Starts, dies. - Page 2

Puddlejumper · 10-28-2013, 07:14 PM

OK guys, I am beginning to suspect something other than fuel system problems, other than the required current to operate. The reason, when I went down to the bike this afternoon to try to sort this out, the clock and the trip meter had reset. Time was wrong, and trip meter at 0.0. This should not happen, as I understand unless you are losing voltage, or battery is low, or bad. Is that correct. I put battery in in Jan. this year, and it stays on a tender when not riding. Has been off tender since Thur. 24th, but battery should not lose voltage in that short of time unless there is a something draining it, or the battery is already going bad. Am I thinking right or not?

**ringadingh** · 10-28-2013, 08:37 PM

Sounds like you may have a short somewhere. Check to see if the harness is chafed on the lh side of the rear cylinder just under the tank,.

**cnc** · 10-28-2013, 08:49 PM

Got a multi meter?, check your battery voltage, before and during cranking. If you think some thing is draining it, charge the battery completely, leave the neg cable off the battery and see what voltage you get after several days. Charge the battery again so you start off with the same value, connect battery cable and leave it again for several days and see if you get the same reading.

Stu · 10-29-2013, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ringadingh

Sounds like you may have a short somewhere. Check to see if the harness is chafed on the lh side of the rear cylinder just under the tank,.

I had this problem, it shorted out the fuse for the fuel processor while I was riding. I was able to pull off and get towed. I lifted the tank, and loosened the harness from the frame (suggested by more than just Ring), didn't see any chafing, but re-wrapped it with electrical tape, and re-secured it to the frame. I also made sure that the oil was full (at the time it turned out to be really low) - so I'm not sure if that had something to do with it either.

In any case - re-wrapping the harness where Ring mentioned seemed to fix the problem for me. (This was about 8,000 miles ago)

FYI - I blew something like 6 fuses troubleshooting this. When I turned the key the fuse would blow immediately.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

davidhollinger · 10-29-2013, 08:18 AM

Let us know what it turns out to be please...

Puddlejumper · 10-29-2013, 06:44 PM

OK, took tank off this afternoon, not too difficult, just watched what I was doing and did not get in a hurry. That was after I had syphoned out the 5 gal. of gas. Emptied remaining gas and did have evidence of moisture in tank. very small beads on side of tank after empting. While tank is off I will tape wiring harness as suggested, and while I am at it, will do some cleaning on engine and frame. No signs of pump being clogged as pressure from tank was forcing fuel from outlet. Should I leave tank open for a few days to let air and dry out, or use some sea foam to take care of any remaining moisture? BTW, I was by the station where I fueled up on Friday, and they had all three pumps handles bagged of the pump I used to fuel my bike. Coincidence, maybe but probably not. Thanks guys for all the help. Love this forum, great guys and lots of knowledge and information.

**ringadingh** · 10-29-2013, 06:47 PM

Before you tape it up, look to see if there are any chafed wires with the copper showing. Also check that your ignition switch isn't worn and causing the problem, I doubt its that, but you have to rule it out.

**cnc** · 10-29-2013, 07:03 PM

If you dumped the tank and shook it upside down, you should be pretty good. You could put some isopropyl gas line antifreeze in with the new gas, it absorbs moisture better than seafoam.
Hope this is the cure for your woes. I had water in the gas twice and each time the bike would run ok till it got shook up and mixed with the gas then the motor would stop just like I hit the kill switch, no buck no sputter. It would restart and go for a bit and stop dead again. Bothe times I could not completely get rid of it till I pulled the tank and dumped it.

Puddlejumper · 10-29-2013, 08:13 PM

Looked at the wires as well as possible, could not see any chafing or shinny places along the entire length. double wrapped with good electrical tape and will try to get back together on Thursday. Thanks for the gas line antifreeze suggestion. I will be doing that when I put new gas back in. Still have a little bit of gas in the tank, so will get all I can out prior to filling back up. Have a good night, and thanks to all.

