"REDS" P.O.G. just went out

[DragonLady58]

I love reading this thread. I hate splitting the cases, just for a oilpump, but, sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I'm no stranger to fishing things up thru passages, drilling, etc. You have to realize the FU potential is way on up there for folks getting over their heads.
After reading all this, hope the guy can get it fixed without trashing his engine.
By the time all this elective surgery is done, you won't know if its a good, dependable fix.
Now, if you pull the motor, take it to a dealership, theres no reason why in a couple of weeks you can't pick up your motor, like new, for $1500-$1800. If you love your bike, its a good deal! All new bearings, pump, pistons w/rings, a fresh rebore if she needs it, valve job, new gaskets, etc.
Another alternative will be find a later model 1600 engine, low miles outta another Nomad, and just bolt her in. You can pick up a low mileage 1600 engine for $1200 to $1800 complete, with a warranty off ebay. Either sell your old 1500 engine complete or part her out. If you plan on keeping the bike, you can have that one rebuilt at your leasure, waiting for that 150,000 or so mile mark to get close. Then swap them out.
You'll have extra parts, should you need them, which is a plus also.
Just my 2 pecos, but, don't try a shoddy repair and ruin a good engine. Do whichever your comfortable with and can afford.
A $1200-$1800 for a newer 1600 engine is alot cheaper than another bike, plus, it'll put a really big smile on your face with that added stroke in the bottomend.

[vulcanscott]

No Drilling the case ! I sent You a PM with My # Call Me . I will look thru the shop this morning and see if I still have the tool .

[danimal2]

Originally Posted by vulcanscott

No Drilling the case ! I sent You a PM with My # Call Me . I will look thru the shop this morning and see if I still have the tool .

Got your pm, but there's no phone number.

[vulcanscott]

sent a second one with it .

[vulcanscott]

just sent it again see if You get it

[danimal2]

Appreciate all who posted up with ideas. Especially Vulcan Scott who invited me to call him for tips and tricks regarding the hell hole deal. I think I have this thing. I've had time this week, but purposely didn't work on it until today (Saturday). I didn't want to rush anything or be working in the dark (which it is shortly after I get home from work). Just now finished it up, took a spin on it and the clicking noise that concerned me was gone.

I did not do the hell hole install. After my last test ride and the clicking noise, I opened it up again and started looking around. I taped and put rags everywhere and took a die grinder to the weld bead on the SOG. Even though I saw no signs of it making contact, I could see with an inspection mirror it was extremely close to the back side of the clutch basket. Although I had rolled the motor over by hand while observing this area, there's no way I could duplicate the forces of a running motor. I figured what the heck. So now the weld is ground flush and if nothing else, looks a lot better than it did. Almost have to pat myself on the back. It looks pretty good for a novice welder. Didn't see any pits or pockets in the weld whilst grinding on it and have adequate penetration.

The other thing the reflection in the inspection mirror told me was that the gear teeth on the drive gear (clutch basket back side) and the oil gear were not meshing 100%. Below is a crude drawing of what it looked like in the mirror. I think this was my biggest issue. Looking at all my disassembled pieces/parts I noticed the clutch assembly has two large thrust washers on it and they're identical. One goes between the crankcase and back side of the clutch basket, the other inside the clutch basket. They have the same part number and everything (92022A). The original thought was order another one and use two of them between the clutch basket and crank case/bearings instead of one, it helped to align the gears but, when I tried to fit both of them it was a little too much spacing.

Since doubling up the washer was too much, I went looking for a washer locally that was half again as thick as the stock piece (50% thicker than stock) to get the spacing right. Found one and just had to die grind out the center a bit so it would fit on the shaft. The outside diameter was spot on. The thicker washer also spaced the clutch basket a little further away from the welded SOG so that was a plus.

So ended up putting it all back together with the thicker washer. A fresh crankcase of oil and apparently those couple things did the trick (gears better aligned by spacing, weld bead knocked down). I could tell instantly that the noise/clicking I heard earlier is gone. Bike seems to be running great. I'm very sensitive to the motors in my stuff and can usually tell pretty quick if something isn't right. Hopefully this will do it.

I'll keep the trips short for a while, but I think this thing is going to work. One thing's for sure the oil pump gear isn't going to fall off. If I'm wrong, screwed this up completely and it breaks on me somewhere, I'll update this.

