Question for Obama Haters

[canedriver]

Originally Posted by ToeJam

there is no wisdom in your comment about "Just because of past failures does it then make it ok NOT to try and address a need?"

So by your reasoning if your kids fail at something they shouldn't try?

Originally Posted by blowndodge

Changes our view? If he tried to balance the budget it would. If he quit apologizing to countries about our role in the world it would.

Healthcare trying to address a need? by who's definition is it a need? I say it's a "want" not a need. The constitution protects Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness; Not healthcare. If a person makes the decision to smoke and that leads to lung cancer and you expect "Healthcare" or "American Taxpayers" to pay for it then your really different than the way I feel.

Ummm when you work for a company for 23 years, come down with Parkinsons and be forced to retire your going to understand it is not a want but a need. I watched my father die curled in a fetal position thanks to shitty insurance companies who continued to turn down treatment or drop his insurance repeatedly due to clerical errors and some pretty shady reasoning. Visit a nursing home sometime and you will see many more in the same situation. My mother was a director of nursing for a nursing home in GA so trust me when I say my father wasn't alone in this problem.

The constitution states you have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I guess he didn't have a right to a life since his illness cost to much for the insurance he had been paying into for years. I guess liberty being defined as the power of doing, speaking, or thinking didn't apply either to that insurance company as speech therapy was one of the things they refused to cover. Hell i will end it with pursuit of happiness as the only thing the situation allowed him to pursue was pain and misery the last 6 years of his life.

Before you say well he should have died study up on parkinsins. You wouldn't wish it on your enemy.

So who steps in? Less government in your life? If it wasn't for government intervention that damn insurance company wouldn't have paid a dime.

I will address other comments at a later date. Right now I will just say the above thinking is pretty selfish and fucked in the head. That's about the nicest way I can put it as pissed as that comment made me.

[canedriver]

Originally Posted by Sin City Stan

I now know who you are. You're that kid with the stick who would whack a beehive for something to do.

hmm you must have known me as a kid. I did that a few times. Never did learn a lesson from it.

[Netnorske]

Originally Posted by glwilson

There is no such thing as a "need" to be covered by the government except for those issues limited strictly to the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

"Life" does not include taxpayers providing healthcare! That is up to the individual to provide for them self.

With the exception of our military veterans. Given their sacrifices for our country, those men and women deserve to be looked after and I have no problem with my tax dollars helping to cover them....especially wounded vets.

[ponch]

To put it plainly, we've taken what was medical insurance, which was a safety net for catastrophic illnesses that would bankrupt us, and turned it into a lavish plan that redistributes risk and wealth. Put it like this: Imagine if you insured your motorcycle or car like you like to be insured medically. Your insurance for a car would be $10,000 a year and you'd bitch and moan and because it's so expensive, now you want someone else to pickup the tab for what you wanted. Not needed, wanted.

The simple solution is to go back to a free market or somewhat free market system where people pay their doctor for doctor's visits. This puts the responsibility back with the patient and without third party payor, costs are managed by the doctor and patient. That's the way it used to be. Insurance would cover operations and injuries that would be too expensive to pay for out of pocket.

[blowndodge]

Originally Posted by canedriver

Before you say well he should have died study up on parkinsins. You wouldn't wish it on your enemy.

No but I watched my mom go through 3 craniotomies to relieve pressure from the most aggressive form of brain cancer until her head looked so disfigured it gave me nightmares. Brought her home for hospice only to change the diaper of the woman for 6 months that used to change mine.

Out of respect we determined she needed a closed casket. Yea I have no compassion whatsoever Cane....

At first I felt compassion that you had to go through what you did. right now I don't feel that way. You liberals think your pain is more important than the rest.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by canedriver

So by your reasoning if your kids fail at something they shouldn't try?




Ummm when you work for a company for 23 years, come down with Parkinsons and be forced to retire your going to understand it is not a want but a need. I watched my father die curled in a fetal position thanks to shitty insurance companies who continued to turn down treatment or drop his insurance repeatedly due to clerical errors and some pretty shady reasoning. Visit a nursing home sometime and you will see many more in the same situation. My mother was a director of nursing for a nursing home in GA so trust me when I say my father wasn't alone in this problem.

The constitution states you have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I guess he didn't have a right to a life since his illness cost to much for the insurance he had been paying into for years. I guess liberty being defined as the power of doing, speaking, or thinking didn't apply either to that insurance company as speech therapy was one of the things they refused to cover. Hell i will end it with pursuit of happiness as the only thing the situation allowed him to pursue was pain and misery the last 6 years of his life.

Before you say well he should have died study up on parkinsins. You wouldn't wish it on your enemy.

