kedosto]

Thanks Loafer!

That's one bit of "bumper sticker politics" I absolutely agree with.

And like I said before, NRiderUSA, I feel sorry for you. You're being played for a fool and I guess from your own admission you're being played by both sides.

So you keep right on posting political jabs on a motorcycle forum. Whatever makes you feel better about yourself is ok by me. But untill you get the meaning behind that bumper sticker Loafer posted, well, you get to decide how you spend your time.

As for me, I'm gonna ride.

[glwilson]

Originally Posted by Kedosto

So you keep right on posting political jabs on a motorcycle forum.

You just joined this forum, and you decide political posts are not what is supposed to be done? What part of the rules don't you understand?

And be careful of calling people names (calling someone a fool IS name calling)... that will make your stay here short.

[pagemastr]

Originally Posted by glwilson

You just joined this forum, and you decide political posts are not what is supposed to be done? What part of the rules don't you understand?

And be careful of calling people names (calling someone a fool IS name calling)... that will make your stay here short.

Gene; so what, opinions about political posts in a MC forum are unwelcome now? I have been here long enough to recall the thread discussing whether or not to keep them, lots of opinions then, but for newcomers who may not have seen it... way to welcome a new member .

MHO: semantics perhaps, but suggesting someone is being played for a fool vs saying "you are a fool" is now enough to get tossed from the board. Perhaps your same logic then should apply to someone telling me I sounded like a terrorist for disagreeing with you in an earlier thread. I mean, perhaps, ahhh, well, but, I mean I didn't really call him a terrorist, but, I mean, well, he sure sounded like one... Too funny, and soooo sensitive.

I guess it all depends on whether or not you agree with the one posting... I get it now

[glwilson]

Is you life really that frustrating Page?

Not sure who Gene is...

Don't believe I said political posts were prohibited. I was just reminding the gentleman that this has been decided years ago to allow them (as you mentioned).

Secondly, I didn't want him to start calling anyone names and get into trouble. Calling someone a "fool" isn't exactly grounds; however it can lead to more.

However, thanks for reminding me of who runs the show around here.

[Kedosto]

Please, glwilson, reread my post(s) carefully.

Once you do, you'll notice I did not say he couldn't post political comments. Do I think he's trolling? Yes. Why else would someone post political commentary on a motorcycle forum? I sure hope it's ok that I post my OPINION that he's trolling.

And again, if you reread my post(s), you'll notice I didn't call him a fool either. In fact I really do feel sorry for him and those like him. He's being played for a fool by the very party he appears to support. NRiderUSA appears intelligent and articulate, yet he can't see how he's being manipulated. They're playing upon his fears and emotions and it seems to be working; he's so consumed by their rhetoric that he's posting political BS on a motorcycle forum. In fact, he's in such a frenzy that he's completely missed the fact that I stated - more than once - that I'm no fan of either party!

My message, plain and simple, is that we must stop fighting amongst ourselves, and start demanding that our elected officials start doing their jobs - STARTING WITH YOUR OWN PARTY. Sitting around getting whipped up to a frenzy by the media - LIBERAL OR RIGHT WING - is part of the problem. We don't need any more polarization, we need mutual cooperation and SOLUTIONS. Bush bashing, Obama bashing, or Mitt bashing is destructive, polarizing and an enormous waste of opportunity to find solutions. While U.S. citizens are fighting amongst ourselves, our competitors are passing us up.

And finally, please take a moment and read the disclaimer in my sig. Anything and everything I post here is OPINION. We're still allowed to have opinions, yes? And not just opinions you agree with? If not, let me know. I'll be happy to leave.

[NRiderUSA]

Plain and simple.... Obama and the Democrats are in charge and have been for quite awhile...they had free reign to do it their way from the day he took office till the people spoke and put some balance back into things.. dont need to go beyond ownership...Obama owns it, all the division, polarization, debt, joblessness etc..... the Democrats own it all right now. If the house passes it Reid wont look at it and if Reid does Obama will veto it... still have pretty much control over everything going on from what I'm seeing.

