Just Bought a VN1600

[nsmedic]

Hi Guys

Last month I bought my first Kawi, a 2006 nomad 1600. She had 38k (kilometers) on it and two previous owners. I have a feeling the last owner kept up on oil changes but not much else so I have been trying to get some little maintenance items out of the way and dealing with some new issues as they arise. I absolutely love how the bike drives and the only issue I noticed right off the bad was it usually took two tries to start when cold and it idled rough, had to have the idle knob turned nearly all the way up to smooth idle.

First thing I did was drop some new spark plugs in it, just to say that it was done. After having it for a month and putting about 4k I did a oil and filter change as well as changing the final drive oil. I was amazed at the improvement in performance, I didn't know new final drive oil could make such a difference.

Now a few days later the bike has started backfiring on deceleration. Sounds like a friggin shotgun blast going off. My first fear was that I had a exhaust leak. I had to drop the left can to get the drain bolt for the final drive out. (should probably mention I have a set of v+h baggers) and I read many posts on this forum about frequent failures of v+h pipes in the first bend under the heat shield. I did the smoke test and couldn't find anything unusual.

So this morning I pulled the plugs and found that both plugs in the rear cylinder were fouled. Front cylinder were fine. Replaced all four plugs with new ones, dumped a can of seafoam in the tank also cleaned out the throttle body. It was looking pretty narly in there.

The results...starts and idles much much better...took it out for a good test ride. backfiring has improved but not gone away. Previously it was backfiring loud when decelerating in any gear. Now it is only backfiring occasionaly, not nearly as loud and only seems to be when decelerating in third gear. Again a big improvement in performance, may be due to the seafoam cleaning some junk out. I plan on getting a good long ride in tomorrow and should see if it continues to improve.
Only other thing I can thing of to do is pull the pipes and visually inspect for a leak but ill give it a couple rides and see where im at.

Anyone else have any ideas for fixing this backfiring or general maintenance I might have missed?

This forum has been a wealth of knowledge for a first time kawi owner
Thanks

[macmac]

It would help to know what is left stock and or what has been changed from stock. That could be hard to tell i suppose.

Tell us as best you can what the air intake set up is like.

Stock is 2 dog bowls with a air filter in the left side as seated.

Do you still have that? If not you have some after market set up we call BAK for big air kit.

Look under the left side cover that comes off with the key and see if there is a fuel module device, as TFI, Cobra, or PC III.

V&H makes one too and that one is a horrible hunk of junk with 33 of 35 settings made and with no manual so you have to call in to V&H and get what ever techs they have to talk you threw that BS.

If you have that throw it away and buy a TFI.

I have no idea what could change on the bike by changing gear oil in the rear end. But I KNOW that if you added new oil with the bike dead level you added too much.

The best way to have oil there is to fill it on the side stand with that on a 2x4 so you don't get the case as full as the book says.

People who do that this way don't get rear case oil leaks. I check mine each oil change and change it every other.

Running full syn oils works well for reduced friction for better mpgs.

What are your MPG's? I used google to convert from klicks to miles and you have 23,600 about miles. My 06 has about 27,5000 miles now.

My 06 has a 9 inch by 2 inch air filter on the right side at the throttle body, a TFI to adjust for proper fuel and V&H Baggers which gurgle on a closed throttle engine braking.

I can hold a little throttle to tame the gurgle and mild spitting.

Very soon you should be checking the cam chain tensioners to see if you need extenders.

In CDN the dealer can sell you a set, or you can buy them here from Chuckster for around 30 bucks usd. I have no idea what these cost in Cdn, or what they look like from a dealer, so if you go that way a picture would be great.

These are a must check item at 28,000 and with a set in hand. Letting them go for too long will let the chains eat into the spark plug tube well and oil will comeforth as well as alloy chew will be in the engine oil/tranny oil.

And that is where I think you got any improvement, because the engine /tranny oil is shared when the engine oil is dead the shifting quality drops to hell in a hand basket.

