ABS ring on a harley wheel

[Tommybouy]

In the past I had a 2011 Vaq which I had the forks milled and the spacers cut and I installed the Harley 19'' Enforcer. Looked great, worked great and the guy that owns the bike now still has it on there.
I have had a 2015 Vaq now for a while and I finally decided to see what I could do to it. My question is the ABS ring needs to be installed on the wheel and I'm wondering if anyone has done it. I decided this time I was going to mill the rotor mounts on the wheel instead of the forks. This way switching back will be easy. The abs ring centre hole is too small to slide over the Harley hub so I will need to find a different ring to use or have major mods done to this one.
I have also read many times that the folks that switch to the 21 inch always end up with the ABS not working. My assumption would be that the outside diameter of the wheel is so different from stock that the ABS ring needs to be changed to one with less air gaps so the speed read is more accurate. I am curious why I have never read this being attempted.
Does anyone have any experience doing this or have opinions on my suggestions?

[BrokeAss]

Buy a Harley instead of defiling a perfectly good Vulcan???

[Tommybouy]

It always seems like there are people that just like to hear themselves talk. If you don't have any good input to the conversation then why say anything?

I hope you feel the same way about people that change their exhaust or their radio or their seat. It's factory or nothing for you guys I guess.

I'm a Vaquero guy. Sold my last one at 200k and have 50k on this one. Just hate the look of the stock 16'' wheel.

[DragonLady58]

Originally Posted by Tommybouy

It always seems like there are people that just like to hear themselves talk. If you don't have any good input to the conversation then why say anything?

I hope you feel the same way about people that change their exhaust or their radio or their seat. It's factory or nothing for you guys I guess.

I'm a Vaquero guy. Sold my last one at 200k and have 50k on this one. Just hate the look of the stock 16'' wheel.

Check out Roaring Toyz, they have a big wheel kit, its a complete bolt on affair. You can even get a raked tree, big tire kit, all rolled into one, and it helps that big bike feel lighter going down the road....and it works with the stock ABS system on the bike....
Complete bolt on 21" wheel (diff. styles), fender brackets so you can use your stock front fender, has custom hubs so you can even uses the stock disc's....
.https://www.buynowroaringtoyz.com/Ka...p/vaq21kit.htm ...

[BrokeAss]

Originally Posted by Tommybouy

It always seems like there are people that just like to hear themselves talk. If you don't have any good input to the conversation then why say anything?

I hope you feel the same way about people that change their exhaust or their radio or their seat. It's factory or nothing for you guys I guess.

I'm a Vaquero guy. Sold my last one at 200k and have 50k on this one. Just hate the look of the stock 16'' wheel.

Jeesh, Dude, lighten up...notice we have access to these funny emoticons for a reason, to have a go at one another from time to time... I build custom bikes for a living, so don't lecture me on keeping things factory... You pretty much answered your own question with your first post, yes, you'd need a custom tone ring to fit the HD wheel and produce the pulses the ABS system is looking for, any other questions??? My answer was sarcastic, yes (You know...funny???) because that's a lot of work to make a Vulcan look like an inferior (in my opinion...) motorcycle...but more power to ya, it can be done, and kudos to you if you got through with it and pull it off...

Now, go have a beer or two and ask yourself if this is where you wanna be when Jesus comes back!!!

[gv550]

A 21 inch wheel and tire would turn at a slower RPM than 16 inch, so you'd need a tone ring with more slots to fool the ABS computer to think the wheel is rotating faster.

[DragonLady58]

https://vulcanbagger.com/forums/albu...pictureid=2465

[andyvh1959]

Originally Posted by gv550

A 21 inch wheel and tire would turn at a slower RPM than 16 inch, so you'd need a tone ring with more slots to fool the ABS computer to think the wheel is rotating faster.

Right, but not quite. ABS works by monitoring wheel speeds front and rear, and comparing those wheel speed values against a calculated actual vehicle speed. When the ABS senses a wheel (the brake must be applied) is turning slower than the reference speed beyond a predetermined "slip ratio" of 5 to 10%, the ABS takes control of that brake to release pressure until that wheel speeds up to match the reference speed.