So who steps in? Less government in your life? If it wasn't for government intervention that damn insurance company wouldn't have paid a dime.

I will address other comments at a later date. Right now I will just say the above thinking is pretty selfish and fucked in the head. That's about the nicest way I can put it as pissed as that comment made me.

And if you father lived in a country whose government managed his care, do you think the outcome would have necessarily been better? In britain, they use metrics to determine if a person will get a certain level of care or care at all. Once a patient is a certain age, they are pretty much at the end of the stick. In general, if we look at patients over 70, they get much better care in this country than england. It's so bad in fact, they are floating the idea of getting rid of government run healthcare.

As far as selfish goes, I would say it's more selfish TO EXPECT others to pay your bills.

[ponch]

I have to wonder if we are at a tipping point. The Occupy idiots claim that the 1% owe them something. The tipping point is that nearly 50% of the workforce doesn't pay taxes. When you get beyond 50%, that is a majority that now expects things without paying into anything. Certainly 49% of the workforce isn't poor or in some sort of protected or preferential class.

[Sin City Stan]

OK, I will get serious now. Why is it we need insurance to pay for a doctor visit, a prescription, blood tests, etc.? Does your auto insurance pay for oil changes or brake repairs. I guess it could but what would it cost? Probably be up there with health insurance.

A couple years ago the company I work for had a significant increase for dependent coverage. The increase was the same whether it was just for your wife or a family of 10. We opted out and purchased catastrophic health insurance for my wife and pay everything else out of the pocket. It's very economical in my opinion. People pay more for cable TV than we pay for her health insurance.

I still maintain that turning the whole system upside down because 15% do not have coverage is just an excuse to exercise more Government control.

[glwilson]

Originally Posted by canedriver

I thought I threw a lit match into a gas can.

Originally Posted by canedriver

So, by your reasoning if your kids fail at something they shouldn't try?

I will address other comments at a later date. Right now I will just say the above thinking is pretty selfish and fucked in the head. That's about the nicest way I can put it as pissed as that comment made me.

First things first... one's children are not a government saddled with bureaucracy. They are individual people. A big difference. Your illogical comparison doesn't help your credibility.

Second... Look who is loosing their cool. Just like you did before in posts when no one agreed with your non-sensical logic. Looks like when people disagree with you or try to speak logically... you turn to name calling or disgusting language on a public site. You have shown a repeated history of that character trait.

Looks like a match was thrown into your gas can instead.

[Netnorske]

Originally Posted by canedriver

So by your reasoning if your kids fail at something they shouldn't try?




Ummm when you work for a company for 23 years, come down with Parkinsons and be forced to retire your going to understand it is not a want but a need. I watched my father die curled in a fetal position thanks to shitty insurance companies who continued to turn down treatment or drop his insurance repeatedly due to clerical errors and some pretty shady reasoning. Visit a nursing home sometime and you will see many more in the same situation. My mother was a director of nursing for a nursing home in GA so trust me when I say my father wasn't alone in this problem.

The constitution states you have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I guess he didn't have a right to a life since his illness cost to much for the insurance he had been paying into for years. I guess liberty being defined as the power of doing, speaking, or thinking didn't apply either to that insurance company as speech therapy was one of the things they refused to cover. Hell i will end it with pursuit of happiness as the only thing the situation allowed him to pursue was pain and misery the last 6 years of his life.

Before you say well he should have died study up on parkinsins. You wouldn't wish it on your enemy.

So who steps in? Less government in your life? If it wasn't for government intervention that damn insurance company wouldn't have paid a dime.

I will address other comments at a later date. Right now I will just say the above thinking is pretty selfish and fucked in the head. That's about the nicest way I can put it as pissed as that comment made me.

I don't think anyone denies that the healthcare system needs some "upgrading"....but the way that Congress rammed Obamacare down everyone's throats was a seedy, underhanded way to pass such large-scale legislation. If it was/is such a great idea...how come more Republicans were not on board with it? Good legislation should be bi-partisan...not simply what is best for a particular interest group. Had Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats actually cared what anyone else thought....they may actually have gotten some pretty comprehensive legislation passed that was more fully supported.

Unfortunately....pretty much everything the gov'ment gets involved with utilizing tax dollars turns into an expensive non-efficient boondoggle. Private sector entities can better manage their bottom lines while competition stirs development and keeps prices in check. Allowing Insurance Companies to compete for business across State lines also seems like a no-brainer. If they have to compete with lots of other companies nationwide instead of just the few in their neighborhoods...you can bet they will sharpen their pencils.

