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Old 08-23-2017, 02:56 PM   #1
VulcanJeff   VulcanJeff is offline
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Fuel Injection System's Self-diagnostics

Anyone ever run the self-diagnostics to discern fuel injection errors? My FI light came on a couple of weeks ago. (I will chronicle those woes in a different thread).

Per the factory manual: pull the ECU, pull the dummy cap to expose the eight underlying terminals, specifically #37 (while leaving the two big black/white connectors connected), jumper terminal #37 to the battery negative terminal and turn on the ignition.

Turning on the ignition is supposed to result in the FI diagnostics kicking off. The FI LED is supposed to blink out the error codes. When I turn on my ignition, all I get is the typical start-up routine: fuel pump energizes, oil pressure and fuel injection LEDs light up etc. The manual says within 3 seconds, the diagnostics begin. My FI LED goes out but never begins to blink any code(s).

I'm using an alligator-clipped jumper between term 37 and battery neg post. I've checked the jumper for continuity. I've tried different jumpers. Terminal #37 is bright/shiny and free of corrosion. Ditto for the battery terminal.

Perhaps worth noting is after I turn on the ignition and the start-up procedure completes, the FI LED goes out, which is what we want it to do! It indicates no faults were found in the FI components. That said, a person could conclude there are no errors for the LED to blink out and maybe that is the reason why I don't see the self-diagnosis kick off.

But not so fast! The factory manual's DFI chapter is very comprehensive. I said on the forum the other day a caveman could do it! Anyway, there is a small section titled "How To Erase Fault Codes". It says "When the repair has been done, the LED light will not show fault codes any more". "But even if the repair has been done, the ignition switch turned OFF, the battery is disconnected, all the fault codes remain in the ECU, which need not be absolutely erased". The English/grammar is a little rough, haha, but I quote it word for word.

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Old 08-25-2017, 01:15 AM   #2
denny 606   denny 606 is offline
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Originally Posted by VulcanJeff View Post
Anyone ever run the self-diagnostics to discern fuel injection errors? My FI light came on a couple of weeks ago. (I will chronicle those woes in a different thread).

Per the factory manual: pull the ECU, pull the dummy cap to expose the eight underlying terminals, specifically #37 (while leaving the two big black/white connectors connected), jumper terminal #37 to the battery negative terminal and turn on the ignition.

Turning on the ignition is supposed to result in the FI diagnostics kicking off. The FI LED is supposed to blink out the error codes. When I turn on my ignition, all I get is the typical start-up routine: fuel pump energizes, oil pressure and fuel injection LEDs light up etc. The manual says within 3 seconds, the diagnostics begin. My FI LED goes out but never begins to blink any code(s).



I'm using an alligator-clipped jumper between term 37 and battery neg post. I've checked the jumper for continuity. I've tried different jumpers. Terminal #37 is bright/shiny and free of corrosion. Ditto for the battery terminal.

Perhaps worth noting is after I turn on the ignition and the start-up procedure completes, the FI LED goes out, which is what we want it to do! It indicates no faults were found in the FI components. That said, a person could conclude there are no errors for the LED to blink out and maybe that is the reason why I don't see the self-diagnosis kick off.

But not so fast! The factory manual's DFI chapter is very comprehensive. I said on the forum the other day a caveman could do it! Anyway, there is a small section titled "How To Erase Fault Codes". It says "When the repair has been done, the LED light will not show fault codes any more". "But even if the repair has been done, the ignition switch turned OFF, the battery is disconnected, all the fault codes remain in the ECU, which need not be absolutely erased". The English/grammar is a little rough, haha, but I quote it word for word.

Not sure on the bike diagnostics but on auto motive there are Soft codes which I take to be intermittent and hard code that causes a check engine light to come on ( in our case an F.I. Light)and stay on. I know that hard codes are stored , not so sure about a soft code since this system is read out like the Old obd 1 diagnostics code which wasn't the best at storing soft codes. I'd take a digital v.o.m. With a sweep function and test the voltage on the tps paying attention for a dead spot in it . TPS codes are notorious for not showing up under diagnostics.

