Starts, dies. - Page 3

Vulcan Bill · 11-01-2013, 11:15 AM

Just an FYI...your clock/odometer resetting is an all to common indication that the battery voltage is low. I suspect it's probably due to the fact that you've been using the starter a lot but the engine hasn't been able to run long enough to recharge it.
Please do make a post when you figure out the problem, I'd like to know what's causing this too.

trosco · 11-01-2013, 02:46 PM

Pud, you need a special tool/gauge. (Fuel pressure tester) Your dealer will have it, it's unlikely but you could find it at one of the autoparts places that loan tools. Here is a easier solution. Run to Napa or Autozone or similar and buy a spray can of Starter fluid. Pull the Right side (as sitting on bike)cover off Throttle body. Crack the throttle 1/4 and crank starter while spritzing (squirt-squirt-squirt not steady spray)the starter fluid into throttle body. If the squirts of starter fluid will keep bike running then it's a fuel flow problem and 99.9% of the time that a fuel pump/regulator/filter issue.

Puddlejumper · 11-01-2013, 05:58 PM

Hey to all. Thanks Ross, worked on it again this afternoon. Oil was a little low, filled to required level, coolant level is good, turned idle down just a little, cranked bike, sat and idled for probably 3 or 4 minutes, when opened up throttle, within 5 seconds it died. Did this several times. Next step, to try what you suggested in your last post Ross. Just happen to have a can of starter fluid I use for my farm tractor. Will let you all know what happens.

Puddlejumper · 11-01-2013, 08:08 PM

Ross, tried your suggestion with starter fluid, bike will continue to run when starter fluid injected into throttle body. Will run on fuel a couple seconds, when tries to die squirt starter fluid in and continues to run. Possibly losing pressure is what I suspect, what do you think? I will try this again tomorrow to be sure, but I think I may have a pump issue. After I check again should I go ahead and pull pump out of tank and inspect for possible problems, filter clogged, and such as that. I do greatly appreciate your help and advice. Hope you have a great vacation and will talk with you after you get back about the pump you have.

Puddlejumper · 11-02-2013, 07:17 PM

More confused today, cranked bike this morning, ran for about 4 to 5 minuets at 1/4 throttle. Never did die, however did skip, miss a 2 or 3 times during that time. Cut out and then pick right back up and run like it should. If pump was bad, and pressure was low, I don't think it should run for that long. Guess it's time to put back together and take to dealership for pressure check. Any more thoughts or suggestions. Could it be there was a partially clogged injector, and it is being cleaned out, or something along that line? Just surprised that it ran this morning like it did without quitting. Thanks again for all the thoughts, advice, and help.

Puddlejumper · 11-02-2013, 07:21 PM

BTW, the red light in the speedo never did go out the whole time it rand. Oil level and coolant level is good so I think it is pointing to the fuel injection system.

**cnc** · 11-02-2013, 07:22 PM

Ok since you seem to be targeting fuel starvation as your issue, have you removed the fuel pump and tried to clean the filter, maybe it is clogged with crap.

Puddlejumper · 11-02-2013, 10:31 PM

Have not removed pump yet, but since tank is still loose I will check that next. Thanks, that was the advice I was asking for.

kmaysob · 11-03-2013, 01:56 AM

THROW THAT CAN OF STARTER FLUID IN THE TRASH! its very easy to do damage with starting fluid. so does it only stay running when cold?

trosco · 11-03-2013, 11:49 AM

Pud, It still could be a fuel pressure problem but, some things you are describing make me wonder about other possibilities.
Turn the key on, don't touch starter and let pump cycle till it shuts off indicating it has reached the upper end of the required fuel pressure. FI lite that is on when you turn ignition on is a low fuel pressure lite and should cycle off when the pump stops. It doesn't come back on normally cause while the bike runs the pump runs and you stay up against that max pressure but if your pump/filter is failing the lite comes back on when motor starts cause pump/filter can't deliver require pressure and motor stalls.
IF the FI lite stays on steady and the motor runs sort of ok if you don't touch throttle then I think the light is on because of a different error code. You can read the stored codes (somewhere there is a "how to" on this site) and it will point you in the direction of your problem.
But...just thinking outloud here..... IF.... you have a aftermarket FI controller (Cobra FI2000r, Fuel-Tech, KuryAkyn, Power Commander) I would be suspicious of that. While you have the tank off I would completely remove that device and go back stock on the injector hook-ups. None of these devices fail a lot but they do fail and the power commanders especially are known to lose their fuel maps (i.e when you have bad or loose battery connections) and they could cause the problem you are experiencing. If it runs w/o the box hooked up (perhaps a little lean and maybe with some spark knock) then if it's a power commander reload a map and see if that takes care of it. If it is one of the others unless you see some obviously loose connection or a bare wire they are pretty much a throw away when they fail.
Good Luck