Puddlejumper · 10-31-2013, 04:54 PM

It's Thursday, going to start putting the bike back together this afternoon. When I get the tank set back on the bike, prior to securing, is there a way to check the fuel pump to make sure it is pumping? Is the high pitched whine you hear when the key is turned on the fuel pump cycling? I think that is what that is but am not sure. Will check for answers later, am on way to basement to start. Thanks.

trosco · 10-31-2013, 06:03 PM

Pud; when you switch power on the pump will cycle up and push fuel toward the injectors. When the back pressure reaches a pressure that the injectors require to function the FI lite goes off and the regulator will interrupt power to the pump. Once you fire the engine, pressure drops, the regulator switches the pump back on and that cycle repeats while the bike runs. A bad pump/regulator assembly will cycle up (just takes a second or two longer) until the pressure reached. The FI lite is on till it's reached. Pressure reached, lite goes off and you start engine and pump (being bad) can't maintain the required pressure when injectors are pulling fuel so low pressure shuts engine off and fuel lite comes back on. Unless the pump fries itself (fairly rare) they seem normal. But I've been involved with half dozen, only one had fried pump the rest seemed normal but were only able maintain 6-10 psi in fuel line. I think you need greater than 34 psi? This may or may not be your problem but if the other leads dry up check the actual pressure your pump maintains.

**ringadingh** · 10-31-2013, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puddlejumper

It's Thursday, going to start putting the bike back together this afternoon. When I get the tank set back on the bike, prior to securing, is there a way to check the fuel pump to make sure it is pumping? Is the high pitched whine you hear when the key is turned on the fuel pump cycling? I think that is what that is but am not sure. Will check for answers later, am on way to basement to start. Thanks.

Thats is what your hearing, If you hear it whine I consider it a safe bet that its pumping. There is an internal filter in the tank, not meant to be changed, Ive heard were a couple have become clogged over the years,
It can be changed though, I think there is a how to on Gadgets Fixit site.

trosco · 10-31-2013, 07:11 PM

The silver is the pump motor. The white plastic is the filter / reservoir and the black cap is the pressure regulator. The sump that it sits in and attaches to the tank is in the back ground on the right and laying down on the left is the foot and sock pre filter fuel pick up that attaches to the base of the pump before the assembly goes in to the sump.

trosco · 10-31-2013, 07:16 PM

here's a second pic

Puddlejumper · 10-31-2013, 07:45 PM

Thanks for all the answers. Put bike back together this afternoon, enough anyway to see if things had changed. Tank cleaned, new fuel, pump is pumping, but I don't know at what pressure, cranked then died several times. Ross, you suggested fuel pressure should be checked by me or dealer. Can I check pressure and how do I do it. Do I need any special tools to check. Please do not let that pump assembly you have go, as I may need it. With the dealings you have had with pumps, that may be my problem.

10-28-2013, 07:14 PM	#16
Puddlejumper Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Lenoir North Carolina Posts: 97	OK guys, I am beginning to suspect something other than fuel system problems, other than the required current to operate. The reason, when I went down to the bike this afternoon to try to sort this out, the clock and the trip meter had reset. Time was wrong, and trip meter at 0.0. This should not happen, as I understand unless you are losing voltage, or battery is low, or bad. Is that correct. I put battery in in Jan. this year, and it stays on a tender when not riding. Has been off tender since Thur. 24th, but battery should not lose voltage in that short of time unless there is a something draining it, or the battery is already going bad. Am I thinking right or not? Login or Register to Remove Ads
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10-28-2013, 08:37 PM	#17
ringadingh Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Newmarket Ontario Canada Posts: 35,387	Sounds like you may have a short somewhere. Check to see if the harness is chafed on the lh side of the rear cylinder just under the tank,. __________________ 2002 Nomad aka Bountyhunter VBA #27 VROC #18951
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10-28-2013, 08:49 PM	#18
cnc Join Date: May 2009 Location: Montreal QC Posts: 12,034	Got a multi meter?, check your battery voltage, before and during cranking. If you think some thing is draining it, charge the battery completely, leave the neg cable off the battery and see what voltage you get after several days. Charge the battery again so you start off with the same value, connect battery cable and leave it again for several days and see if you get the same reading. __________________ Norm Ward 2008 blue / silver nomad kawanow / VBA #01136
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10-29-2013, 08:18 AM	#20
davidhollinger Sr. Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Central Alabama Posts: 2,188	Let us know what it turns out to be please... __________________ I would be patient, but it takes too long!! David Hollinger 2002 Beige 1500 "Hannah2" VBA # 02195 Login or Register to Remove Ads
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10-29-2013, 06:47 PM	#22
ringadingh Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Newmarket Ontario Canada Posts: 35,387	Before you tape it up, look to see if there are any chafed wires with the copper showing. Also check that your ignition switch isn't worn and causing the problem, I doubt its that, but you have to rule it out. __________________ 2002 Nomad aka Bountyhunter VBA #27 VROC #18951
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10-29-2013, 06:44 PM	#21
Puddlejumper Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Lenoir North Carolina Posts: 97	OK, took tank off this afternoon, not too difficult, just watched what I was doing and did not get in a hurry. That was after I had syphoned out the 5 gal. of gas. Emptied remaining gas and did have evidence of moisture in tank. very small beads on side of tank after empting. While tank is off I will tape wiring harness as suggested, and while I am at it, will do some cleaning on engine and frame. No signs of pump being clogged as pressure from tank was forcing fuel from outlet. Should I leave tank open for a few days to let air and dry out, or use some sea foam to take care of any remaining moisture? BTW, I was by the station where I fueled up on Friday, and they had all three pumps handles bagged of the pump I used to fuel my bike. Coincidence, maybe but probably not. Thanks guys for all the help. Love this forum, great guys and lots of knowledge and information.
	0

