Swapping 1600 into an 03 1500cc Nomad

[colin]

Well, got some time to myself (obviously it's been a while) to work on this thing today. Was putting the cases back together, and noticed that in one of the bottom cavities of the case, there was a little pin sitting in the bottom. Took a minute and fished it out, when I realized there was ANOTHER pin in the same cavity, just sitting there. Does anyone know what these go to? I've found 2, but sealing this thing back up without knowing what those belong to feels like a bad idea.

Anyone know where these go? I didn't notice them the first time I sealed up the case, so I sort of consider myself lucky that I caught it this time...

For reference sake, the cavity I found them is the one in the picture.

[colin]

Found 'em, or at least I think I did. Water pump idle shaft pins.

[colin]

Found some time to work on the engine. Went to install the cylinders, but as I bring the cylinders down over the piston (with rings compressed), it pretty much instantly sticks as soon as the rings get a bite on the cylinder walls. On a car engine, typically, I'd just rap the piston down into the cylinder with the handle of a hammer, however, it's a lot more cumbersome doing it to an entire cylinder, and I really don't want to damage anything where gasket surfaces are involved.

Any suggestions for how the pros do it? ;)

[mick56]

Originally Posted by colin

Found some time to work on the engine. Went to install the cylinders, but as I bring the cylinders down over the piston (with rings compressed), it pretty much instantly sticks as soon as the rings get a bite on the cylinder walls. On a car engine, typically, I'd just rap the piston down into the cylinder with the handle of a hammer, however, it's a lot more cumbersome doing it to an entire cylinder, and I really don't want to damage anything where gasket surfaces are involved.

Any suggestions for how the pros do it? ;)

I am guessing the rings have to be in a certain position on the piston to slide in.In as much as,one with the gap facing forward,another facing backwards possibly ?There should be square tits on the piston to let you know where they belong. Some old 2 strokes were a bit fussy that way.Try rotating the rings as you lower the barrel.

[mick56]

Google is the best secretary you will ever have.Bill Clinton wished he was so smart.https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fi...hrome&ie=UTF-8

[colin]

I must have phrased that badly. Also, while that piston ring video may be helpful to those asking how to install piston rings in a car engine, or an engine where the cylinder is already secured to the block, it doesn't help when the piston is already secured to the rod, sticking out of the case.

So, first off, long story short, I figured out and accomplished what I needed to do. But, to rephrase my problem, once the cylinder (jug) was being lowered over the (already attached to the rod/crank...) piston, as soon as the piston rings move forward enough to come free of the ring compressor, the piston itself wedges itself in place, effectively seizing in place. The solution, was just using a bunch of oil in the cylinder walls and piston rings, and using a 2x4, evenly laying over the top of the cylinder bore to move it into place.

Also, for those in need of a cheap ring compressor, a 4" screw type hose clamp seemed to work great. It was shallow enough that it wasn't getting in the way, but could easily be completely undone when removing it (after the piston's installed).

[DragonLady58]

be careful, a 4" hose clamp can scratch the hell outta your pistons, if not used correctly....

[colin]

Originally Posted by DragonLady58

be careful, a 4" hose clamp can scratch the hell outta your pistons, if not used correctly....

Definitely was careful using it. Basically only tightened it as much as needed to still allow the piston and rings to slide within it.

[stpbuzz]

questions:
will the 1500 stator cover fit the 1600 ?
will the 1500 rotor be used or the 1600?
will the (2) 1500 stators be used ?
if so,
all that is needed it the :
gear, balancer, part #16085-0023 46T,
for everything to go. or more ?

THANKS
stpbuzz

Originally Posted by colin

Interesting.... So, I took a look on partzilla, and there actually DOES seem to be a part number difference between the 1500 and 1600 gears.

The part number for the 1500 Nomad is 16085-1307. Link here
The part number for the 1600 Nomad is 16085-0023. Link here

Being that they're different part numbers, I'd assume that accounts for the different diameters. :/ I guess I'll need to get searching for a used gear, as they're $200 for a new one it appears.

EDIT: Looks like even on ebay they're listed as slightly different. Was able to find a used one for $50, so it'll be here in a week. Hopefully then I'll have some definitive answers. :)

So, for the moment, what I've deduced is that everything is a straight across swap for the dual stators EXCEPT for that gear, and that's only if you're using a Mean Streak engine. One of the small gotchas. Also - apologies for all the super detailed updates. Figure this may serve to answer some of these questions in the future for others.

