Ethanol in gas

[Top Cat]

It is my understanding that Ethanol is worse on a bike with a carberator.
I have a Drifter that has a carberator. Do you think I need to use an additive to counteract the Ethanol? If so, what would you reccomend? I know there are a lot of snowmobiles with carberators blowing up motors here lately.

[Cajunrider]

TC, I don't think the 10% ethanol will "blow up" an engine. It will reduce efficiency and clog your fuel filter with crud it dissolves in the fuel system. I filled my Nomad yesterday with ethanol free Conoco 87 octane gasoline to see just what difference it will make. It looks like I did go a little further than normal on the first bar. I didn't notice much difference in the performance or idle though. I'll run a couple of tanks through it just to satisfy my curiosity. I paid 26 cents/gallon more for this pure gasoline. It had better deliver.

[AlabamaNomadRider]

Some older engines have had a problem with the ethanol disolving gaskets and things like that. New engines should be able to handle it. I hardly ever purchase gas with ethanol. It is getting harder to find just pure gas. Especially after the government is giving ethanol producers a bunch of our money to continue producing it.

[tbmmbt]

The EPA has just changed their minds and now they say it will be ok to put up to a 15% ethanol mix in gas. Wonder if that will change anything for the worse?

[ringadingh]

Ethanol gas won't blow up a motor itself but its hard on some of the rubber components in fuel tanks, carbs etc. especially on older small engines. When these parts dissentigrate they will cause your motor to stop or not run right.
Just last night I seen a commercial on TV advertising a new product from Stabil just for this reason. Its a fuel additive that supposedly stops the harmful effects of ethanol fuel.

[AlabamaNomadRider]

Thanks for the tip Steve, I will have to be on the lookout for it. Stabil is a good product hopefully the new product will be as good.

I,too, read about the increase to 15% ethanol. This reminds me if years ago the Feds mandated all vehicles run on unleaded fuel. The only unleaded our there at the time was 87 octane. Cars and trucks knocked, pinged, etc, and just plain wouldn't run right on it, because the engines weren't tuned for it. It took years before vehicles would finally run problem free on 87. My point is that these pencil pushers mandate this stuff without a clue as to it's effects. We are left to deal with the fallout.

[Top Cat]

As a side note they say it is OK to run 15% in your cars and trucks but it should not be run in motorcycles,lawn mowers snow blowers and small engines.
What a crock of sh*t. This country is getting real messed up.

[ndbigfish]

Tim this may be what is happening: A major problem is Phase Separation created when water gets into the fuel causing the water/ethanol mixture to sink to the bottom of the tank where the fuel pick-up is. Engines cannot run on an alcohol/water blend and will seize. Two cycle engines particularly have this problem since the proper lubricant will not be present in the gasoline. While a properly formulated additive may prevent the separation by removing excess water, it will not cure the problem once it exists. The best defense is to keep the tank as full as possible. Moisture condenses in the empty space in the tank, so reducing the amount of air in the tank reduces the amount of water that can enter. (source article at Sta-bil website)

I have tried the (blue) Sta-bil for ethanol fuel; it is expensive. I just use MMO in my motors on every fill-up. Worked good in my carb bikes I've had too.

I have a friend that just recently found out about the joys of ethanol fuel; always buying it from the same giant retainer. He just spent $300 to have the injectors cleaned, fuel filter replaced and the throttle body cleaned on his truck. All this on a three year truck with 16K miles on it. Oh he also got a new battery...my bad; surely a better deal now. He could have bought a lot of fuel treatment for $300.

Stabil link: http://www.goldeagle.com/products/product3CC6.aspx
More reading:
http://www.goldeagle.com/engine_care/411onethanol.aspx

[Top Cat]

Originally Posted by ndbigfish

Tim this may be what is happening: A major problem is Phase Separation created when water gets into the fuel causing the water/ethanol mixture to sink to the bottom of the tank where the fuel pick-up is. Engines cannot run on an alcohol/water blend and will seize. Two cycle engines particularly have this problem since the proper lubricant will not be present in the gasoline. While a properly formulated additive may prevent the separation by removing excess water, it will not cure the problem once it exists. The best defense is to keep the tank as full as possible. Moisture condenses in the empty space in the tank, so reducing the amount of air in the tank reduces the amount of water that can enter. (source article at Sta-bil website)

I have tried the (blue) Sta-bil for ethanol fuel; it is expensive. I just use MMO in my motors on every fill-up. Worked good in my carb bikes I've had too.