I too take exception to the fact that anyone who disagrees with the President regarding his policies...both foreign and domestic....get labeled as racists, extremists, haters, etc. I'm sure that President Obama is a good father and husband...he just sucks at being the President. I really thought that he would be the one to end all the race-baiting...you know...bring everyone together. Boy was I wrong....he plays that card like he has it pushed up his sleeve for just when he needs it. He does more to keep minorities in perpetual need of Gov'ment than anything to plead with them to become more independent. The dependent mentality in this country is killing our great nation...and the guilt trips the left use to keep things that way are deplorable. For every one person using food stamps responsibly, I could show you two who are not. Where is the outrage?

Contraceptives have always been available to women and fairly easy to obtain. Now all of a sudden the taxpayers need to pay for it. Give me a break! We have an Obama Justice Department that has no problem requiring you show ID to board an aircraft, but will sue to keep States from requiring a valid ID before voting. Obama needs those dependent voters to stay in power, period. If you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on Paul's support, right?

The framer's of our country and our Constitution are probably rolling over in their graves about now. The pure power grabs via recess appointments or executive orders are part and parcel of an administration out of control. Obama has not done one single thing to improve the lives of Americans. Gas prices are at record highs, unemployment is out the roof, business's are being crushed under the weight of endless regulations, yet the Fed keeps growing....all at our expense. This guys needs to go....and a serious fiscal conservative needs to come in and make some seriously hard choices if our country is going to survive in the spectacular form it was created.

At this point it doesn't really matter who drove the bus into the ditch. All that matters is who is going to pull it out, and who is going to demand that people depending on gov'ment assistance for everything quit looking to the Feds....and start looking themselves in the mirror instead....

Anyone care to know what I really think....?

[ToeJam]

Originally Posted by canedriver

So by your reasoning if your kids fail at something they shouldn't try?

If my kid previously wrecked 5 cars, I'm surely not going to hand over the keys to my 2 trillion dollar car!

[Netnorske]

Originally Posted by ToeJam

If my kid previously wrecked 5 cars, I'm surely not going to hand over the keys to my 2 trillion dollar car!

I like that.....

[canedriver]

First did the insurance pay your others bills or deny coverage for everything?

My father was only 52 when he was diagnosed so are some of you saying he didn't deserve treatment? I am not talking cure all treatment I am talking basic treatment like physical therapy. If you know anything about parkinsons you know that with therapy and meds you can live a very productive life for many years. If you deny the patient medical treatment its a fast path to wheelchair and eventual bed confinement. The entire time your body is breaking down from tremors and your toes are curling so you develop the parkinons shuffle your mind stays intact.

I don't think i deserve anything and certainly don't think he deserved anything. I KNOW he deserved more then he got from a greedy company only looking to its bottom line. They could take his premiums for years but suddenly couldn't pay for anything.

Sorry but that crap doesn't cut it. If your car insurance wouldn't pay for your bike every single one of you would freak out. Now imagine that being a 100k hospital bill instead of a 7k bike. Now take it a step farther and be told that they were not covering it either because there was a clerical error or that original dealer had closed. Who would you go to? The courts which is part of the government. Oh wait none of you are hypocrites you would just write it off to oh well that's life.

Wait it's a little different when it effects you guys. That is a sign of being selfish and a sign a bunch of you have lost a bit of humanity.

Hell talk numbers. You have what 15% of america with no insurance? Now add in those premiums your telling me that it doesnt offset the cost? Younger people do not see the dr as often so it would offset the cost of the seniors. Is it a complete wash? I don't know and neither do you but its certainly better then the system we have now. 40% plus of bankruptcies are health care related. Now what about the hospital ERs that treat dozens and in some case hundreds of uninsured patients daily because they cant refuse treatment.

I will end it with this. You guys answered my question with some pretty well thought out responses.

To the ones who think its a want and not a need? I dont wish a debilitating illness on anyone BUT if you happen to get one i hope to witness the change of heart when suddenly its a NEED.

[ponch]

Deserve has nothing to do with it and bankrupting the country over paying medical bills is nuts. Like I said, you could take every dime all working people make and it wouldn't cover the budget for the year and now you want to pile more debt on out of pity. Every person alive in this country is in debt to the government for about $48K. Think about that. We'll never get it under control as long as progressives and the DC sausage makers have their way. It's indentured servitude and a sin to put someone in debt as they come into the world. How is that for selfish?

[ToeJam]

Originally Posted by canedriver

I don't think i deserve anything and certainly don't think he deserved anything. I KNOW he deserved more then he got from a greedy company only looking to its bottom line. They could take his premiums for years but suddenly couldn't pay for anything.

Cain - though I don't think you realize it, you continue to give reasons why the feds should NOT control and run healthcare. As stated above and previously, the government stepped in as arbiter -its proper role.

But if the feds run healthcare, who will be the arbiter?