Engine Vibration

[refugio]

There is one other thing I'm going to try about this sudden vibration that came up after my tear down at home for tires.....I have had the engine noise(as most do) for a while.
I just snapped to it today.
You see.....When my bike was torn down (wheels removed for new tires)......I added a set of Saddle Bag Lower Side Rails. I did not have these on there before tear down but put them on before my first ride with the new tires. I notice the vibration feeling in the driver's and the passenger seat on the very first ride after adding these.
The way the Lower Rails attach and from holding them while reving the engine got me thinking about what DOC said. What has changed before and after tear down. What did I do.
They attach at the back to the same metal tubing that the mufflers attach to which pick up some vibes because the exaust is attached to the engine. The lower rails then loop around the bottom outer edge of the saddle bag ..... suspended in the air and come around to attach at the bottom bracket for saddle bag crash bars.
Anyway....I think the lower rails may be amplifing the vibrations from the tubing it attaches to. This is the same tubing that the bracket is welded to where the Saddlebags sit....And I have noticed the bags Have been vibrating more. Well the bags attach at the top into each side under the passenger seat where the real vibrations are felt that I did not ever have before.

Never Mind my long winded explaination.......Bottom line.....Uninstall the Saddle Bag Lower Rails that were not there before....and ride the bike to see if it feels smooth while riding like it did before.
If this fixes the vibes I've been feeling in the seat....I'll let you all know....Then I'll invite everyone I've bugged about this to ride on down to South Texas and kick me in the arse.

[refugio]

Well.....Removed the Saddle Bag Lower rails the other day and rode the bike down the highway a little ways to see if removing them made a difference in the vibration. It did seem to settle down a little but I do not think they are the problem. (The lowers). Did not really get to do a long ride but I don't think the lowers being on there is the problem. I put them back on.

Today....My 14 year old son and I went riding for about 200 + miles and without me bringing it up ...he kept telling me about his seat vibrations and saying how smooth it used to be and how it was making the ride uncomfortable.....So

Something is not right....The motor is running strong but running kind of wierd with the way the clatter/vibes are there more so than before.
I have the dampers for the counter balancer on order and on the way...but not really sure if that is going to be the fix.....I may or may not install them when they arrive.

I am considering a Dealership visit but would like to do everything and anything possible to avoid taking it....I really do not trust them to not mess up something else....Just the way I am.
I still have 1 1/2 years of warranty left to decide on taking to the Dealer

[macmac]

You might consider levering each motor mount with something oike a plastic pipe wrapped in a rag. That may show a broken rubber mount, maybe?

[refugio]

Thanks macmac....I'll check it out.

[refugio]

No Dice......Took the left side cover off and examined the rubbers.....levered the motor to check for excessive play in the rubber innards of the mounts. All appeared to be intact.
Loosened up the bolts that run thru....let the engine idle and reved the engine a little and then re-torqued them to about 32-34 ft lbs each (front and rear). Did not ride last nite but the vibrations seemed to still be present.
These vibes are not severe but they seems more than before as I've been posting.
Nothing on the bike at all vibrates from the driver's seat forward...Only from the passenger's seat back.
I wish I new someone else near by with a Nomad 1600 like mine to compare with.

P.S. Got my parts in yesterday for changing out the rubber dampers on the counter balancer.
(rubbers , new bearing collar/bushing , and gaskets.
I am very hesitant on opening up the side of the motor...Not because I don't think I'm capable but because of warranty issues.
For me....Going to visit a Dealership is an absolute last resort......This bike would have to actually make my teeth rattle or something before I go to a Dealer.

Have a Nice Day Everybody

Doug

[formikec]

Personally, if I had the warranty, I'd take it to the dealership. If it isn't right when they get finished with it, take it back until it is right, or find another dealership. I don't trust people working on my stuff any more than the next guy, but if I have a warranty, I use it.

[dogdoc]

Doug, I would head to the dealer with that kind of problem, especially with warranty. if you or anybody cracks that motor open and cant fix it, they might just refuse to warranty it. They are that way. Good Luck with the vibration.

Doc

[macmac]

I hear ya on the dealer... They scare me too.. I used to be a dealer tech for foreign cars, so I know both sides of that story, and I can do anything I need to do, which is a plus.

