Quick photo comparison of Mean Streak pistons 1500vs.1600

[andyvh1959]

Yes, I got the engine specs right from the Kawasaki factory manual. Thanks for the clarity on the easrly years 1500 MS pistons. I'm anxious to hear your results on the 1600 engine you are working on.

I'm slightly off on the BMW 1200 power. The 2014 BMW R1200RT makes 120hp, my 2007 R1200RT makes 110hp. Either BMW spins a lot faster than my VN1600 Classic to make that power. It makes 100hp starting at 6,000 rpm up to 110hp at 8,000 rpm. Makes 75 ft-lb of torque from 4,500 rpm, increasing up to 80 ft-lb right up to 7,000 rpm. The HP and torque curves both angle up from 4,500 to 7,000 making it feel strong over a broad rev range. As anyone who has ridden the big BMW 1200 twin knows, these things love to rev high easily. It'll do it all day for hundreds of miles.

The VN1600 is a typical older big V-twin, lots of torque but much lower revs. The stock 1600 makes over 90 ft-lb of torque at only 2,700 rpm, and only 65hp at 4,700 rpm. The 1600 is done making power right when the BMW 1200 is starting the real power. Anyone who has ridden the VN1600 knows that 4,000 rpm is plenty high, the power drops off a lot above 4,000 rpm. With some intake and exhaust changes the 1600 can make some additional power beyond 4,000 rpm. The BMW 1200 and the Kawwy 1600 are totally different beasts engine and power wise.

But the "feel" of a big V-twin at the lower revs is what makes them desirable. That easy going thumping feel is relaxing to me. On my BMW I feel like I have to attack with the power at the higher revs. On the VN1600 I feel like I can relax with the power at the lower revs. If the 1600 could rev a bit quicker, to a bit higher rpm would be great. I recently did a 200 mile test ride of an Indian Challenger 1800. HOLY CRAP! 128 ft-lb of torque with 122hp. Even with 900 lbs of bike it loved to spin up.

So my goal on my 1600 build is to improve the power and torque, and while it will not be near the Challenger type of power, I think I can keep the wieght to just under 800 lbs, and create a bike with a decent power to weight ratio.

[andyvh1959]

So with a bit of internet digging, I found a picture of 2001 Mean Streak pistons, and they ARE a lot different than the 1600 Classic pistons. The 1600 psitons are dished, no valve clearance notches. The 2001 MS pistons are slightly crowned and have valve clearance notches, like the pistons for the VN1700. So the early Mean Streak pistons are clearly a higher compression style than the later 1600 pistons.

[Mechaniac]

Cool, I am glad we have that figured out. For the record, there must be two different versions of the 1500 MS high compression piston. The pics that I posted in the beginning are of the two different pistons. The dished one is a 1600 MS style while the slightly flatter one is a 1500 MS style that I planned to use. Maybe look closer and see it's two different domes? That's why we're here.

Still waiting to hear from Ray what he finds out about my build. Evidently one of my 1600 jugs has a scored sleeve, it had to have been when I put the 1500 piston in it to send out to him, the rings had carbon behind them and were hard to get into the sleeve. I used a ring compressor but no love. FYI the only difference between the 1500 and 1600 jugs is a slightly longer sleeve that goes down into the crankcase about 2.5 mm on the 1600. I needed extra 1600 jugs and the 1500 pistons, so I ended up with four of jugs and pistons shopping Ebay.

He decided to see what it would cost to make higher compression pistons in an overbore since this sleeve would have to be bored or replaced.

He's busy but still working.

Vernon

[andyvh1959]

Now I'm tempted to shop for a set of 2001 Mean Streak 1500 pistons. Especially to compare them to the set of 1700 pistons I already have, which look very similar on the top to the early version 1500 MS pistons. Anxious to read about your build results as that will guide my eventual build of my 1600 engine when I dig into it to repair the 2nd gear issue.

[RACNRAY]

Just had a long talk with @Mechaniac and was alerted to the latest posts here. BTW the scoring in the sleeve is VERY bad and the skirt on that piston is not happy. I wonder if the original 1600 piston from that cyl is scored as the damage on the sleeve looks like piston scuffing when previous running.

Between my local Kawi dealer AND Partzilla there was NO 1500 M/S for 2001 in the USA. I did find an online site MCS that lists the M/S for 2001 but the url is South African, there may have been a 2001 overseas but not here in the USA.

I can see in the above pic of the cyl's and pistons the domes look NOTHING like the pistons I have here, and Kawi is VERY good in detailing the pics to look accurate and not one piston from the 1500/1600 series has a dome similar on the Kawi parts sites. I wonder what they are actually from, maybe there was a 2001 in other countries.

RACNRAY

[andyvh1959]

Right about the Kawasaki manual diagrams that accurately show how the parts should look. For that photo of the MS pistons I just did an Ebay search and it came right up. Now of course I can't find it on Ebay.

[Mechaniac]

I came across some pistons, we'll see if they can work.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/295504063097

Vernon

[RACNRAY]

Originally Posted by Mechaniac

I came across some pistons, we'll see if they can work.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/295504063097

Vernon

I had to do sum measuring and a few fone calls, I sourced rings and wrist pin clips. The heads r DONE and the cylinders should be arriving next week. I am excited as I put ALOT of werk into those heads, NOT just a fluff n buff clean up!

RACNRAY

[andyvh1959]

Oh boy oh boy oh boy, can't wait to hear the results.

[andyvh1959]

I came across this webpage on engine building and it has loads of engine design and building details that relate to our discussion here:

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/202...length-matter/

In my case, if I find the VN1700 pistons will fit in my 1600 and if I can get the right piston pin to deck hieght like mentioned in the link, it may be possible to bump the compression.

[andyvh1959]

Saw your reply to Mick56 on our other posts about finding a decent shop. He sure is a good bit of a burr inyour shorts. Comments there, like comments in this thread, just to stir the angst rather than usefull commentary.

I read him as a Brit version of the guy at the end of the bar bellowing "what tha F you doing any of that for, aint gonna get you anything!" Like he said above in this thread about what the raised compression is going to do. Well, based on his reply I'd say he knows little about the discussion, so he just has to shoot holes in it.

I'm still hopeful to get more fun out of my 1600 build project with the right combo of parts. Funny too, I am planning a similar project building a 56 Dodge pickup into a fun daily driver. For that build I'm using my 2001 Dakota as the donor chassis under the 56, and I plan to use a remanned 4.7HO V8 with some basic intake/exhaust mods I hope to acheive a reliable 325 hp at the crank. All the discussion we've had regarding how the engines make power is also relative to what I plan for my 56 pickup project.

UPDATE: my truck engine plans have changed. Found out its possible, with Mopar factory parts, and Keith Black pistons, to get near 400hp and 388 ft-lb torque from a 5.2 Magnum engine. LOTS more aftermarket goody choices like long tube headers, intakes, etc. AND the best part is the 5.2 can connect to the 8-spd auto trans from a Charger, lots better ratios and double overdrive for highway cruising.