Has it done it any more and did it hiccup or anything unusual? I don't envy you because intermittent electronic gremlins are the hardest to chase down. My thinking is button it up and run it and see if it happens again. If it's not broken it's really hard to fix. Good luck !
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Old 08-25-2017, 05:47 AM   #3
MAS Tequila   MAS Tequila is offline
 
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First, why are you messing with it?

Do you have a problem?

It it's just for shits and giggles, put it back together and ride.

If there IS an issue, what is it?

Ninety nine percent of owners will never need to check the codes.

The 1500's system isn't as user friendly as the 1600 and 1700's.

It's easy to fry something if your playing with it.

So , I guess my advice is, If it aint broke don't mess with it.

You're tempting fate, it's way too easy to touch the wrong terminal and kill it.
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Old 08-25-2017, 07:54 PM   #4
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Oh no, no sir, not just playing around with diagnostics for the sake of playing around with them. There was a hiccup. I never got around to putting up a different thread so I shall divulge the dilemma here:

Weeks ago, Independence day to be exact, it looked like major rain at any moment. Mid-afternoon the sky looked gentle so I decided to try to take a short ride around town. I hit the car wash while I was out. After the wash, she started up ok. I don't recall if it died while idling as I was preparing to pull out of the bay but through the course of buzzing around town I experienced it not wanting to idle as I rolled to a stop sign, chopped throttle and clutch lever pulled in. It started right back up but had a tendency to want to die unless I was flicking the throttle or held it steady at about 1500-2000 RPM. It ran ok, pulled hard/normal, cruised at a constant speed with no sputter or surge or anything abnormal. I came to two or three stop signs between the car wash and home. The time in between was spent on a back road cruising at a constant speed. My thoughts was something got a little too wet. My HOPE was it would dry itself out!

July 4th was a Tuesday. I didn't get her out until 3 days later after work. She fired right up, idled normal, didn't throw a single fit the whole evening of stop and go traffic in town. Never did the FI light come on.

I hate car washes but I seem to cave in to all the shiny chrome and purty black paint. The tap water at my house is on the hard side and spots easily. I am not zealous enough to polish my bike after every washing. So, I opt for the car washes which boast spot free rinse and one in particular that has a reverse vacuum cleaner in it. For $1.75 I get 5 minutes of a blow hose to blow all the spot-free water off my bike! Haha.

OK so, 4th of July was weeeeks ago. No problems at all - until a couple of weeks ago. You guessed it! After a careful washing at the car wash I pulled away and down the road with no problems. She started fine, idled fine and I went a couple of tenths of a mile and came to a stop sign. The throttle was at an idle, clutch disengaged as I waited for traffic to clear. Bam. She died. Ruh roh, I must have gotten carried away in the area of one of the electro gizmo doodads and something got wet again. Same situation as before: it didn't want to idle unless I was flicking the throttle or holding it steady in the 1500-2000 RPM range. I was 45 miles from home. I coaxed her through 3 or 4 stop lights before I got out on the highway for the long ride home. I was hopeful whatever seemed to have gotten wet would dry out scooting down the highway. About 30 miles later the FI light came on! Frankly I felt relieved. At least I could pull code(s) and be sure of the sensor/component that was bombing out.

After the FI light came on, I found a place to pull over safely. I turned the ignition off, hoping when I started the bike again the FI light wouldn't come on. No such luck. And the idling problem persisted. I took off for home. About 4 miles down the road the FI light went out. As I rode through town on my way to my house the idling issue reared its ugly head at each stop sign. I got home, parked it, and crossed my fingers that as it sat in the garage Monday through Friday it would dry out, as before, and not be a problem come Friday night.