If a wheel diameter is altered beyond a range the ABS control can adjust for, the ABS defaults into a soft fail (turns on the ABS light) or hard fail, and shuts down entirely. Say you changed the width of the rear tire and didn't select the right aspect ratio, the rear tire may be too big or small in diameter and cause the ABS to think that wheel is turning slower than the reference speed. Or, install a 19" or 21" front wheel and didn't change to a very low aspect ratio tire, like a 50 or 45, and the tire diameter is too big. The ABS thinks that tire is turning slower than the reference speed.

Thing is, if the tire diameter is drastically different, the ABS cannot know it, or adjust for it, and it cannot be reprogrammed for it either. In this case, the wheel does not even have to be in a braking event. If the ABS reads a tire is not matching the reference speed consistently, it will also shut down.

So yes it is true the tone wheel would have to match the wheel/tire size, for what the Vulcan ABS knows in its program. But, its not as simple as changing the tone wheel size, number of teeth, tooth form. The output signal generated by the tone wheel/speed sensor has to be the right voltage and frequency. The ABS program trims the voltage sine wave into a square wave. So, for all this to work with a different diameter wheel, the tone wheel and the speed sensor coil have to produce the exact same voltage signal and frequency for the Vulcan ABS to read it and use it. If the original tone wheel has 100 teeth or slots, its a crap shoot/guess to think a tone wheel with 120 slots, or a 140 slots would produce the exact right signal to the ABS controller.

So, after all that blather (geeze I can get wordy), a couple IFs. IF the 19" Enforcer front tire outside diameter is near exactly the same as the stock Vaquero 17" front tire outside diameter, and IF you can mount the stock tone wheel/disc onto the HD wheel, then yes the Vulcan ABS will work. Then it'll never know that a different front wheel is installed.

[BrokeAss]

Originally Posted by andyvh1959

The output signal generated by the tone wheel/speed sensor has to be the right voltage and frequency. The ABS program trims the voltage sine wave into a square wave. So, for all this to work with a different diameter wheel, the tone wheel and the speed sensor coil have to produce the exact same voltage signal and frequency for the Vulcan ABS to read it and use it.

The ABS wheel sensors are passive solid state devices...just coils actually...that respond to the tone ring on the wheel. The voltage, therefore, is determined by the ABS controller itself, which in this case won't be changed. That leaves the frequency, which is a function of tone ring pulses per revolution. For the ABS to get along with a larger wheel, it simply must believe the wheel isn't larger. This can be accomplished by calculating the stock pulses per mile, and determining how many spokes would be necessary to produce the same pulses per mile on the larger wheel. For a larger wheel, which will turn fewer revolutions per mile, more spokes will be needed on the tone ring, and the spokes will likely need to be narrower to tighten up the sine wave to match the faster, smaller stock wheel.

Can it be done, yes...should it is subjective...I've never locked a wheel on my Nomad for one, and I don't like anything Harley for another, so to me, no.

[Peg]

Originally Posted by andyvh1959

Right, but not quite. ABS works by monitoring wheel speeds front and rear, anweqrgmvreutmpbtpwerumcqnncewunoi vnowineuronqvoiwenrbopiaunvonmsiufn,eurpmvinoasynr ovoirumtians dorynvonweorvnoienrvoinozySn biesunroynIUSn onoertmo noynBEN ooweirmnAPn [uUNMV MPSON OUNZsdIUN IOVIREYTIB NOAQEURTBICB IUNR OER T PYNVONWITNVN NEWYR VPEWPRNVWEN

<wHOOOOOOSH>




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[andyvh1959]

Yeah, I know, I get wordy. Written too many technical service articles on fire trucks from years ago.

[Peg]

Originally Posted by andyvh1959

Yeah, I know, I get wordy. Written too many technical service articles on fire trucks from years ago.

It's actually quite nice to read something written by someone who obviously knows what they're talking about (for a change?) Andy... But I'll tease you about it all the same

[azvaquero]

Resurrecting an old thread in case the OP had some success. Getting ready to head down this path myself.

[Chuck A.]

Roaring Toyz sells the 21 inch wheel and everything you need in a kit to add it to the 1700. Kit even has the fender relocate brackets. Link in post 4 above.