On a molecular level that engine oil takes a thrashing.

A entire can of sea foam isn't that wise either.... If that is what you did. A little more that is called for per gallon is one thing but a whole friggin can is another besides it is expensive!

And do you still have reed valves? A lot of guys remove these valves and the boxes that house them and use a simple plate to cover where they were referred to as 'Coasters'

There is on one each cyl with big hoses if they are still there. As seated lt ft and rt rr.

Go here, BOOK MARK this site right off. then read around. There is a wealth of info you you to digest there.

http://www.gadgetjq.com/gadgetsfixitpage.htm

[nsmedic]

I absolutely love gatjets web page and have been pouring through it.

Air intake appears to be stock and reed valves are still in place. I have been reading that when aftermarket pipes are put on that it requires a fuel module but as far as I can tell this bike doesn't have one unless it is stashed under the seat somewhere. I get between 43 and and 48 MPG consistently and do a mix of freeway and secondary highway driving, very little city driving. From what I have been reading it seems anything over 40 is pretty good for a nomad.

Up until now I have only had a strong gurgle on deceleration as you describe so this shotgun type backfire is completely new.

The directions on the seafoam called for a whole can for 30 litres, so I put in two thirds, figured 20 litre tank made sense.

And I will make sure to check the cam chain tensioners soon.

Went out for another ride and it is still backfiring. Still not quite as bad as it was but dam its annoying.

[duffy]

If you had the pipes loose you might need a new set of header gaskets. They get "compacted" and lose their sealing ability. Cheap and pretty easy to change. If they aren't sealing properly you get one heck of a good backfire.

[nsmedic]

Originally Posted by duffy

If you had the pipes loose you might need a new set of header gaskets. They get "compacted" and lose their sealing ability. Cheap and pretty easy to change. If they aren't sealing properly you get one heck of a good backfire.

That is high on my list of suspicions as I recently unbolted the left can to change the final drive oil and then the backfiring started. was planning on getting a set of hd crusher gaskets tomorrow and taking the pipes off for a visual inspection. Any ideas where I could get a set of stainless Steele acorns to replace the rusted chrome ones. (somewhere I could walk to the counter instead of ordering online). I believe they are 8mm 125 slant 35mm long??

[macmac]

Try hunting for a fuel device under the cover that is keyed. You just about must have one for the MPG's if you are accurate in that calling...

Try the marble trick on gadjets site too for now. But look for a marble to be there as well.

I agree with duffy on header gaskets should be used one time and one time only, since they are crush type gaskets. It's pretty easy to have them slip installing them too, and or have some spec that holds a them from a good seal.


And since you have the reed valves it is possible that any of the rubber hoses are a poor fit, cracked, become brittle and loose and or have been blown off from a back fire even if you find a marble.

The vac pod that runs that junk I call Medusa's head. I got rid of that thing long ago. At first i capped off the reed valves which is a temp fix.. I suspect marbling and capping off these reed valve box will sooner or later over heat the red valves themselves and they will melt or break down being a plastic of some sort.

I did that with maybe 2,000 miles on the engine. I bought the 06 used in June 06 with 1.314 miles on it all stock. It wasn't much over a week and the left dog bowl was gone the coasters were on the baggers were on and a new TFI was installed.

I had done all that to a 01 and to other bikes and knew that Medusa head could be a problem to just stop it from working and leaving it there.

Then besides the big ID hoses there is a little ID hose that takes off vacuum from the Throttle Body (TB)

I tend to leave that tubing on and in place and stuff a glued machine thread screw into it.

So when the time comes to say good by to the reed valve boxes remove the Medusa head too.

And check over the HARD to See TB well for bare brass ports.

Ck that this is not a Cali Bike.... It probably isn't but it might be. There is no telling where bikes can get shipped.

The first thing to make sure of is that on the left side under the locking side cover there velcro strap is not holding anything.
I'll leave that there for now. If there is a black box with hoses going every where say so.