Silent Sam · 11-03-2013, 03:44 PM

I cant ad any thing in the way of Hi Tec advice...But the problem here sure sounds like a clogged fuel filter...or a failing fuel pump...

I agree with kmaysob...these aluminum engines are extra sensitive to "detonation"..and "cyl ring oil seal wash-down".. and Starter Fluid...can mess up your repair budget --in a flash !

Puddlejumper · 11-07-2013, 09:00 PM

Hello all, back at it again. Tank off, pump out, fuel gauge out, washed out with alcohol, going to leave open and let dry for the next few days. While pump is out is there a way to check pump for correct fuel pressure? Also wonder if I can connect the pump to the battery and pump some clean fuel through it prior to reassembly? If pump is not bad, I don't want to do anything to damage the pump. Thanks for the help.

trosco · 11-16-2013, 08:47 PM

Pud, disconnect the wires and pull the pump motor out of the filter/regulater assembly. There's a rubber sleeve where they come together so takes a little effort. You can spin the pump motor with jumpers from battery for few seconds to see if runs smooth but it doesn't get plugged, the filter/regulator does so no reason to worry about cleaning pump. Motor is either bad, or it's not. You can submerse the filter/regulater assemble in fuel (pail and gallon of gas) and REVERSE flush it. Put LESS THAN 30 PSI compressed air into OUTPUT side of filter/regulater and blow gas out the input side where pump was connected. You need to repeat about 30 times and a bunch of gunk will come out if the assembly is plugged. often this can help but just as often the regulater is damaged and the assembly needs to be replaced. But clean it then reassemble and reinstall. See if that helps.

Puddlejumper · 11-17-2013, 08:45 PM

Thanks Ross, I will take a look at that when I get back from hunting trip. Will be of for a couple weeks and will have time to try that and maybe get bike running again. Will also check fuel pump pressure. Will keep working on until fixed. No riding now anyway, weather nasty.

Puddlejumper · 12-06-2013, 09:42 PM

Back from hunting trip, got work kinda caught up, so back on the bike problem again. Went today, got fresh fuel, set tank back on bike, checked pump pressure when switch is turned on, pressure is 44 lbs. until pump stops, then holds at 39 to 40 lbs. for several seconds. Started bike and let run for about 3 to 4 minuets, thought everything ok, maybe moisture had dried out of injectors system while I was away. NOT!!!! Next time started bike, ran about 20 seconds then died. Did this several times. If keep bike reved up to about 2400 to 2500 rpm, bike will cut out about every 20 to 25 seconds for about a second, and then will continue to run for another 20 seconds or so and do the same thing again. Took bike up the road a little way, and through all the gears up to 4th, the same thing, run, cut out, come back and continue to run. My next check will be running the bike with the fuel pressure gauge in the fuel line and see if the pump is losing pressure while running. BTW, while riding the bike and during running, the FI light stays on all the time, so I know it is telling me there is a problem with the fuel system. Right? Thanks for all the help and advice, and any other thoughts will be appreciated.

