torque cones

[sharps45100]

You all say these cones fit inside of pipes. My question is there a flange that sits against the pipe flange. The reason i ask is i cut off the vance and hines brackets that bolt pipes to engine cause they were very thin and bent when torqueing to spec. I'm using the the two piece stock ones and they are thicker and barely have enough threads to tighten and torque. Extra thickness there and i wont be able to attach pipes unless i can get longer exhaust flange bolts. Anyone know if you can get longer bolts.

[mikeyger]

As vulcan e explained unless you have debaffeled or use the ultimate or similar baffle set up where you may have lost a little pressure you probaly will not notice any change. Idid not notice any loss with my vh pipes until I installed the shorter ub.

[dregier]

I have the VH Baggers without baffles (Nice and Loud) and love them this way. I put the cones in and took my ride but did not notice an improvement in low end power. I also didn't notice a drop in power when I removed the baffles.

Maybe I need to ride it harder to see? lol

[Jared]

Originally Posted by dregier

I have the VH Baggers without baffles (Nice and Loud) and love them this way. I put the cones in and took my ride but did not notice an improvement in low end power. I also didn't notice a drop in power when I removed the baffles.

Maybe I need to ride it harder to see? lol

I have removed my baffles and taken it for a ride around the block. It was very noticeable from the first twist of the wrist.

Maybe you ought to do a home brewed speed test. Pick a sign or something 1/8 of a mile down the road. Start at the same spot and gun it. When you pass the sign, check your speed, then do it again with any modifications. This will give you an idea if you really are improving in performance or not.

[mikeyger]

Utah I am glad I got mine also!How's you're new bike coming along?

[Jared]

Originally Posted by mikeyger

Utah I am glad I got mine also!How's you're new bike coming along?

I'm cutting and buffing the paint as we speak. :)

[Grump]

Originally Posted by chuckster131

Which one's of these is everyone using. I have heard some talk about these and want to get educated a bit more.

Many moons ago there was quite a bit of controversy in the Harley community about 'anti-reversion cones," which I thnk are the same thing you are talking about. White Bros used to market their 2" pipes to the evo crowd and then, when the buyers realized they had LOST Horses, were desperate to recoup their losses, so White invented these CONES to meet that need.

The biggest problem is that people didn't understand how normally aspirated big twns breathe and what their unique requirements are. There are many articles on the net about this but here is the gist of it.

The best pipes for an 80 inch motor would be 1 3/4" diameter, exactly 40" long. There would be a crossover of equal diameter as close to the heads as possible. If you diagram this set-up, what you end up with is a picture of what the HD stock pipes look like.

The reason stock pipes don't work well is because of the EPA and how they measure polution AND noise. On the HD, intake and exhaust are on the right side of the engine. It gets pretty noisy on the right side, between the SWOOSH of the intake and the BOOM BOOM of the exhaust, the biles were too noisy to pass EPA guidelines.

So, the motor company over muffled the pipes (also the intake, but that;s another story) so that they are wimpy-quiet. Most riders like a bit more throatiness in there bikes' sound, so the first mod the new owner did was to hole-saw the pipes. This was an improvement, but not enough.

Pretty soon owners are buying "Short Shots." "Long Shots." "True Duals." "Thunder Headers." "Big Guns." Pipes with ceramic "No Blue" coatings etc. The bottom line is that all this stuff is gimickry. Dragsters run shorter pipes because they're better for high RPM. The reverse is true regarding longer pipes. For the best overall riding experience, the best pipes for 80"evos are 1.75" 40" long.

Bigger engines, like 100" Kaw's, need 2" diameter pipes. Cones won't make it run better, and you can prove it on a dyno. The best pipes you'll every buy are drag pipes close to stock length, 2" dia., rig some kind of x-over if you can, then put in a small baffle in each to suit your (and your communities) tolerance for noise.

The baffles play and important part in creating a little turbulence or "Back Pressure" in your engine. Big twins run better with a small amount of back pressure.