On the right side as seated dog bowl are the ISC's still there? 2 metal pods with a pair of wires each? These thing click at idle RPM and can go away pretty easy. The point here is they can be un-metered air leaks into the intake because the rubber bent tubbing goes to steel tubing which goes to rubber tubbing again and back to steel and rubber once more even

These won't make the engine back fire really, but 'we' need to know if they still exist or not and if not what was done.

[macmac]

Originally Posted by nsmedic

That is high on my list of suspicions as I recently unbolted the left can to change the final drive oil and then the backfiring started. was planning on getting a set of hd crusher gaskets tomorrow and taking the pipes off for a visual inspection. Any ideas where I could get a set of stainless Steele acorns to replace the rusted chrome ones. (somewhere I could walk to the counter instead of ordering online). I believe they are 8mm 125 slant 35mm long??

In the USA at any true value hardware store we have SS acorns nuts like that. That is what I did..

make sure these do not stop blind.... I added a ss flat washed for 2 flats and a ss lock to make sure of mine and i serviced the studs.

I hand wire brush the studs clean with a tooth brush made in plastic and SS.
I tape off the parts that will be under the threads on the acorn nuts, and with hi temp flat black misted into a can, paint with a soldering acid brush the stud threads that will be exposed.

Then I use anti seize on the threads that will be under the acorn nuts.

I worked sterling silver once and so buff the acorns bright on a cotton wheel.

Make it a rule that where there goes SS there goes anti seize and you will be fine.

Pay attention to the acorns on the studs though.. make certain they are not bottoming out.

[nsmedic]

There is nothing under the left cover. The two Velcro straps that once held the manual and the toolkit under the flap but no FI module. Is there another place it could be?

The two ICSs are still there under the right dog bowl and as far as I can tell no marbles. All the hoses are in place and appear to be in good condition. The wires are still connected to the ics units.

[duffy]

Check under the right side cover and under the seat also. Some folks can find ingenious places for those things.

[nsmedic]

Been under the right side cover and found nothing but the coolant reservoir. Ill have a look under the seat tonight.

Thanks everyone for the help

[nascar2]

I seen you right in kms are you from Canada? Where? Maybe some one is close to you?

[Boscoe]

The Cobra tuner for my Mean Streak was well-hidden under the seat next to the battery box.

[macmac]

I don't 'KNOW' you have a fuel aftermarket device, but the miles per gallon suggest one. All stock Nomads tend to get around 32/38 miles per gallon. They also tend to ping hard even on hi test gas because they are so overly lean they strain to just idle.

Changing the exhaust is one thing, because the intake is still limited. A bigger exhaust can breath out what the limited intake can breath in so that mod can be ok.

When you add a big air kit BAK then with no fuel mod (TFI is my all time favorite for open loop systems.) The engine gets to be critical mass lean and will cook itself.

So far in my experience, with building gasoline burners, at no other time have i added fuel and got better MPG's.

What I am after is a trade off for more power at the cost of more fuel.

In the case of Nomad with better breathing and more fuel you also get the more power, but you get to burn 87 octane, a cooler running engine that is no longer strained, and power.

Starting out with a unknown is harder than starting out all stock, because you can't tell what should be stock from what has been added on.

That velcro strap was to hold a carbon canister not any manual. All Nomads get the strap, only Cali bikes get the carbon canister.


I have seen cali bikes come from dealers in Ohio new, and i would bet money cali bikes made it into Canada. Cali bikes have other things that make them suited to cali law, and it would make a difference.

For the time being do the marble trick on Gadjets.

[cnc]

Originally Posted by nascar2

I seen you right in kms are you from Canada? Where? Maybe some one is close to you?

Yeah, that may be why he is reporting such good MPG Mac.
Our gallons are 1/5 bigger than U.S

[macmac]

Originally Posted by cnc

Yeah, that may be why he is reporting such good MPG Mac.
Our gallons are 1/5 bigger than U.S

i didn't know that.