11-01-2013, 11:15 AM	#31
Vulcan Bill Sr. Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Mesa Az Posts: 1,400	Just an FYI...your clock/odometer resetting is an all to common indication that the battery voltage is low. I suspect it's probably due to the fact that you've been using the starter a lot but the engine hasn't been able to run long enough to recharge it. Please do make a post when you figure out the problem, I'd like to know what's causing this too. __________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- '05 1600CL. Originator 18" Harley wheel mod, Dobeck TFI, True Duals, Mutazu hardbags, Flanders handlebars n' a bunch more. *Sometimes I miss the good ol' days but most times I'm just glad I survived them* Login or Register to Remove Ads
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11-01-2013, 02:46 PM	#32
trosco Sr. Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,464	Pud, you need a special tool/gauge. (Fuel pressure tester) Your dealer will have it, it's unlikely but you could find it at one of the autoparts places that loan tools. Here is a easier solution. Run to Napa or Autozone or similar and buy a spray can of Starter fluid. Pull the Right side (as sitting on bike)cover off Throttle body. Crack the throttle 1/4 and crank starter while spritzing (squirt-squirt-squirt not steady spray)the starter fluid into throttle body. If the squirts of starter fluid will keep bike running then it's a fuel flow problem and 99.9% of the time that a fuel pump/regulator/filter issue. __________________ trosco: just call me Ross 2007 Black & Titanium Nomad (Nomad made 65K but got replaced 2014) 2010 Titanium Goldwing 2014 KLR 650 New Edition
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11-02-2013, 07:17 PM	#35
Puddlejumper Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Lenoir North Carolina Posts: 97	More confused today, cranked bike this morning, ran for about 4 to 5 minuets at 1/4 throttle. Never did die, however did skip, miss a 2 or 3 times during that time. Cut out and then pick right back up and run like it should. If pump was bad, and pressure was low, I don't think it should run for that long. Guess it's time to put back together and take to dealership for pressure check. Any more thoughts or suggestions. Could it be there was a partially clogged injector, and it is being cleaned out, or something along that line? Just surprised that it ran this morning like it did without quitting. Thanks again for all the thoughts, advice, and help. Login or Register to Remove Ads
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11-02-2013, 07:22 PM	#37
cnc Join Date: May 2009 Location: Montreal QC Posts: 12,034	Ok since you seem to be targeting fuel starvation as your issue, have you removed the fuel pump and tried to clean the filter, maybe it is clogged with crap. __________________ Norm Ward 2008 blue / silver nomad kawanow / VBA #01136
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11-03-2013, 01:56 AM	#39
kmaysob Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Mesa Az Posts: 290	THROW THAT CAN OF STARTER FLUID IN THE TRASH! its very easy to do damage with starting fluid. so does it only stay running when cold? __________________ -RYAN- 2008 Nomad 1600 Blue and silver
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11-01-2013, 05:58 PM	#33
Puddlejumper Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Lenoir North Carolina Posts: 97	Hey to all. Thanks Ross, worked on it again this afternoon. Oil was a little low, filled to required level, coolant level is good, turned idle down just a little, cranked bike, sat and idled for probably 3 or 4 minutes, when opened up throttle, within 5 seconds it died. Did this several times. Next step, to try what you suggested in your last post Ross. Just happen to have a can of starter fluid I use for my farm tractor. Will let you all know what happens.
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11-01-2013, 08:08 PM	#34
Puddlejumper Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Lenoir North Carolina Posts: 97	Ross, tried your suggestion with starter fluid, bike will continue to run when starter fluid injected into throttle body. Will run on fuel a couple seconds, when tries to die squirt starter fluid in and continues to run. Possibly losing pressure is what I suspect, what do you think? I will try this again tomorrow to be sure, but I think I may have a pump issue. After I check again should I go ahead and pull pump out of tank and inspect for possible problems, filter clogged, and such as that. I do greatly appreciate your help and advice. Hope you have a great vacation and will talk with you after you get back about the pump you have.
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11-02-2013, 07:21 PM	#36
Puddlejumper Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Lenoir North Carolina Posts: 97	BTW, the red light in the speedo never did go out the whole time it rand. Oil level and coolant level is good so I think it is pointing to the fuel injection system.
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11-02-2013, 10:31 PM	#38
Puddlejumper Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Lenoir North Carolina Posts: 97	Have not removed pump yet, but since tank is still loose I will check that next. Thanks, that was the advice I was asking for.
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11-03-2013, 11:49 AM	#40
trosco Sr. Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,464	Pud, It still could be a fuel pressure problem but, some things you are describing make me wonder about other possibilities. Turn the key on, don't touch starter and let pump cycle till it shuts off indicating it has reached the upper end of the required fuel pressure. FI lite that is on when you turn ignition on is a low fuel pressure lite and should cycle off when the pump stops. It doesn't come back on normally cause while the bike runs the pump runs and you stay up against that max pressure but if your pump/filter is failing the lite comes back on when motor starts cause pump/filter can't deliver require pressure and motor stalls. IF the FI lite stays on steady and the motor runs sort of ok if you don't touch throttle then I think the light is on because of a different error code. You can read the stored codes (somewhere there is a "how to" on this site) and it will point you in the direction of your problem. But...just thinking outloud here..... IF.... you have a aftermarket FI controller (Cobra FI2000r, Fuel-Tech, KuryAkyn, Power Commander) I would be suspicious of that. While you have the tank off I would completely remove that device and go back stock on the injector hook-ups. None of these devices fail a lot but they do fail and the power commanders especially are known to lose their fuel maps (i.e when you have bad or loose battery connections) and they could cause the problem you are experiencing. If it runs w/o the box hooked up (perhaps a little lean and maybe with some spark knock) then if it's a power commander reload a map and see if that takes care of it. If it is one of the others unless you see some obviously loose connection or a bare wire they are pretty much a throw away when they fail. Good Luck __________________ trosco: just call me Ross 2007 Black & Titanium Nomad (Nomad made 65K but got replaced 2014) 2010 Titanium Goldwing 2014 KLR 650 New Edition Last edited by trosco; 11-03-2013 at 11:57 AM.
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11-03-2013, 03:44 PM	#41
Silent Sam Sr. Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: On The Shakey Side Posts: 2,501	I cant ad any thing in the way of Hi Tec advice...But the problem here sure sounds like a clogged fuel filter...or a failing fuel pump... I agree with kmaysob...these aluminum engines are extra sensitive to "detonation"..and "cyl ring oil seal wash-down".. and Starter Fluid...can mess up your repair budget --in a flash !
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11-07-2013, 09:00 PM	#42
Puddlejumper Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Lenoir North Carolina Posts: 97	Hello all, back at it again. Tank off, pump out, fuel gauge out, washed out with alcohol, going to leave open and let dry for the next few days. While pump is out is there a way to check pump for correct fuel pressure? Also wonder if I can connect the pump to the battery and pump some clean fuel through it prior to reassembly? If pump is not bad, I don't want to do anything to damage the pump. Thanks for the help.
	0

