In my quest to make bike handle as best as it can!

[Dieago62]

Ok so long story on the front wobble. I bought Vaquero with 12000 or so miles and the front end was wobbly so I have torn front end down several times Ive aligned front forks balanced new tire and wheel worked on brake drag new head and wheel bearings changed fork oil and filled with 15wt aligned rear and front as best I can get. Now it handles very well and corners way better and can run for miles hand less if wanted but there is a ever so light vibration in steering with a loose grip. upon checking I found there is a little looseness in front fork tubes so I ordered new upper and lower bushings and seals today and guess what! They are on back order! Hummmm I wonder just wonder LOL I bet this will eliminate all rest of problems I betcha! Yea I'm picky very picky I want it better than perfect. If you've ever rebuilt forks you know the bushings I speak of. I should have ordered them long time ago I knew they were worn because the old fork oil looked metallic but I put it off.

[Snake Ranch]

Originally Posted by Dieago62

Ok so long story on the front wobble. I bought Vaquero with 12000 or so miles and the front end was wobbly so I have torn front end down several times Ive aligned front forks balanced new tire and wheel worked on brake drag new head and wheel bearings changed fork oil and filled with 15wt aligned rear and front as best I can get. Now it handles very well and corners way better and can run for miles hand less if wanted but there is a ever so light vibration in steering with a loose grip. upon checking I found there is a little looseness in front fork tubes so I ordered new upper and lower bushings and seals today and guess what! They are on back order! Hummmm I wonder just wonder LOL I bet this will eliminate all rest of problems I betcha! Yea I'm picky very picky I want it better than perfect. If you've ever rebuilt forks you know the bushings I speak of. I should have ordered them long time ago I knew they were worn because the old fork oil looked metallic but I put it off.

That metallic look in the oil can be from the fork springs rubbing the inside of the fork tubes. Then these metal flakes can wear your bushings. To correct this you need to polish the outside diameter of the springs. They are shot peened and will be a little rough.

[Chuck A.]

I have never been in the forks yet but am about to venture into it. I replace both tires this week, Michelin with Michelins, and drained and refilled the airshocks with 15w fork oil. The bike fills free in the rear in corners but is tracking really good and turning well on the curvy backroads. I have Progressive 11-1126 springs on order for the forks. Gonna grease the head bearing and do the fork fluid soon so might as well do the springs will I'm in there. This will have all fluids on the bike changed this year.

Oh, what I was gonna say to start with, the new tires always gets the wobble out of mine until I cup the rear tire riding the curves to hard.

[Snake Ranch]

Originally Posted by Dieago62

Ok so long story on the front wobble. I bought Vaquero with 12000 or so miles and the front end was wobbly so I have torn front end down several times Ive aligned front forks balanced new tire and wheel worked on brake drag new head and wheel bearings changed fork oil and filled with 15wt aligned rear and front as best I can get. Now it handles very well and corners way better and can run for miles hand less if wanted but there is a ever so light vibration in steering with a loose grip. upon checking I found there is a little looseness in front fork tubes so I ordered new upper and lower bushings and seals today and guess what! They are on back order! Hummmm I wonder just wonder LOL I bet this will eliminate all rest of problems I betcha! Yea I'm picky very picky I want it better than perfect. If you've ever rebuilt forks you know the bushings I speak of. I should have ordered them long time ago I knew they were worn because the old fork oil looked metallic but I put it off.

Some thoughts on the ghost wobble, at least some more things to check while you have your skoot apart. I hate having to take something back apart because I didn't find the root cause the first time. It saves time getting it correct the first time around.

®

Shucking the Shakes
Revised Assumptions can be dangerous. We assume for example that because no one has ever darted across five lanes of traffic in front of us that no one ever will. Until it happens. We presume on the future. We engage in blase acceptance of the status quo. But as the saying goes, we live and learn. Similarly, assuming that the tired old method of checking steering bearings -- you know, by jacking up the front end and grabbing the fork to feel for play -- is valid for use on modern motorcycles, is also dangerous. Because it isn't.
Sooner or later, all the larger late model Hondas and Yamahas develop a problem with the steering bearings that results in a head shake when decelerating rapidly from 50 mph and less. For want of a better term, we'll call it a "deceleration wobble."
There is a rule in motorcycle suspension technology which says that problems in handling that occur under 450 mph are due to defects in front of the steering head, while those occuring at higher speeds are found in causes aft of the steering. It's a tried and true rule of thumb, and a decel wobble obeys the pattern. Many things can cause weaves and wobbles, whether on acceleration or deceleration -- tire wear is especially critical. But decel wobbles have their own special causes, and if the front tire isn't excessively worn or the wheel badly out of balance, the cause is almost always the steering bearings. But we're not talking looseness. We're talking about something that is not addressed in any service manuals, factory or aftermarket. Whether because the frame is made of soft material or what, the steering bearing races in many large Japanese bikes "walk" in the frame. That is, they shift in their recesses and become out of square with the steering stem, and out of parallel with each other.

The cause of the classic decel wobble is bearing races that have "floated." The resulting non-parallelness sets up torque forces in the steering which manifest themselves as attempts by the fork to correct itself, with the result: shimmy, shimmy. Again, the problem isn't looseness. Mere tightening often fails to correct the problem.
The following procedure is one circulated by American Honda's District Service Reps back in the day. Though never published, this is based on the above premise, and rooted in a procedure found in Honda Service Letter #126, a document explaining the need to fully seat replacement bearings. Though the technique originated for replacement bearings, it is valid for all originally-installed steering bearings as well. Three tools are needed: a torque wrench, the special factory steering bearing nut socket (Honda's is part # 07916-3710100), and a good quality tubular 0-10 lb. spring scale. A floor jack or something similar to jack the front of the motorcycle off the floor will be handy, too.