[stpbuzz]

i'm stumped when it comes to this wiring on the stator/regulator for 1 to 1, or the 2 to 2, if ya plug one in what do ya have to do to get things 1 to 1 ?

stpbuzz

Originally Posted by colin

Oh I completely agree with the idea that a single stator is probably sufficient. Just figured if the stock engine has the dual setup, that'd I'd retain it if it was easy enough (just moving some wiring from one to another).

As far as the final drive, does the driveshaft actually have issues fitting? I've heard that the only affect that a MS engine should have would be that the rpm's would be higher due to the slightly lower gearing. Are the connections for the shaft actually different?

Oh, and as I was asking before, would you have any idea of any special tuning would be involved? I think that's what I'm most concerned about, assuming the driveshaft still fits. LOL

[stpbuzz]

rode the 1500 over to my sons house sat. put the 1600 meanie motor in.
all wires were plug and play, (except the extra stator wire).
no start. no spark. everything worked Saturday, why not now.?

disgusted, im a nut & bolt dude, not an electrical person.

one wire to the right coil has voltage, but nothing out of the plug wire side.
only had time to check that far into it, didn't get to the left coil yet. maybe tomorrow, (Thursday).


sure wish I could check the compression and the tranny before putting any $$$$$$$ into it.

it cranks and cranks, and all the lights and horn work, everything seems to work but no spark.

disgusted,
stpbuzz

[DragonLady58]

sounds like the electronic ignition isn't firing....call MAS....tell him what all you've done...., he'll help you out....

[denny 606]

I'm no expert by any means but i do know when i was testing for a failed stator on my 1500fi ,i pulled the cover off to check for AC voltage from the stator while running the bike would fire of and run with one of the two stator plugs unhooked. I tested the stator that was un hooked and it showed good to go. I plugged it back up and the bike wouldn't even fire with the othe stator unplugged and that stator tested bad. Plugged them both back up and it fired right off again. Led me to the conclusion that both wiring harness plugs have to be in the circuit for everything to work properly and charge as well. I'd be figuring out how the two frame harness connections have to be joined together to both run the ignition and charge the bike. Apparently your ignition is on the harness that is unplugged. Forgive me for jumping in here late on this but i just thought I'd throw that out there for you to check. I hope i read correctly that one plug is not plugged up. Like DL said Mas knows this stuff pretty well as bad as I hate to brag on him you are almost there don't give up yet.

Like the Dead said "What a long strange trip it's been" for you. I've been following this thread because my 1500 has over 80k on it and I've not been easy on it. I figure i might have to do what you're doing before long myself.

[DragonLady58]

Its a double to what Denny said....I've seen more folks having problems troubleshooting their charging systems and ign. systems after a engine swap.
This is often very challanging for most folks that have limited mech. skills and knowdledge....
If, if you back track the charging leads back into the main wiring harness, you can see where they connect into said harness. The stators are the same, wither your running 1 stator or 2 on your engine. All the 1500s are the same, the single stator engines are installed in bikes the run the same ign, systems, same lights, same horn, same starter, same speedo, same button on the handlebar configurations.
Several Nomads I've bought to rebuild had charging issues. I had merged the wires between the stators up under the seat, and have had them run successfully without burning things up.
I don't condone this all the time, but if your adapting 1 system to another, you sometimes gotta do it.
Twin stators are fine, its a good heavy, duty system till stators burn out, regs, go out and you toast your charging system from dirty connections under that left cover....
The big vulcans are very sensitive to the volts going to the ignition systems.
If, you know how to read the wiring schmatic in the repair book, and you start tracing back the charging leads in the harness....your like WTF is going on here!!!!
On your stators, if the leads aren't grounded out/shorted, if you have the necessary voltage while running, and the regulator is working as it should, Your bike can run on one stator....simplifing your double dilemma....

[MAS Tequila]

Just buy the gear and use the dual set up.

You’re just asking for trouble and heartache listening to people who have never and will never dig that far into their bikes.

I’ll state this one last time, you cannot plug one rectifier plug into one stator, with the other unplugged and have your Nomad operate correctly