If it works, I'm gonna be one happy SOB. Did not want to get another bike. I love the color of my 99 and have it setup just the way I like it. Although I've been looking, honestly didn't see anything I would rather have even though they were newer, fuel injected and didn't have the blasted POG, SOG, JOG thing to contend with.

Knowing what I know now, would I do a 99 again. NOPE! I'd do another Nomad in a heartbeat. Just not a 99.

I've put 60 miles on it staying close to home. Never realized how long it takes to ride 60 miles in your neighborhood. I think it's going to be fine and will start ranging out some more.

In retrospect I could've pushed the SOG back further on the shaft when I tacked it, gotten the same result and not had to resort to spacing things around. I kept seeing "make sure when welding the SOG it's flush with the end of the shaft." I welded that sucker on and there wasn't any going back. I was fully committed at that point. In reality, mine needed to get choked up on the shaft a bit. I'd really like the opportunity to see the POG and drive gear spacing for comparison's sake. Probably never happen though.

[mick56]

I just read all this again,and the other comments in various other post's.And it appears that Phil Halling was'nt the first bloke to come up with the idea.But welding the bastard still seems the way to go.

[DragonLady58]

Well, welding is the correct option, if done correctly. The main thing is to get the gear in the correct position, running true, and not to overheat the shaft, BUT, you can't weld too cold either.
I've picked up several 99's, that had the POG, and have replaced with the steel.
What I did was put a chamfer on the gears bore facing the clutch basket, 1/16 to 3/32. Use a chamfering tool from Harbor Freight, MSC, or Enco.
With a straight die grinder, and a hard grinding stone, with a 45 degree angle, put the same angle on the shaft.
With the mig, tack inside the chamfer in 4 places, small, light tacks, turning it, making sure the gear tracks straight. Reinstall your clutch basket/drive gear to check lineup. You might have to lightly tap the gear to make it run true.
I use a starret last word indicator to get it -0-, or as close as I can get it. Alot of times when you weld, it will pull the piece outta alignment.
When you do all this, make sure you have everything covered up and wrapped up, you can't get any welding slag or bbs into the gears, bearing or into the hell hole.
The last 2 I did was with a Tig welder, that kept the heat down, no slag, and a superior weld.
If nothing else, take your engine to a welding shop to have it TIG welded on....
All that I have done haven't had any problems.
Main thing is to keep everything clean, the gear straight, spray the surrounding area with weld spray.
Its all a matter of attention to detail for a successful repair. Good luck to everyone doing this repair.

One more thing, upon assembly, I put engine assembly grease, ie, Lubraplate on the steel oil pump gear and the drive gear on the rear of clutch basket. After about 200/300 miles, I do a oil change with filter to flush out grit, if any, where the new oil gear mates to the drive gear....
Its a very small amount so don't worry.
Doublecheck that the oil gear and drive gear do not bind any at all....and all will be good.

This repair is time consuming if done correctly, but isn't hard. Just pay attention to detail....

[danimal2]

I posted on this a little over a year ago. The old green meanie has 45,000 miles on it another year older and still going strong. Taking her out tomorrow for a cruise.

[Loafer]

I think the best option is to not buy a 1999.

[mick56]

Originally Posted by Loafer

I think the best option is to not buy a 1999.

Once you see one in those colours,there is no option.Prettiest damn bike i ever saw.I never even knew they existed until i saw mine for sale.All common sense went straight out of the window,and next morning,i drove 3/4 the length of the country to buy it.It's given me all kinds of arse ache's since,much of it resolved by blokes on here. It will need to be wrestled from my cold,dead hands.

[DragonLady58]

Just bought a 99' 1500 Drifter, It has the POG, has 44,000 miles on it, runs perfect.
Its fuel injected, soooo, I picked it up pretty cheap cause of the 'pog'.
No-one wants it whose in-the-know, so later on I'll just yank the motor out, put her up on the shelf for a winter project.
I'm gonna be pulling my Thunder 1500 outta my Nomad next month, Will put it in the Drifter, and put the Thunder 1600 into Nomad.
Always wanted a Drifter with a Batwing, bags and razor trunk.....

[vulcanscott]

I Thought all Drifters came with SOG !

[degreaser]

44,000 with a POG?
is that a record?

[mick56]

Originally Posted by degreaser

44,000 with a POG?
is that a record?

Not sure.Let us know if it gives out,and how far from home you are at the time though.