Due for rad fluid change

[degreaser]

I am due for a rad/coolant fluid change. In the bike now is STP Universal 50/50 Pre-Mix green ethylene glycol base that I had bought at Wal-Mart last year, I put it in last May 2012, someone on Bob is the Oil Guy told me to change the STP to Honda Type 2 Pre-Mix which is a ethylene glycol base with no silicate in it and it has phosphate for aluminum componant protection, which I gather is good. I came across somewhere that the STP Universal green has some silicate in it but no phosphate? I'm unsure about that, so I decided to purchase a gallon of the Honda Type 2 at the local Honda car dealership. I'm thinking of just draining the rad and then remove the bottle bolt on water pump to drain what's in the engine and then drain the reservoir. Do I then need to flush out the system further after that? or can I just at that point just add the Honda blue, because they're both ethylene glylcol based so any mixing of small amounts of old green to new blue should not harm anything right? Any Opinions?

[Idaho]

Lots of views but no answer. I don't have one either. Hopefully MT or Mac will spot this and jump in here. I never knew that additives in antifreeze could make a difference in these engines. Good tech question if we can get an answer.

[recumbentbob]

You don't have to flush it but I would.
Use a 50/50 mix of distilled water and white vinegar. Works great.

As far as the antifreeze goes Honda premix is good.
I prefer Engine Ice.

Bob

[degreaser]

So after you drain the 50/50 mix of distilled water and white vinegar, is that it? Will left over amounts in there of white vinegar be ok to mix with the Honda fluid?

[degreaser]

Who makes Engine Ice? I've not heard of Engine Ice before.

[recumbentbob]

Originally Posted by degreaser

Who makes Engine Ice? I've not heard of Engine Ice before.

http://www.engineice.com/

I buy it at the local Honda/Kawasaki dealer.

[Bud2rat]

Originally Posted by degreaser

Who makes Engine Ice? I've not heard of Engine Ice before.

It can be purchased at Cycle Gear as well. That's what I'm changing my to.

[MAS Tequila]

I just use the Prestone premix.

As long as it is aluminum safe, nothing else matters. I use the same thing in the 5.0 and it also has many aluminum parts.

Unless you live in an extremely hot place, and do a lot of stop and go riding, you really don't need aditives.

MT

[recumbentbob]

Engine ice is not an additive, it's antifreeze

[recumbentbob]

Originally Posted by degreaser

So after you drain the 50/50 mix of distilled water and white vinegar, is that it? Will left over amounts in there of white vinegar be ok to mix with the Honda fluid?

After I did the flush I ran some distilled water thru the system

[ringadingh]

Originally Posted by MAS Tequila

I just use the Prestone premix.

As long as it is aluminum safe, nothing else matters. I use the same thing in the 5.0 and it also has many aluminum parts.

Unless you live in an extremely hot place, and do a lot of stop and go riding, you really don't need aditives.

MT

Thats what I use as well, and my exact thoughts on additives, these are generally a cool running motor, unless your stuck in real heavy stop and go traffic. My fan rarely ever comes on unless I'm doing a lot of excessive idling on a hot day.

[Byron]

you have to watch for silica in the mix it will shorten water pump seal life

i used evans cooant same as ice. the evans don't boil until 370f i have it in a e350 van

used it in a 1200 goldwing have it in my hhr and a grandam

no problems its a zero pressure system no expansion on hoses and life time never needs

changed

[degreaser]

I was doing a Google search on antifreeze/coolants and came across this link.
http://universallubes.com/assets/upl...AF-Rainbow.pdf

It's about the Rainbow of different coolant colours, but its an old link, July 2003

But I saw something interesting in the article about mixing coolants and pH levels.

- A limit of 10% mixing of coolants is allowed by Technology Maintenance Council
I take that to mean that even after I drain the Wal-Mart bought STP Universal 50/50 pre-mix conventional green coolant presently in my rad, I probably don't need to flush the system again before installing the All Season Honda Type 2 blue, because any droplets of the STP left over in the rad will probably not exceed that 10% limit of mixing.

-conventional (Universal) green is designed to work at a pH of 8.5 - 10.5
Now a pH level of 7.0 is neutral, lower than 7 is acidic and higher is alkaline. We want alkaline levels of pH which is better than acidic right? Meaning I want my rad fluid to be in the pH levels higher than 7. But what if over time my rad fluid goes below a pH of 8.5?
But notice what the article says, it says conventional green is designed to work at coolant levels pH 8.5 and higher. To me this means that IF the conventional green fluid in my bike has a pH level that goes below 8.5, the conventional additives will not function as well. So we need a coolant that can work at a lower pH level, not higher. The article says that the higher the pH helps prevent corrosion and helps keeps addictives in solution. But to me, it means that if your coolant in your bike goes lower in the pH level, meaning it gets more acidic, then the additives in the conventional coolant will not be of any benefit to prevent corrosion right? So at this point I am thinking that the conventional coolant like the STP Universal 50/50 pre-mix is not the best coolant for my bike .

The article goes on the say, the extended life coolants can be classifided as carboxylate or hybrid. Carboxylate is another name for OAT coolant and these are designed for a pH range of 6.0 - 8.5. The hybrid uses OAT and conventional additives and operates at a pH of 7.5 - 8.5.

So out of this I gather 2 things. Number 1 is that I probably don't need to flush the system after I drain the STP conventional before putting in the Honda blue because of the 10% limit mixing rule. Number 2 is that I do want an extended life OAT coolant that will work at lower pH levels versus a conventional type coolant, because of the pH operating levels of the extended life coolant will function at the lower pH levels (at more acidic level). I want a coolant that the additives will continue to work when my bikes coolant pH levels go lower. I am also learning that I do want a coolant that also has phosphates in it but no silicone (no silicates). So yes to long-life OAT coolants, yes to phospates and no to silicone in my asian bike. Even with long life Honda Type 2 blue I entend to replace it every year.

Any Opinions on this?

[recumbentbob]

IMHO Changing antifreeze every year is not necessary.

[degreaser]

How about every 2 years