Instead of agonizing over "cones," go buy a set of cheap drags, good heat shields, then drill a 3/16 hole thru the tail end of the pipe diametrically, then insert a bolt and nut. Your HP will go up slightly.

If in doubt, go out to the track and ask the racers what they're running. You might be surprised!

[Monkeyman]

Ok. I'm thoroughly confused now. I'm about to put some V&H on my Nomad (with a chucksters intake and TFI) and probably some UBs (maybe...probably). I've heard over and over how much the bike will improve concerning hp and torque. Now everyone's talking about needing torque cones or I'll lose what I've gained and then some. Now someone else comes along and says they're not really necessary after all.

Does anyone have a dyno sheet showing the Nomad with V&H (or Cobra, I guess) with UB, with no baffles, then with and without torque cones all compared to stock?

I don't trust the seat of the pants meter much and I certainly don't have the money to buy all these, take it to a dyno then not use some parts.

Reasonably noisy and lots of torque is what I want. What's the proven combination? :?:

[Loafer]

Now I'm confused.....

[ringadingh]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

Ok. I'm thoroughly confused now. I'm about to put some V&H on my Nomad (with a chucksters intake and TFI) and probably some UBs (maybe...probably). I've heard over and over how much the bike will improve concerning hp and torque. Now everyone's talking about needing torque cones or I'll lose what I've gained and then some. Now someone else comes along and says they're not really necessary after all.

Does anyone have a dyno sheet showing the Nomad with V&H (or Cobra, I guess) with UB, with no baffles, then with and without torque cones all compared to stock?

I don't trust the seat of the pants meter much and I certainly don't have the money to buy all these, take it to a dyno then not use some parts.

Reasonably noisy and lots of torque is what I want. What's the proven combination? :?:

Torque cones are not very expensive, you could try a pair and see how you like them. If it was me Id just stick with the V&H pipes and perhaps add the Ultimate Baffles if you want more noise, or shorten the stock baffles.

[Monkeyman]

More than noise for noise sake. I want a louder, throatier sound but I don't want to lose power. I'd like to make more power/torque (which is why I'm also spending the $$ for chucksters intake).

I don't mind trying a pair of torque cones but I hear conflicting stories (in this thread alone) about their necessity. I can't see spending the time and money if they really don't do anything. On the other hand, if they'll increase torque (or bring back the torque I should have had with the aftermarket pipes/intake), I'm all in.

[andyvh1959]

Old thread, but some really good discussion. Especially the discussion about how a big v-twin breathes and the optimum pipe length for performance. A lot of people mod the exhaust and intake and then complain about "lost power", or more accurately, lost torque. However, the torque is not "lost". Actually, the torque is still there, but at a different RPM (usually higher engine RPM). Since very few riders routinely ride their big v-twins at higher RPM the engine feels weaker. However, WHERE the engine makes the best power in the RPM range is what has changed. Low restriction, easier breathing exhaust makes more power (in general) at high mid-range to high engine RPM, like a drag bike. Exhaust tuned to make real usable, street riding power, make more torque at the common every day engine speeds like 2,000 to 4,000 RPM. IF you do most of your riding in that engine speed range you want an intake/exhaust system set up to make max torque in the 2,000 to 4,000 RPM range.

The "shape" of the torque curve is as important as how much max torque the engine makes. If the torque maxes at about 2500 RPM and then the torque curve is flat or barely decreasinf with more engine RPM, that engine will feel strong at almost any every day riding engine speed. Even if the torque curve is a bit lower at 2500 rpm with a modified exhaust (versus stock exhaust), but the torque curve is nearly flat to steadily increasing with engine speed, that engine will also feel strong as the engine speed is increased.

[mbarr10]

Old thread, but some really good discussion. Especially the discussion about how a big v-twin breathes and the optimum pipe length for performance.

Thank You "andyvh1959" Thank you for looking back in the posts.
Old, is still relevant. So I tell myself, every morning
And Old posts still hold answers for todays issues. I tried to read all posts when I first joined, way back in time to the first 1700 posts. I wanted a good back ground of information about my new bike.