I began reading up on the fuel injection section in the manual. The diagnostics looked easy enough and to be honest the method for checking resistance on the sensors did too. I didn't have any needle probe adapters for my vohm meter yet. That said, one evening I pulled the seat and just eyeballed everything to get my bearing on where stuff was located etc. The FI main fuse is right there on the battery bracket so I pulled it for shits and grins. It was terribly tarnished. Not super corroded but just a good solid gray dull tarnish. I brightened it up with a wire brush and did the same for the other 15 amp fuse that sets right next to the FI fuse. I wondered what the odds were of the problem being solved. Hmmm....I fired it up and it idled fine and the FI light didn't come on, rather STAY on. I rode around town for 15 minutes with no issues. I was elated!

Fast forward a few more days to Saturday, this past Saturday actually. I had ridden a few hours the evening before with no issues. I rode most of the day Saturday, approx 120 miles, and had no issues. I had stopped at a roadside park for a break. When I fired back up to roll out, I suddenly realized the FI light was on! No, I had not been to the car wash ;) since the week before haha. Even though the light was on, it idled a-ok. What the heck? Anyway, I took off on the remaining 60 miles of my ride home. The FI light was lit the entire way. I had the dying issue at a few of the stop signs I encountered. It didn't die EVERY time at EVERY stop sign, just randomly I guess you could say. Accelerating through the gears, riding at a constant steady speed, it was running fine if not great. But randomly it would choose to die while idling at a stop sign. All that stuff went down on Saturday. Sunday came and I didn't bother to get the ol' girl out. I was kind of depressed LOL!

First thing I did Monday morning was find some needle probe adapters for my meter in preparation for some diagnosing. Again, I was optimistic cuz the FI light had come on and even remained on the entire ride home. A few nights ago I dove in and ran the diagnostics. Geez, you simply jumper terminal 37 to battery negative and count the blinks, right? But it wouldn't blink. The diagnostics didn't seem to be running. As soon as I turned on the ignition, all the usual stuff unfolded (as stated in my original post above) and I was left with the oil pressure LED lit up. The FI LED was not lit up.

So I dunno, I'm confused as well as ignorant. Ignorant of just exactly how the ECU handles the codes and subsequent diagnostics. I'm assuming that due to the pre-startup gyrations the bike goes through when you turn on the ignition resulting in the FI LED NOT being on, then there are no errors, thus no codes to pull? But, the manual specifically says there is no way or NO NEED to erase the codes. At wits end, I just buttoned up the ECU and slapped the seat back on and rolled her over to my Battery
Tender and went inside LOL! It is finally Friday night, time for my usual blast around town. I'm about to see what she has to offer. More to come I suppose.....
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Last edited by VulcanJeff; 08-25-2017 at 07:57 PM.
 
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Old 08-26-2017, 06:57 AM   #5
MAS Tequila   MAS Tequila is offline
 
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Ok, let me ask a possibly dumb question.

After you cleaned the fuses did you clean the fuse holder connecting points?

This sounds like an electrical issue where the power to the FI is not as strong as it needs to be.

Look for other places the power could be interrupted.
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Old 08-26-2017, 11:18 AM   #6
denny 606   denny 606 is offline
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Originally Posted by MAS Tequila View Post
Ok, let me ask a possibly dumb question.

After you cleaned the fuses did you clean the fuse holder connecting points?

This sounds like an electrical issue where the power to the FI is not as strong as it needs to be.

Look for other places the power could be interrupted.
I'm with him and thinking back on it, I had a similar problem with the FI pump fuse, I had to clean the holder with some sand paper and put a mew fuse in with no corrosion and a little dielectric grease to seal things off,no more problem.
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Old 08-26-2017, 02:28 PM   #7
VulcanJeff   VulcanJeff is offline
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Originally Posted by MAS Tequila View Post
Ok, let me ask a possibly dumb question.

After you cleaned the fuses did you clean the fuse holder connecting points?

This sounds like an electrical issue where the power to the FI is not as strong as it needs to be.

Look for other places the power could be interrupted.
It is not a dumb question. Sometimes the "dumb" or simple questions are the ones we ourselves often overlook. Hence the value of people on a forum to bounce things off of! No, I didn't exactly clean the connecting points. I simply pulled/pushed the fuse 15 or 20 times. This is something I will have to address on a widespread basis just as you said.