I have a friend that just recently found out about the joys of ethanol fuel; always buying it from the same giant retainer. He just spent $300 to have the injectors cleaned, fuel filter replaced and the throttle body cleaned on his truck. All this on a three year truck with 16K miles on it. Oh he also got a new battery...my bad; surely a better deal now. He could have bought a lot of fuel treatment for $300.

Stabil link: http://www.goldeagle.com/products/product3CC6.aspx
More reading:
http://www.goldeagle.com/engine_care/411onethanol.aspx

nobigfish, my brother in law is big time into snowmobiling. Last week he saw and heard about lots of engines seize. I'm talkin' sleds broke down side the trail.
This is why I'm lookin' for info. I don't want my Drifter which has a carberator to seize.
My brother in law uses Klotz octane booster in his machines.

[ringadingh]

I seen the Stabil Ethanol commercial while watching Barrett Jackson on Speed Channel. I;ll try to pay closer attention to it next time I see it.

[timebandit]

I run ethanol in all of my machines.

I keep the tanks always filled to the max when not using. Just got this habit of filling up when finished using so next time I want to use the machine it is ready to go.

The only time I do not use ethanol is when I can't get it at the fill up station I'm at or when I plan on not using the machine for a prolong period of time, re: more then a month/winter storage, then I fill up with premium.

I've been doing this for as long as I can remember that ethanol was available.

I use to race with Alcohol powered big block engines, now that is murder on rubber parts!

[nomadtom69]

The treatment is called Marine Stai-built I talked to guy at the Panama City Beach Bike week they recommend the marine type and 104 octane for the older bikes and just the stai built in newer ones when the ethanol is in the gas

[ponch]

I've never heard of 4 stroke engines seizing from have water in the gas. I do know that ethanol is corrosive and will screw up a fuel system not designed for it. It is harder on carbureted engines as it can or will screw up the float over time. If you have a bike with a carb, use non-ethanol fuel if you can. I made the mistake of getting the ethanol in my 800 Classic. I ended up leaving it at a friends house and when I drained the carb, water ho. Never again.

Even with the beemer, they manual says it will run on it, but they strongly suggest top tier straight fuel. It's almost impossible to find it in Iowa, land of ethanol.

Originally Posted by ndbigfish

Tim this may be what is happening: A major problem is Phase Separation created when water gets into the fuel causing the water/ethanol mixture to sink to the bottom of the tank where the fuel pick-up is. Engines cannot run on an alcohol/water blend and will seize. Two cycle engines particularly have this problem since the proper lubricant will not be present in the gasoline. While a properly formulated additive may prevent the separation by removing excess water, it will not cure the problem once it exists. The best defense is to keep the tank as full as possible. Moisture condenses in the empty space in the tank, so reducing the amount of air in the tank reduces the amount of water that can enter. (source article at Sta-bil website)

I have tried the (blue) Sta-bil for ethanol fuel; it is expensive. I just use MMO in my motors on every fill-up. Worked good in my carb bikes I've had too.

I have a friend that just recently found out about the joys of ethanol fuel; always buying it from the same giant retainer. He just spent $300 to have the injectors cleaned, fuel filter replaced and the throttle body cleaned on his truck. All this on a three year truck with 16K miles on it. Oh he also got a new battery...my bad; surely a better deal now. He could have bought a lot of fuel treatment for $300.

Stabil link: http://www.goldeagle.com/products/product3CC6.aspx
More reading:
http://www.goldeagle.com/engine_care/411onethanol.aspx

[cnc]

TC, Due to the nature of a 2 cycle snowmobile engine ethanol can be harder on them. the main reason is oil is injected directly into the crank case and must circulate through the engine with the gas to lubricate it. Ethanol is known to strips away the oils ability to bond it's self to metal engine parts. Ethanol has been said to break down faster than non ethanol gas, as short as 30 days, leaving behind varnish that gums up jets in the carbs. This can be deadly in a two cycle and a sure way to burn a hole in a piston from running lean, but to be fair it can just as easily happen with non ethanol gas and poor storage/ maintenance habits. Ethanol is also said to attract moisture which if it freezes in the carbs can cause the same damaging lean conditions.
Up here we still have a choice and can get non ethanol gas everywhere, and I believe there must be a sticker on the pump if it contains ethanol. I will not put that stuff in any of my snowmobiles if I can help it. I would expect that late model bikes, carbed or fuel injected use O rings and seals made to withstand ethanol, which was not the case in the past. You still have to be concerned about fuel break down and gumming up, so if it was me, I would use sea foam every once and a while during the season and seek out Non ethanol fuel to fill up both bikes just before storage and use stabil.