Whats my party? Dont think you have a clue, you think you do but you dont.
Plain and simple, if someone doesnt agree with Obama and the Democrats path ... They have to be "insert your choosen stereotype here", kind of narrow minded view, but blindly follow their leader seems to be the way for some.

Some seem to think pointing out what they are doing is defending someone else for some reason. said it before and one more time for those that havent been paying attention, I'm attacking policies of this administration.... not defending anything or anyone.....I dont have to.

[blowndodge]

Ok, here's my opinion:

I can't remember a time when Republican's owned all three branches and made the economy worse, increased the National debt and grew government.

I can't remember Nixon, Reagan, Bush1 and Bush2 bringing up economic issues that they blamed during their entire administration on the previous "Democratic" president.

The other day I heard that our GDP is now less than our Debt. Ask corporate american what happens when debt exceeds assets.... it's the "B" word.

Do we all drink some of our parties "koolaid"......... probably! But my koolaid comes from highly watched news organizations, not fringe left wing internet blogs...

Jessie Ventura and all the others who believe that 9/11 was an inside job are left wing extremist Obama supporters. JMO

[glwilson]

Originally Posted by Kedosto

Please, glwilson, reread my post(s) carefully.

Once you do, you'll notice I did not say he couldn't post political comments. Do I think he's trolling? Yes. Why else would someone post political commentary on a motorcycle forum? I sure hope it's ok that I post my OPINION that he's trolling.

And again, if you reread my post(s), you'll notice I didn't call him a fool either. In fact I really do feel sorry for him and those like him. He's being played for a fool by the very party he appears to support. NRiderUSA appears intelligent and articulate, yet he can't see how he's being manipulated. They're playing upon his fears and emotions and it seems to be working; he's so consumed by their rhetoric that he's posting political BS on a motorcycle forum. In fact, he's in such a frenzy that he's completely missed the fact that I stated - more than once - that I'm no fan of either party!

My message, plain and simple, is that we must stop fighting amongst ourselves, and start demanding that our elected officials start doing their jobs - STARTING WITH YOUR OWN PARTY. Sitting around getting whipped up to a frenzy by the media - LIBERAL OR RIGHT WING - is part of the problem. We don't need any more polarization, we need mutual cooperation and SOLUTIONS. Bush bashing, Obama bashing, or Mitt bashing is destructive, polarizing and an enormous waste of opportunity to find solutions. While U.S. citizens are fighting amongst ourselves, our competitors are passing us up.

And finally, please take a moment and read the disclaimer in my sig. Anything and everything I post here is OPINION. We're still allowed to have opinions, yes? And not just opinions you agree with? If not, let me know. I'll be happy to leave.

Thanks for pointing this out... I was traveling and only glanced at your post; apparently too quickly.

Regarding Rick being at "troll". He isn't. I know him. I can't speak for him, but after a while talking about tires, pipes, oil, paint, and on and on gets a bit boring.

The premise of this forum started a few years ago with a small group of people that wanted a place to "chat" about a common bike and other subjects; just as if they were sitting at a bar or someplace. Topics would be similar to what one would expect in that setting. Politics are going to be one of the topics -- especially at this critical point in our country.

Your opinion of another on this site is just that... an opinion. You believe he is spreading fear and terror without substance. I happen to see where he is going with his posts. They are merely a counter to the nonsense I see spewed about by Obama, Liberals and their media. (Remember the Ryan commercial about throwing an old-lady over a cliff? Geez... now what party is spreading fear there? And how about Obama's constant rantings from the podium with half-truths. Hell... there is a whole industry developed just to counter his half-truths. Other politicians have done the same; but it appears Obama has most of them beat lately.)

I am glad you are not for one party or another. I am not either. I dislike (deeply) most all politicians. Politicians are the ones who are directly to blame for the situation this country has gotten into. While politicians use convenient scapegoats for the recent recession; the truth is, if one digs deep enough they will find that the government (politicians) are the root of the problem.