Hmmmm I wonder.. Rear end vibs huh? I have absolutely no basis for this test, never heard of it before.

But I wonder if you have very worn swingarm seals, and the swing arm in in metal to metal contact with the frame. These swing arms are not adjustable for pre load on the swing arm bearings, but the swing DOES preload on the seals in a very odd and incorrect way just the same.

The OEM light grease on these bearings is ok, but is never nearly close to enuff. The result is a violent slap at the swingarm when cornering, which pounds the hell out of the seal top, and rubs off the rubber like coating, leaving the seals steel frame top most and semi polished, which is all wrong, but it is very common.

All you need for a rough test is a stout screw driver and a rag, and to pry the swong arm back and forth from the right side as seated. The gap between the frame and the swing arm tells all after you push and pull it a few times just to get the idea.

The reality of this is that the clearance in theory should be 0.002", but no one has anything like that, no one!

There is no spec,and no dealer will even bother to understand the reason there is no spec, or admitt this set up if for ther birds..

Now more or less the spec might be ok at say 0.010", but i bet no one has that either.

Muy 01 had fairly worn swingarm seals, and was 0.138 when new ones went in and that much slop did effect handling. Still there wasn't exactly metal to metal contact, swing arm to frame but it was getting close.

If you find rather a lot, then a lift should be used, and the shocks should be disconnected for a easier and better measurement.

Once more this is as wild a guess as i dare make.

Another way to test a few things would be to get a helper start the engine, and while things are still cool enough to put a gloved hand on touch things. This is in the hopes to discover something that stops the vibs and or the transfer of vibs.. This is one of the ways in the old days anyway brake lathes used a large rubber strap to reduce vibs when machining drums and rotors.

[refugio]

I wonder what the Dealer would say about my debaffeled pipes or about my Cobra fuel processor?

[dkdixie]

Don't know if this helps or not but when Cliff and I did the drive shaft and swingarm maintenance, more than 60-70% off my vibration went away.
I only had vibration when rolling hard on the throttle, mainly in 4th & 5th gear.

Anyway, hope you find the cure!!

[dogdoc]

Dealer wont say anything Refugio: But i bet he wont have a clue either why your bike vibrates either.

[redjay]

Hi refugio. Have you checked the licence plate and turn indicator brackets to see if they are tight ? How about the brackets that hold on the bags that are under the chrome doodads between the frame and bags ? How about the rubber insulators (large grommets) in the bottom frame under the bottom of the bags. Are they in place ? Is the backrest loose ?

[refugio]

Well.......I've decided to ride te bike the way it is.
Went riding today and the vibration is not really that bad.....but it is there.....maybe I'm getting used to it. The bike is really smooth feeling from the driver's seat forward as all the vibrations that are felt is from the passenger seat back.
It's not as noticable to me as it is to my passengers .... if any.

I still think that something from inside the left side of the motor closer to the rear is the culprit as that seems to be the source I feel with my hands while I raise the RPM's with the throtte and hold it.

I have checked just about everything exterior and nothing seems to fix it back like it was before. I did buy some dampers for the counter balancer and a collar/bushing and some gaskets but I'll just hold on to that stuff for now as I don't want to mess with my warranty by opening up the side of the engine to do the work....Besides...I don't know for sure that would fix it...Just a idea I had read about.

Anyway....As I said...It's not real real bad...The bike runs with lots of power and pep.
So I'm going to ride as is for now....If it gets worse....I still have a year and a half of warranty if I decide to take it to a Dealer at a later time......And I seriously doubt they will remedy the problem without f*cking something else up.

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions.

Doug

[rainman]

Hey, RainMan here, do you know where there are any detailed instructions for replacing the counter balancers. I have a bit of a vibration in mine also. I have replaced the entire front bevel gear case, not just parts of it, and have also replaced my rear final gear unit, drive shaft and universal joint connected to the front bevel gear case, and all the bearings in my wheels, front and back. There isn't much more to replace except in the crank case. I had thunder rebuild by engine about 5000 miles ago, maybe new pistons werent balanced or something. I had 105,000 miles when I rebuilt. Runs great just has a high pitched sound like a rear-end in an old truck. Any ideas???

[schoeney]

Hey Rainman, cool bike...105k...wow!

Welcome aboard...wish I could help with your question but this whole thread is over my head.

Good luck.