Dangerous intersections

[dantama]

I live about 1/2 a block away from an intersection that seems to have a lot of accidents. I live four floors up, and have a good view of the intersection. In the time I've lived here (just over a year) there have been 4 crashes while I was at home.

For comparison, there are four intersections I can see from here, the other three have had no accidents.

After the crash yesterday, I decided to walk over and try to figure out what was going on there?

Both streets are one way streets, and there is a slight curve, coupled with some visual obstacles. If either direction (cars going west, or cars going south, each a one way road) runs a yellow light too long and into the red, they can't see if anything is coming from the side until it's too late.

I suspect that is what is going on there. A car gets the green and pulls out, then gets slammed by a late yellow runner. Neither one could see the other till it was too late and they were already committed.

Just curious of any of you know of a particularly dangerous intersection where you see a lot of accidents, and make a mental note to watch out for that intersection?

[ringadingh]

Theres an intersection like that about 5 miles away from my home. Its on a highway where the speed limit is 50mph, but many times people are going 60-70mph on this stretch of road and when the light turns yellow, and someone tries making a left turn, they get Tboned. Ive seen many accidents there over the years.

[Idaho]

I always treat all intersections the same and wait to pull out in case someone was pushing the yellow light. It has saved me more than once. I wonder if the city's street department could reprogram those lights with longer red both ways before the alternate light goes green?

[dui546]

We actually list the "top 10 crash intersections" in our city as a matter of public information and knowledge in effort to raise awareness to these areas.

In addition to the "top 10" city wide, we break that down further for our police officers to the "top 10" in their respective precincts. We encourage the officers to maintain a "presence" in the area during high traffic hours to keep honest people honest, which will impact the total number of crashes. It doesn't always necessarily mean taking enforcement action...experience has proved that being seen while simply writing a report while parked in that area will influence driving behaviors.

[cactusjack]

Most of the REALLY dangerous intersections are across the valley from where I live, and I seldom get near them. 7th St and Bell Rd and 19th Ave and Northern Ave, both in north Phoenix. These are consistently some of the worst in the country. There are others that I hear mentioned almost daily on the traffic reports.

I don't remember this in Salt Lake, but down here they have vehicle rollovers all the time, I mean daily. I don't know how many times I've driven by an accident scene and a vehicle is either upside down or on its side.

[flightdoc]

DUI,

I have a comment/question about traffic lights and what "exactly" they mean. I was taught that a yellow light is to warn the motorist that the red is coming...and that it is not illegal to "run" a yellow light. I don't understand why someone would pull into an intersection, that obviously has a red light ( right turn on red) or someone turning left (green). If the left turning vehicle see's the light is yellow they should never assume that the thru traffic will stop for the yellow light, since they don't have to stop for yellow. I've had many "right turn on red" drivers pull in front of me while I've had the green. They assume if there's any space that they have that right, even if I have to brake to avoid striking them.

Hoping you could shed light on this. I think this is an important subject Dan has brought up.

thanks

vin

[dantama]

Originally Posted by dui546

We actually list the "top 10 crash intersections" in our city as a matter of public information and knowledge in effort to raise awareness to these areas.

.

I wish our city did that.

Here's the intersection in question. No accidents at the other three.





Bad sight lines




This bus is pulled way over the white stop line (smart thing to do at this intersection).






For a while I wondered why all the wrecks here, but I think it's just people running long yellows, and other people assuming that if the lights green, that means it's time to go.

[flightdoc]

actually my comment/question is directed to dui and any other police officer that would care to jump in.

thanks

[cactusjack]

Originally Posted by Dan Lund

I wish our city did that.

Here's the intersection in question. No accidents at the other three.





Bad sight lines




This bus is pulled way over the white stop line (smart thing to do at this intersection).






For a while I wondered why all the wrecks here, but I think it's just people running long yellows, and other people assuming that if the lights green, that means it's time to go.

That looks a little bit like Speer Blvd to me, Dan. Am I close?

[dantama]

You are right on. Speer where it crosses Downing and Corona. Corona is the bad one.

[unwind2]

Originally Posted by flightdoc

DUI,

I have a comment/question about traffic lights and what "exactly" they mean. I was taught that a yellow light is to warn the motorist that the red is coming...and that it is not illegal to "run" a yellow light. I don't understand why someone would pull into an intersection, that obviously has a red light ( right turn on red) or someone turning left (green). If the left turning vehicle see's the light is yellow they should never assume that the thru traffic will stop for the yellow light, since they don't have to stop for yellow. I've had many "right turn on red" drivers pull in front of me while I've had the green. They assume if there's any space that they have that right, even if I have to brake to avoid striking them.