Some have blamed corporations having too much power with politicians (giving them money for votes); however if one thinks about it... it is the politicians that have the power to make political contributions illegal... but, of course, politicians have not made that illegal. So corporations are subjected to having to "play the game" of buying-off politicians.

Corporations are not the only organization having to play the game either. Unions and other special-interest groups have to play the game also to survive. So, I am not sure why some only blame corporations. Doing so highlights their biases...

I often wonder why the liberal media (that is often quoted as a resource), doesn't run reports on Solyndra or the other "green-energy" companies that blew a billion or two of taxpayers money... and have been directly linked to Obama's political career? Where's Michael Moore on that story? He is missing his Oscar chance with that one.)

The current administration, is a peculiar one, to say the least, in that they are leaning very far to the left with their views (often interpreted as being socialistic).

There are probably more of us that agree on what some of the problems are, it mostly comes down to the approach to solving the problems as being the center of the debate.

For example; taxation is a big topic. Liberals and Obama are pushing the big "tax the rich" campaign; which helps divide this country more; but more importantly it shows they do not know their math too well. Without repeating the point ad-nauseum... you cannot tax the rich enough to get our country out of the fiscal problems we have -- no matter what. But the Liberals keep pounding that drum knowing it will help get votes (again, a problem we have with our political system. The Conservatives would do a similar approach also... so the problem isn't so much a party problem as much as a "system-problem" that isn't likely to change anytime soon.)

I know of quite a few intelligent people that foolishly voted for Obama believing his "Change" tactic. It didn't work. Instead of concentrating on more important issues, Obama and the Dems spent their time in isolation from the reality of what truly was going on in this country. That has a lot of people worried.

In addition, the current administration's lack of addressing the government's spending is scary. Instead of coming-up with a long-term plan to resolve this issue, they are providing "band-aids" as a solution. Again, this is likely because they are in fear of being voted-out of office if they offer a plan that would work.

For those that have spent the time to look at our country's spending and debt-track to growth... they are frightened; and deservedly so. As long as one looks at statistics that are not politically-doctored, they will see this country is headed for a brick wall with its debt if some serious changes do not occur.

Changes that are effective enough to address the problems are going to affect everyone in this country -- young and old. Taxes are going to go up for everyone (not just the rich -- despite what the Dems say); programs are going to get cut-back (people are going to have to depend on their own resources and efforts); some programs are going to have to be eliminated (again, people will have to take care of themselves); and lastly... our politicians favorite "pork-programs" are going to have to suffer (likely to be the last on the cutting-block!).

All in all, the democrats want the citizens to believe they can move money around (take from the rich, corporations, and businesses) (the big shuffle-game), to solve our country's problems without having anyone suffer. Those who have studied economics are most upset about this approach for various reasons beyond what most would understand.

When Paul Ryan provides a budget (based on Obama's hand-picked committee's recommendations) it includes "pain" for many... and is immediately portrayed as being "Darwinism", "a crime against the elderly", and other such nonsense. In the meantime, the Dems haven't even provided a federal budget in over three years -- (which is literally a breach of their duties).

If the Dems would have confronted this country's problems head-on... even I would have been far more happy with them. But they haven't... and we have lost three years; which is why many are not happy with Obama.

Thus the "war/debate" continues on with fever by those that know this country is at a major turning-point...

For those that take a backseat approach, I feel sorry for them -- especially when they say; "there's nothing I can do". That is part of the reason politicians have gained as much power over the people as they have. Those people are not willing to expend any time to learn, debate, argue, and fight to find out what is going on.

For those that do debate, argue, and occasionally get mad over the subject at hand... I commend them for putting up a fight, and talking about one of the "forbidden" subjects that will have a direct impact on the future. At least these people are bringing up points to look at and consider.

Pagemaster, Canedriver, NRider, and a few others on here are putting up good conversations and points that some may agree with, and others not; but at least points are being provided and exposed.

For those that think the political situation is just a game... you may someday look over your shoulder and wish you had gotten more involved rather than just let it be...

[Loafer]

I've said it before, and I say again. Like 'em or not, write to your congress people. Tell them you are upset. Maybe even offer a suggestion. hint hint