10-29-2013, 07:03 PM	#23
cnc Join Date: May 2009 Location: Montreal QC Posts: 12,034	If you dumped the tank and shook it upside down, you should be pretty good. You could put some isopropyl gas line antifreeze in with the new gas, it absorbs moisture better than seafoam. Hope this is the cure for your woes. I had water in the gas twice and each time the bike would run ok till it got shook up and mixed with the gas then the motor would stop just like I hit the kill switch, no buck no sputter. It would restart and go for a bit and stop dead again. Bothe times I could not completely get rid of it till I pulled the tank and dumped it. __________________ Norm Ward 2008 blue / silver nomad kawanow / VBA #01136
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10-29-2013, 08:13 PM	#24
Puddlejumper Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Lenoir North Carolina Posts: 97	Looked at the wires as well as possible, could not see any chafing or shinny places along the entire length. double wrapped with good electrical tape and will try to get back together on Thursday. Thanks for the gas line antifreeze suggestion. I will be doing that when I put new gas back in. Still have a little bit of gas in the tank, so will get all I can out prior to filling back up. Have a good night, and thanks to all.
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10-31-2013, 04:54 PM	#25
Puddlejumper Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Lenoir North Carolina Posts: 97	It's Thursday, going to start putting the bike back together this afternoon. When I get the tank set back on the bike, prior to securing, is there a way to check the fuel pump to make sure it is pumping? Is the high pitched whine you hear when the key is turned on the fuel pump cycling? I think that is what that is but am not sure. Will check for answers later, am on way to basement to start. Thanks.
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10-31-2013, 06:03 PM	#26
trosco Sr. Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,464	Pud; when you switch power on the pump will cycle up and push fuel toward the injectors. When the back pressure reaches a pressure that the injectors require to function the FI lite goes off and the regulator will interrupt power to the pump. Once you fire the engine, pressure drops, the regulator switches the pump back on and that cycle repeats while the bike runs. A bad pump/regulator assembly will cycle up (just takes a second or two longer) until the pressure reached. The FI lite is on till it's reached. Pressure reached, lite goes off and you start engine and pump (being bad) can't maintain the required pressure when injectors are pulling fuel so low pressure shuts engine off and fuel lite comes back on. Unless the pump fries itself (fairly rare) they seem normal. But I've been involved with half dozen, only one had fried pump the rest seemed normal but were only able maintain 6-10 psi in fuel line. I think you need greater than 34 psi? This may or may not be your problem but if the other leads dry up check the actual pressure your pump maintains. __________________ trosco: just call me Ross 2007 Black & Titanium Nomad (Nomad made 65K but got replaced 2014) 2010 Titanium Goldwing 2014 KLR 650 New Edition
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10-31-2013, 07:45 PM	#30
Puddlejumper Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Lenoir North Carolina Posts: 97	Thanks for all the answers. Put bike back together this afternoon, enough anyway to see if things had changed. Tank cleaned, new fuel, pump is pumping, but I don't know at what pressure, cranked then died several times. Ross, you suggested fuel pressure should be checked by me or dealer. Can I check pressure and how do I do it. Do I need any special tools to check. Please do not let that pump assembly you have go, as I may need it. With the dealings you have had with pumps, that may be my problem.
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