Denny, you mentioned a sweep function test previously. I may have to explore that option. The problem seems to be associated to the throttle position sensor.

Last evening I spent a couple hours buzzing around town and racked up 25 or 30 miles. She started fine ice cold, warmed up in the driveway just fine, no FI light, I hit the road and had no problems. For what it is worth, the temp was about 70 when I took off from home and dropped a few degrees as the sun set. I rode about 30 minutes, stopped for about 10 minutes, rode another 30, stopped another 10, rode another 30 minutes and stopped for about 30 minutes at the park to have a beer and check in on some baseball game scores. When I fired up and took off for the 5 minute ride home, the FI light came on after riding a couple hundred feet. About a half mile later I came to my first stop sign. Sure enough she tried to die on me as I coasted with clutch lever pulled and throttle chopped. The FI light remained lit for another 3/4 mile and then went out! Half mile later was a stop light. It was green which allowed me to roll through it in 2nd gear while making a left hand turn. I was off the throttle and the engine tried to die about halfway through the turn but I barely flicked the throttle in time. The FI light remained out the rest of my ride home. The engine died on me as I rolled into my driveway. I didn't bother trying to run the self-diagnostics once I got in the garage. If the light had remained on I would have.
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Old 08-26-2017, 02:56 PM   #8
denny 606   denny 606 is offline
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It is not a dumb question. Sometimes the "dumb" or simple questions are the ones we ourselves often overlook. Hence the value of people on a forum to bounce things off of! No, I didn't exactly clean the connecting points. I simply pulled/pushed the fuse 15 or 20 times. This is something I will have to address on a widespread basis just as you said.

Denny, you mentioned a sweep function test previously. I may have to explore that option. The problem seems to be associated to the throttle position sensor.

Last evening I spent a couple hours buzzing around town and racked up 25 or 30 miles. She started fine ice cold, warmed up in the driveway just fine, no FI light, I hit the road and had no problems. For what it is worth, the temp was about 70 when I took off from home and dropped a few degrees as the sun set. I rode about 30 minutes, stopped for about 10 minutes, rode another 30, stopped another 10, rode another 30 minutes and stopped for about 30 minutes at the park to have a beer and check in on some baseball game scores. When I fired up and took off for the 5 minute ride home, the FI light came on after riding a couple hundred feet. About a half mile later I came to my first stop sign. Sure enough she tried to die on me as I coasted with clutch lever pulled and throttle chopped. The FI light remained lit for another 3/4 mile and then went out! Half mile later was a stop light. It was green which allowed me to roll through it in 2nd gear while making a left hand turn. I was off the throttle and the engine tried to die about halfway through the turn but I barely flicked the throttle in time. The FI light remained out the rest of my ride home. The engine died on me as I rolled into my driveway. I didn't bother trying to run the self-diagnostics once I got in the garage. If the light had remained on I would have.
Hmm, if you believe it to be temp related, check the connection on the air intake sensor on the back side of the fake air cleaner on the right side if you still have the stock setup or wherever it is located now if you have a big air kit. That sensor will absolutely keep your bike from running if it's loose or broken. I'd rather not say how I know this but it's worth checking. If I did tell I'd have to thumb thru that file Labeled " Stupid Crap I need to remember never to do again" it's kind of thick and I don't like looking through it.
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Old 08-26-2017, 05:46 PM   #9
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Fault code 12 = vacuum sensor!

I decided to get out and ride around town to try gathering more clues/symptoms. It didn't take long! First I experienced the engine dying while idling in a parking lot. The FI light had not been lit up though. I was able to stop at the parking lot exit and idle without it dying. On down the road it did die at a stop sign but still no FI light on. Moments after pulling away from the stop sign the FI light came on. I boogied down the road to a turning around place, came to a stop, idled just fine without dying yet the FI light was still on. Geez, no consistency with this black hussy! At that point all I wanted to do was get home while the FI light was on in hopes of the self-diagnostics actually kicking off.

