Scraping the floorboards, do you?

[Todd]

Occasionally I scrape mine. Seem to never get used to it.

[dantama]

Originally Posted by billmac

(my)... experience and opinion, that motorcycles can lose traction when leaned too far.

I would certainly value your experience and opinion, and would love learn some parking lot practice with you.

Because I ride quite aggressively, and have never lost traction due to leaning, neither has anyone that I've ridden with and had a relationship with, I'm curious to know when it has happened to you.

This isn't a challenge to you, I'm open to new information and would like to know how it happened to you. What were you riding, what was the pavement like, what did you determine the loss of traction was due to?

I'm surmising that whatever time it happened to you, you had been leaned that far previously without incident.....what was different that time?

[dantama]

Here is the technical scientific type answer to losing traction in a corner. It's from that curmudgeon motorcycle expert James Davis.


The bike will lose traction when the lateral force (call it centrifugal) exceeds the traction available and that, in turn, is a function of the tire's rubber compound, the road surface and the weight on the tire.

Again, assuming the same tire and same roadway, traction is not a function of brand, or bike design. So, at what point does a tire begin to slide? At the speed and radius of a turn where the centrifugal force is slightly higher than 1g (essentially it is a function of how good the tire is.)

When does a bike have 1g of lateral force? When the bike is leaned over at 45 degrees.

Thus, the answer to your question is: any bike that has hard parts that touch the ground when it is leaning at 45 degrees (or less) will do so INSTEAD OF losing traction in a turn (assuming good tires and good roadway surface) while bikes that must lean more than 45 degrees before hard parts touch the ground will lose traction INSTEAD OF 'dragging a peg'. Of course once you start hitting the ground with hard parts (that don't fold away from the impact) you are THEN likely to lose traction and wipe-out.


Paying close attention to this phrase, and the gist of his explanation: "any bike that has hard parts that touch the ground when it is leaning at 45 degrees (or less) will do so INSTEAD OF losing traction in a turn (assuming good tires and good roadway surface) "

Our bike can't lean 45 degrees, so absent problems with traction due to road surface (as I stated in my first claim about road surface) it is highly unlikely that we can lose traction from leaning prior to hard parts levering the rear tire off the road.

I didn't want it to be just my opinion from 1,000's of corners at high speed, boards scraping, and never losing traction to try to sway opinion here. I wanted to find more reliable and repeatable data to base the claims on.

[johnb]

I have a couple of times when I have taken a highway cloverleaf aggressively. Otherwise, the only time I intentionally do it is slow parking lot practice.

[unwind2]

Only once while making a left onto an interstate on ramp. Surprised me but didn't actually scare me..just kinda...what? Oh..okay.

[Idaho]

Yep, several times a week.

[jussmatt]

I scrape pretty frequently.... sometimes I do it on purpose...but to be honest, most of the time it catches me off guard and freaks me out!! LOL!

[VulcanE]

Like Misunderstood, "Have a few times on the Dragon ", used to do it fairly often with the stock Stones. First time scared the $#!^ out of me before I realized what it was. Since going to the 180/70-16 rear tire, the boards don't scrap as soon as it did with the Stones. Back in the day, I used to scrap my pipes on an LTD 1000 I had.

[bosko]

Originally Posted by VulcanE

Back in the day, I used to scrap my pipes on an LTD 1000 I had.

LOL. Back in the day I used to scrap my pipes on an 700 Madura I had, and handle bar ends, mirriors, gas tank, etc. LOL


Thought I'd add that back in the day when I was testing the outer limits of traction ::) That nearly all low side get-offs were caused by sand or gravel on the surface of the pavement. Well that and going to fast.

[landman]

not on the nomad but i have a few times on other cruisers.

[rksaw]

I enjoy getting close to that point where you scrape the floorboards, but hate the sound (I wish my bike had those lead inserts)...I would like to get the Titanium bolts more for the sound than the sparks, but then maybe I would be getting into some bad habits.

dan, I really appreciate your insight. Are you dragging your floor board in your last sig pic? It looks really close to 45 degrees (maybe slightly less) I guess no road surface is ever 100% perfect. If you hit a patch of gravel I'm sure it would take less than 45 deg to loose traction. The times I have dragged a board I never felt like I was going to lever a tire. Even though the boards don't fold up very far they do fold some which will naturally allow an increased lean angle. I remember a thread several months back where a member wrote that they went beyond scraping the floor boards and started scraping the frame. I had a friend lever a tire in big cottonwood canyon. He didn't wreck but he said he was leaned over to the left the peg started scraping and then the back tire hopped off the ground, fishtailed toward the right and then it landed and kind of threw him off course. I know sport bikes lean more than 45 and they usually don't loose traction unless they goose it too hard comming out of a turn, but even then they don't always wreck its more of a drift.

[b2]

I have scrapped 4-5 times. First time really got my attention !

2nd & 3rd times I was more or less expecting it... tight corners with a raised section of road near the corner apex.

4th & 5th times I was riding not that fast, but pushing through the corners to try and learn by instinct just how far it takes to scrape.. on about 30 attempts I only touched twice. Still need to work on it.

I agree with other comments about blind corners etc.. my scrapes have been on what I would call "safe" corners, with good surface, no traffic and good sight-line. Of course that doesn't make it safe.. and I take most corners very carefully.

I feel for me that its something I want to know, so that I know how much i can push the bike in an emergency.. just like knowing how much front brake I can pull before locking and likewise the rear.

I have mastered the rear (the easy one), but not got the guts yet to get that kind of feel with the front.. need to do it under guidance at MSF cource I think.

I'd really like to have that kind of confidence and feel in the wet too.. not going to happen soon. I ride like a girl in the wet.

(no offence to any ladies reading, that probably ride faster than me in the wet !)

My excuse is that I lived in Australia, and we have had a drought for about 400 years (or so it seems) and now I'm in SoCal for 2 years and its rained like 4 times.. so I'm had very litte wet riding experience.. kind of like to keep it that way, but would also like to be confident if I get stuck out in the wet one day, which is bound to happen.

Brian

You be the judge. The picture is a perfect square and the black line represents a 45 degree. I had to eyeball the bike so I didn't get it perfectly centered before I drew the line but if you "save picture as" and then zoom in the black line looks like it paralels the left fork pretty dang close

The black line is off on the tire but its aslo off on the head light and the windshield. I think the taper on the front tire throws an optical illusion to make it look less than a 45 degree but I think it isn't a perfect 45 degree it is really close.

[caddman11]

When I do it's usually when making a slow turn from a stop.