11-16-2013, 08:47 PM	#43
trosco Sr. Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,464	Pud, disconnect the wires and pull the pump motor out of the filter/regulater assembly. There's a rubber sleeve where they come together so takes a little effort. You can spin the pump motor with jumpers from battery for few seconds to see if runs smooth but it doesn't get plugged, the filter/regulator does so no reason to worry about cleaning pump. Motor is either bad, or it's not. You can submerse the filter/regulater assemble in fuel (pail and gallon of gas) and REVERSE flush it. Put LESS THAN 30 PSI compressed air into OUTPUT side of filter/regulater and blow gas out the input side where pump was connected. You need to repeat about 30 times and a bunch of gunk will come out if the assembly is plugged. often this can help but just as often the regulater is damaged and the assembly needs to be replaced. But clean it then reassemble and reinstall. See if that helps. __________________ trosco: just call me Ross 2007 Black & Titanium Nomad (Nomad made 65K but got replaced 2014) 2010 Titanium Goldwing 2014 KLR 650 New Edition
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11-17-2013, 08:45 PM	#44
Puddlejumper Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Lenoir North Carolina Posts: 97	Thanks Ross, I will take a look at that when I get back from hunting trip. Will be of for a couple weeks and will have time to try that and maybe get bike running again. Will also check fuel pump pressure. Will keep working on until fixed. No riding now anyway, weather nasty.
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12-06-2013, 09:42 PM	#45
Puddlejumper Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Lenoir North Carolina Posts: 97	Back from hunting trip, got work kinda caught up, so back on the bike problem again. Went today, got fresh fuel, set tank back on bike, checked pump pressure when switch is turned on, pressure is 44 lbs. until pump stops, then holds at 39 to 40 lbs. for several seconds. Started bike and let run for about 3 to 4 minuets, thought everything ok, maybe moisture had dried out of injectors system while I was away. NOT!!!! Next time started bike, ran about 20 seconds then died. Did this several times. If keep bike reved up to about 2400 to 2500 rpm, bike will cut out about every 20 to 25 seconds for about a second, and then will continue to run for another 20 seconds or so and do the same thing again. Took bike up the road a little way, and through all the gears up to 4th, the same thing, run, cut out, come back and continue to run. My next check will be running the bike with the fuel pressure gauge in the fuel line and see if the pump is losing pressure while running. BTW, while riding the bike and during running, the FI light stays on all the time, so I know it is telling me there is a problem with the fuel system. Right? Thanks for all the help and advice, and any other thoughts will be appreciated.
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