The light stayed on all the way home and the diagnostics kicked off. Maybe they actually ran this time because the Fi system was in a state of fault?? Dunno, but it is clearly a fault code 12, vacuum sensor.

I finally got to use my needle probes woohoo! Vacuum sensor input voltage at the ECU was within range at 4.94 volts. Next step, per the manual, check input voltage at the sensor connector. As soon as the engine cools off I am going to pull the tank and do just that.

If input voltage at the sensor connector is good, next step is check is to go back to the ECU and check output voltage. Since I hadn't pulled the tank yet, I went ahead and checked output voltage at the ECU and got nuttin. Zero. No volts.

As soon as I get the tank out of the way, I should know the complete diagnosis within 30 seconds. If I am lucky, I will find a crappy connection at the connector/sensor. I should be able to clean it up and hit the road! Worst case scenario: the sensor is bad and I pry $100 from my wallet for a new one. And that really wouldn't be all that bad considering if it was a throttle position sensor - as it first seemed - I would be looking at $1,000! I was looking at the parts fiche online. The throttle position sensor is attached to the throttle body at the factory, they come as an assembly. Gulp. One thousand dollars. I guess I'm feeling pretty ok after all!
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Old 09-04-2017, 07:59 PM   #10
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Get a new battery problem solved, ask me how I know this?
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Old 09-06-2017, 12:18 PM   #11
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Fault code 12 = vacuum sensor!

I decided to get out and ride around town to try gathering more clues/symptoms. It didn't take long! First I experienced the engine dying while idling in a parking lot. The FI light had not been lit up though. I was able to stop at the parking lot exit and idle without it dying. On down the road it did die at a stop sign but still no FI light on. Moments after pulling away from the stop sign the FI light came on. I boogied down the road to a turning around place, came to a stop, idled just fine without dying yet the FI light was still on. Geez, no consistency with this black hussy! At that point all I wanted to do was get home while the FI light was on in hopes of the self-diagnostics actually kicking off.

The light stayed on all the way home and the diagnostics kicked off. Maybe they actually ran this time because the Fi system was in a state of fault?? Dunno, but it is clearly a fault code 12, vacuum sensor.

I finally got to use my needle probes woohoo! Vacuum sensor input voltage at the ECU was within range at 4.94 volts. Next step, per the manual, check input voltage at the sensor connector. As soon as the engine cools off I am going to pull the tank and do just that.

If input voltage at the sensor connector is good, next step is check is to go back to the ECU and check output voltage. Since I hadn't pulled the tank yet, I went ahead and checked output voltage at the ECU and got nuttin. Zero. No volts.

As soon as I get the tank out of the way, I should know the complete diagnosis within 30 seconds. If I am lucky, I will find a crappy connection at the connector/sensor. I should be able to clean it up and hit the road! Worst case scenario: the sensor is bad and I pry $100 from my wallet for a new one. And that really wouldn't be all that bad considering if it was a throttle position sensor - as it first seemed - I would be looking at $1,000! I was looking at the parts fiche online. The throttle position sensor is attached to the throttle body at the factory, they come as an assembly. Gulp. One thousand dollars. I guess I'm feeling pretty ok after all!
Life finally got out of my way and allowed me to get back on track. I finally got the tank pulled this past Saturday. Long story short: I apparently had connection issues. Per the manual, my voltage readings pointed to connectivity issues. Though I didn't visually find what appeared to be a bad connection, I cleaned the f00k out of everything relevant. Buttoned her all back up, have ridden 200 miles so far and haven't had any idling issues nor has the FI light glowed in my face. I am cautiously optimistic. It will take some time and miles before I am fully convinced the electrical gremlins have been exorcised.
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Old 09-06-2017, 12:29 PM   #12
VulcanJeff   VulcanJeff is offline
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Oh believe me, I wondered if I was going to have to contend with such a possibility.
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