2nd Gear Slipping

[burly]

My 1999 Nomad is slipping out of 2nd gear into neutral whenever I push it at all. The Delphi Vulcan forum guys suggested it's a bent 2nd gear shift fork (which is really expensive bad news).

One fellow suggested checking the bar that connects from the shift pedal to the transmission in behind the alternator - apparently it needs to have 112 mm (plus or minus 1mm) between the two locknuts. I pulled apart everything and had a look last night, and there appears to be way less than that distance (maybe 100mm).

I wasn't able to adjust it (I could only get one lock nut loosened, and couldn't figure out how to increase the distance between the nuts), but thought I'd ask some of you very helpful people if you think this could be the problem. Or would this lead to problems with all gears?

Anyone ever adjust the spacing on this bar who could provide tips?

[Yellow Jacket]

The locknut on the rear of the shift rod is a left hand thread. You have to turn it the opposite way from normal to loosen it. Once both locknuts are loose you can turn the shift rod. Turning it one way will increase the distance while turning it the other way will decrease the distance.

Make sure that you measure at the right place.



Closeup of picture:

[macmac]

I can't help other than I don't believe you need to remove the cover because if I am correct that rod is below the cover.

Would one end or both be rust bound tight? Every so often I lay my bike down on about 6 moving blankets with the saddle bag off on the down side and lube that rod.

I can't say, but if you are in the habit of riding out 2nd gear to bounce off the rev limiter the shift fork would be my guess. A few missed shifts would do that.

Sometimes high miles will wear a fork too, but I sure hope that isn't it.

[AlabamaNomadRider]

All very interesting to me. I learn a little more each day.

[burly]

Thanks Yellow Jacket and macmac. The pictures Yellow Jacket provided were really helpful - I couldn't tell in my manual whether they were measuring from the inside or outside of the lock nuts, but the scan clearly shows outside. Outside does measure about 112 mm so it looks like the shift fork may be bent.

The previous owner must have been an animal - there's only 16K on the bike, and I drive it very gentle.

[macmac]

try lubing and then cleaning that rod with air, and if you have no air a computer screen can of air in the place of the real thing. Dust off I think it is. Lube every moving part including the shifter shaft, and tranny shaft....

This problem has been on going since motorcycles.. Always a bent 2nd gear shift fork, and it is always a difficuklt fix for a home tech. it is damnned difficult for a shop tech, but he is getting paid, and so is the shop. As an x tech I dread the idea of splitting a bike case for this.

I can and would do it for myself, but I would be hard pressed to do it for money.

Still hoping it isn't a bent fork....

[lomax]

burly...I split the case on my 99 to change out the oil pump drive gear. It is a big job. I have done a lot of work on engines over the years and was not afraid to tackle the Nomad engine. If you have some mechanical ability and a good shop manual for this engine, then splitting the case to get at the transmission should be quite doable for you. If not, its gonna cost you some bux to have a shop do it. Chances are it is a bent shift fork. Good luck with it! :)
Mike

[macmac]

Last I knew apx $1,500.00 big in labor.... at a shop rate of 70/ 80 bucks an hour...

I feel guilty charging for numbers like that.

[dogdoc]

WOW, bummer Mr. Maple. :-)

[burly]

Thanks for all the info. everyone. I really suck at mechanical tasks, so splitting the case and going in to do the fork myself just isn't an option. I've already sunk about $2,000 into my Nomad to fix leaking head gaskets and replace the POG, so another $1,500 at this point just doesn't make any sense for a 10 year old bike. I think I'll just drive it with gentle transitions through 2nd until I can't drive it anymore.

[macmac]

I wouldn't give up that easy. The first thing I would do, even if I wasn't going to spilt the case is lube that linkage up and clean it, and lube it again.

Then test ride for effect.

Next I would measure the rod 16 times! Test it for wear, and slack play. Ten I would change it length by 1/8th inch for longer, and test ride again for effect.

Then another 1/8th longer and another test ride for effect, always being able to return to the original settings..

Wear has taken place in this time and miles and so things have to be out of spec, and even if the fork is bent, it might not be bent all that bad.

The ball ends in the rod and shifter points are smaller today than as new, their sockets are bigger, the syndro dogs are smaller and where they ride is bigger, all adding up to slop not built in on purpose.

It just might be you can come to a new middle ground with a little effort.

I have on old VW Bettles which always popped out of gear, Chevy trannies with external side shaft linkage, and many other things with the sort of linkage.

Now if it turns out you can't adjust this out it tells you the fork is really bent.

I almost think that some years ago I was reading about the Judges Clutch washers and some one had figured out a way to bend a shift fork thru the case somehow...

I have no idea if i really recall that or dreamed it up, or because it worked on something else.

I once bought a bike that did this very thing, another old beater yammi. I began to tear it down and when I got a side cover holding oil back off I found a thrust washer the size of a siver dollar laying in the bottom of that case, and a head of a bolt.

What was left of the bolt was buried in the counter shaft. It was a no brainer to see that with out the thrust washer the counter shaft could move side ways.

I didn't know if that side play was enough to throw 2nd out of wack, but I bet it was.

So I cleaned up all the oil, so I could see better, plugged the engine oil drains with 'clean' rags, jammed the clutch, and gears with copper coated zinc pennies, and drilled that bolt shank out to take an E-Z out.

Once that was out I matched the head and shank together and went to the hardware store and bout another grade 8 equivlent bolt '88' Installed that, ceamed up the metal chips, used a magnet for the tiny ones, with great care pulled out the rags in the drains, since the side cover was off and the engine oil was drined as well as the separte tranny oil oil I flushed both with keroscene and waved a magnet around in the drain holes.

Assembled it all, added oils to both tbhe tranny and engine , rode it 600 miles and drained it again to find no metals worthy of worry, and it went good for years after that.

I would certainly try more things before I condemed it.

[burly]

Thanks Macmac - I needed that.

I'll try everything I can think of on the linkage.

[macmac]

If you try out the making the rod longer, you can leave which ever lock nut is harder to get loose, for that much time. I have no idea which is lefty threads, but might assume it is the harder to get at just because of Murphy's Law.

Be prepared for what ever works one way to maybe not work so well the other way, so if 2nd does happen to hold shifting down from 3rd might not work like it once did...

Use some caution since I am tinkering on the edge making these suggestions.

I am the type that can skin a cat about 40 ways given the chance. I don't like being beaten by a machine, and it doesn't happen too much.

So long as i can get a thing apart i can usually find some way to alter it to work again.

These days there is more things you can't get parts for if what ever it is isn't intended to be repaired, but i try just the same.

The way i look at it is, if it is broken, and you can't fix it , the worst case is it is still broken.

Back woods lodgic, ain't it great?