Most Japaneses bikes have both a tensioning nut and a locknut. The early GL1000 is an exception. Follow your manual's instructions for removing the top triple clamp (Honda calls this a "bridge"), so that the pair of special castlelated nuts becomes accessible. The upper one is just a locknut. Remove it and set it aside, along with the special washer. Jack the front end up off the floor, and feel the bearings as you turn the bars each side from center. If the bearings are notchy or the front end has a self-centering action, the bearings need to be replaced, no second-guessing here. After replacing them if necessary, continue. Get the front end off the floor. Turn the fork to full right lock, and with the torque wrench and special socket, tighten the bearings to 40-50 ft-lbs. The fork will be very stiff. Don't panic. It's only temporary. Now turn the fork lock-to-lock, repeatedly, at least twenty times. You will probably notice something interesting: that ridiculously high tension will loosen up; the bearings will get looser, indicating that they have squared up and settled into the frame. In some cases, you won't be able to tell, but even if you don't notice the bearings loosening up, proceed. Turn the fork to full left lock now and loosen the nut until it's just finger tight, then turn the fork to the right lock again and tighten it to 7-10 ft/lbs.
The spring scale method is far and away the best, and for some time has been recommended by Honda. Attach your spring scale onto one fork tube, using a piece of shoestring or something similarly soft so as not to scratch the tube. With the fork assembly pointed straight ahead and the tire off the floor, slowly pull the spring scale straight ahead until the tip of the fender arcs about one inch. Note the poundage. You're looking for a 5-7 lb. pull. Five for motorcycles under 600 lbs., more for heavier machines and those with fairings. Tighten the tensioning nut as needed, a little at a time, and check with the spring scale.

After adjusting, drop the special washer back into place, and screw on the locknut, but don't tighten it. Though you probably found the locknut jammed against the tensioning nut, that's not the correct way to install it. It should be close to the tensioning nut, but not jammed against it. Leave a little space -- about 0.020". Then bend the locktabs into the locknut to keep the two interlocked. The locknut's job is to isolate the torque of the bridge nut from the steering bearings. Reassemble the rest of the fork per the manual. If a test ride reveals that there is still a decel wobble, or the bike sways side to side like a rowboat (the bearings are too tight), readjust to higher or lower spec as needed. Ride safely.
Postscript 2013: The special Honda socket has long been unavailable now. It is not really feasible to do this procedure without the socket, as very few hook wrenches permit the amount of force required. But you might succeed at that. A few have reported that the socket is being reproduced on the aftermarket, and I have seen on on eBay. There may still be a few stock ones at dealers too. Try this link, and this one.


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© 1996-2015 Mike Nixon

[Dieago62]

Mine no longer has any wobble what so ever just a ever ever so slight shimmy and only when hands free nothing that is scary at all but there is some looseness slack in fork tubes with front end off ground and I'm sure bushings will correct this but they are on back order. Seems odd to me mine are worn and they are on back order tells me they have probably replaced a many of them across the country

[Dieago62]

Originally Posted by Chuck A.

I have never been in the forks yet but am about to venture into it. I replace both tires this week, Michelin with Michelins, and drained and refilled the airshocks with 15w fork oil. The bike fills free in the rear in corners but is tracking really good and turning well on the curvy backroads. I have Progressive 11-1126 springs on order for the forks. Gonna grease the head bearing and do the fork fluid soon so might as well do the springs will I'm in there. This will have all fluids on the bike changed this year.

Oh, what I was gonna say to start with, the new tires always gets the wobble out of mine until I cup the rear tire riding the curves to hard.

I did notice the stock front springs are progressive springs. Not progressive brand just progressive type

[smokey]

Originally Posted by Dieago62

I did notice the stock front springs are progressive springs. Not progressive brand just progressive type

did mine with the race tech and also put in the emulators, I will also disagree with a statement made that if the steering centres it indicates bad bearing, at least on the voyager as the steering self centres regardless, I put new tapered in mine and it still came back to centre, may be just a trait of the voyager, but that is the way it is with mine, and that was after doing the tightening until stiff then backing of slightly until fee movement, and I have done a few steering head bearing replacements in the numerous bikes I have had, I thought it was weird but when it did it with the new bearings just put it down to the way it is with this bike.

[Dieago62]

Originally Posted by smokey

did mine with the race tech and also put in the emulators, I will also disagree with a statement made that if the steering centres it indicates bad bearing, at least on the voyager as the steering self centres regardless, I put new tapered in mine and it still came back to centre, may be just a trait of the voyager, but that is the way it is with mine, and that was after doing the tightening until stiff then backing of slightly until fee movement, and I have done a few steering head bearing replacements in the numerous bikes I have had, I thought it was weird but when it did it with the new bearings just put it down to the way it is with this bike.

You are 100% correct Almost! kind of lol! If you totally remove the bars and cables where nothing is on forks it will not self center . Mine self centered but when I removed bars for painting and removed disc brake line and everything that touched forks it would not.
I replaced bearing years ago on a 650 that self centered and bearing race had a divit in it it rode like a rodeo horse! If ot self centers because of bearings it is bad