Hoping you could shed light on this. I think this is an important subject Dan has brought up.

thanks

vin

Do you think that sometimes the problem is folks are out in the middle to the intersection...light is about to turn red and they get anxious to complete their left turn in fear of the cross traffic starting when thier light turns green and being stuck out in the intersection? The fear of being stuck out in the intersection making people take chances on turning that they would not ordinarily take....ie pulling out in front of somebody with the assumption...hey look buddy I got to go or I'll be stuck out here...you can stop and wait on the next green. Am I making since?

[flightdoc]

Total sense. I agree. Some of us, me included at times, take chances with that exact thing.
I would still appreciate an explaination of the yellow light question though.

[cactusjack]

Originally Posted by Dan Lund

You are right on. Speer where it crosses Downing and Corona. Corona is the bad one.

Corona good...with lime.

I know Denver fairly well. I've spent a lot of time there. The company I worked for several years ago had offices in Denver and I used to go there on business, plus I have friends and family there. I'm a big Broncos fan, too.

[cactusjack]

Yesterday I was driving my full-size Bronco, going back to my office after lunch. My office building in on the frontage road of a freeway, so I had to cross the freeway to get to it. The intersection on top of the overpass was not a "traditional" intersection, it's one of those newer types called a "SPUI".

I was heading west, across the freeway turning left onto the frontage road, so I was in the inside left turn lane. Traffic doesn't stop in the actual intersection, so I had a green light and was making my turn (a big arc, not a 90 degree turn) and there was some old lady in a compact car who had been heading east, just stopped in my lane. She looked at me in my lifted Bronco like a deer in the headlights - totally confused. Yet she acted like I was the one who was in the wrong place.

I had to wait for the other left turn lane to have an opening in order to go around her. These are the folks that scare me when on the bike. They are unpredictable. She was about 75 feet in front of where she should have been, waiting for her light.

[dui546]

Originally Posted by flightdoc

DUI,

I have a comment/question about traffic lights and what "exactly" they mean. I was taught that a yellow light is to warn the motorist that the red is coming...and that it is not illegal to "run" a yellow light. I don't understand why someone would pull into an intersection, that obviously has a red light ( right turn on red) or someone turning left (green). If the left turning vehicle see's the light is yellow they should never assume that the thru traffic will stop for the yellow light, since they don't have to stop for yellow. I've had many "right turn on red" drivers pull in front of me while I've had the green. They assume if there's any space that they have that right, even if I have to brake to avoid striking them.

Hoping you could shed light on this. I think this is an important subject Dan has brought up.

thanks

vin

Excellent Question VIN!

Passing through an intersection during a yellow light is not a violation of the law. Most of the major (4 lane or more) intersections in our city have 4 second yellow and 1-2 second all red lighting configurations. I know this as a crash investigator because we need that data for specific intersections when investigating fatal crashes. In addition, we also need to know the light cycle and if it was working properly or if any changes were made on the light on that date along with the days before and after the crash. In other words, we establish the operational history of the traffic light.

There is a "stop bar" typically painted on the roadways in Virginia and across the USA. The code is basically enforced that if your vehicle is behind the stop bar when the light turns red you must stop. If it is across that bar then you are technically in the intersection and you must clear that area which means you have somewhat of an argument that it was your duty to pass through the intersection. The yellow light is a signal that warns drivers that the light is about to be red and that they should slow their vehicle in preparation for a stop. It does not mean "speed up" so that you can make it. (That is like trying to out run a train at a rail road crossing!)

I apply my personal logic and officer discretion to it in this way, if your front wheels are behind the stop bar, you must stop. I've never had a disregarding a red light charge that met that standard dismissed in court. In addition, vehicles making a right on red are "required to stop" first. It is the same standard that applies to a stop sign.

The problem is...if you run a red light and a vehicle is traveling at the posted speed limit when its light is green or cycles to green, it has no requirement to slow down or stop. That has to be a Commercial Motor Vehicle / 18-wheel truck driver's worst nightmare.

If you look at the vehicle speed, plus 1.5 second average reaction time, and distances required to stop, you can easily see that a vehicle's velocity in fps means that distances between vehicles at an intersection can be closed in a very short amount of time. Hence, there is, more often than not, absolutely not enough time or distance for an oncoming vehicle to stop when a vehicle "runs" a red light.

I am including two tables below that really show the amount of time needed to stop at various speeds. I use these in my traffic safety presentations.





Let me know if this information answered your question VIN.