"REDS" P.O.G. just went out

[danimal2]

Originally Posted by Snake Ranch

The first question I have is, what is the condition the the mating gear...the gear that drove this gear. So I am guessing it is ok because I didn't read anything describing its condition.

Gear teeth "just don't strip off".

There is a good reason. Cause and effect. Something caused this to happen. The gear you see is the effect from the cause.

I would question the gear you have in your fingers and ask if it was heat treated properly or at all. When they are made they are soft so they can be machined. Then they should go out for heat treatment.

With what remains of the gear teeth on the gear body, a good machine shop should be able to tell you how hard those gear teeth are. They would use a Rockwell tester and it is a simple process that takes 2 or 3 minutes.

The shop should also be able to tell you what the hardness should be. If you check around I would look for a "gear" shop. Somebody that has a good background in making gears. Here in town we have a shop that only makes gears. I have made gear blanks, sent the gears out to be hobbed, then out for heat treatment.

They next question would be to ask if the gear was made out of the correct material. They should be able to give you an idea if it is a good stock to use for making gears. Because the manufacture could have used a soft material that was inappropriate for this application.

After you get your ducks in a row I would contact the manufacture of the gear and ask them to explain what gives with their product.

My best guess, they didn't do something correct when making this gear.

The backside of the clutch basket gear looks fine. I can't speak to the other questions. At this point it's really not worth pursuing the rest of it.

I put this up mainly so that others know what can happen. Not necessarily will happen, but can.

Apparently the video from page 4 isn't playing like I'd hoped. Basically it shows that although the screws that hold the JOG on were still tight, there was a lot of play in the gear itself. Not sure why that is/was.

https://www.facebook.com/dan.haase.3...22144526921709

[DragonLady58]

[QUOTE=minst7877;673856]Multiply your estimate by 3 and you will be a whole lot closer to the right price. Almost 1800 just in parts for mine plus what I paid the tech.

DC
On a std overhaul, depending on what she needs, rings, other parts, shop labor, looking at about $1500-$1800 bill....if you pay makawas parts prices for factory pieces. Knock a few hundred off that if you go with Wiseco rings, Barnett discs, you'll want kawa rod & crank bearings, touch up the valve seats, etc....

Yea, gear shouldn't have done that. By the looks of things and the clutch basket gear, the oil pump gear wasn't hardened correctly, possible tooth profile wasn't cut correctly. Notice the basket gear doesn't have any wear? Inferior gear. Possibly a cheap Bejing special.
With all those small metal shards in the lower end now, its wise to go for a complete teardown. That 'Hole from Hell' right below & behind the basket probable has some of that mess down in it.
With the amount of money invested in a rebuild, and a completely good rolling chassis....you could go with a later bike, its wintertime, prices will be good for picking up a later FI model of your liking, post your chassis for sale on Fleabay and/or Traigslist. That will recoop some money there. OR, keep it as a parts bike, selling what you don't want or need....

[danimal2]

Actually this is prime riding time in Arizona. Bike prices tend to be higher now. Thanks for your input.

I'm going to chance it. If she stoves up. I'll sell it as a parts bike and find another.

[Bud2rat]

Originally Posted by danimal2

I've always liked your bike. Hopefully (with any luck) I won't have to replace it with anything.

I seriously looked at the Voyagers. They're more money, but I like em. Also kinda toyed with the idea of a Victory if/when I go to replace mine. Obviously both those would be considerably more money.

I checked your profile. Where are the photos of that new ride?

I haven't had any time to ride it, yet along take photos, busy with work. But, I'll get some posted.

[rolfe]

Originally Posted by danimal2

Actually this is prime riding time in Arizona. Bike prices tend to be higher now. Thanks for your input.

I'm going to chance it. If she stoves up. I'll sell it as a parts bike and find another.

My opinion is that there was vibration on the the gear due to the fact it was in constant contact with the Clutch. etc.....

$100 for parts to mig weld a OEM steel oil pump gear would be my first choice.

[danimal2]

On mine the gear got all slopped out somehow. I didn't really scrutinize it, but the screws were both tight and what was left of the gear was super loose on the shaft.



All tallied up it ended up being more like $155 for me. $75 for the gear and $80 for the machine work to prep it. Probably got gouged a little there, but they did do a nice job and it's pretty much an exact fit. No way to get it on there crooked due to the close tolerance of the hole they made and the shaft. Darned near an interference fit.

I don't suppose you have any photos of the finished (welded) product prior to putting the clutch and cover back on?

Originally Posted by rolfe

My opinion is that there was vibration on the the gear due to the fact it was in constant contact with the Clutch. etc.....

$100 for parts to mig weld a OEM steel oil pump gear would be my first choice.

[rolfe]

I paid the welder after the parts of $100. so if you just paid $80 for a certified welder that is a very reasonable price. I will look for some finished pictures as the one I have one in my phone, but is blurry. The welder did smooth out the bead. Ride On

Originally Posted by danimal2

On mine the gear got all slopped out somehow. I didn't really scrutinize it, but the screws were both tight and what was left of the gear was super loose on the shaft.

All tallied up it ended up being more like $155 for me. $75 for the gear and $80 for the machine work to prep it. Probably got gouged a little there, but they did do a nice job and it's pretty much an exact fit. No way to get it on there crooked due to the close tolerance of the hole they made and the shaft. Darned near an interference fit.

I don't suppose you have any photos of the finished (welded) product prior to putting the clutch and cover back on?

[danimal2]

I'm welding my own. The $80 is what the machine shop charged me to prep the SOG. I've been practicing the weld on the old JOG and shaft. Mostly just trying to get my welder dialed in and mimicking the angle it's going to be sitting at when on the bike so I know I can get comfortable. Don't want to mess the thing up after all this. My welder is a Hobart 140 advertised to weld 1/4" thickness in one pass (max) and it's going to be welding on the max amp setting and the wire feed speed dialed back so I can slow my travel speed down some. The SOG is about 1/4" thick and the shaft is solid and 1/2" diameter or so, so it'll be pushing it. Pretty confident I can get good penetration and a decent enough weld. It's probably only 2" of weld when all is said and done, but it's a pretty important 2" and I only get one shot at it.

[rolfe]

This is the only picture I have available to me right now. Its blurry for sure but you can see the weld to a degree before welder smoothed it off. There were 3 of us working on the SOG.

Originally Posted by danimal2

I'm welding my own. The $80 is what the machine shop charged me to prep the SOG. I've been practicing the weld on the old JOG and shaft. Mostly just trying to get my welder dialed in and mimicking the angle it's going to be sitting at when on the bike so I know I can get comfortable. Don't want to mess the thing up after all this. My welder is a Hobart 140 advertised to weld 1/4" thickness in one pass (max) and it's going to be welding on the max amp setting and the wire feed speed dialed back so I can slow my travel speed down some. The SOG is about 1/4" thick and the shaft is solid and 1/2" or so, so it'll be pushing it. Pretty confident I can get good penetration and a decent enough weld. It's probably only 2" of weld when all is said and done, but it's a pretty important 2" and I only get one shot at it.

[mick56]

Originally Posted by rolfe

This is the only picture I have available to me right now. Its blurry for sure but you can see the weld to a degree before welder smoothed it off. There were 3 of us working on the SOG.

If the machining is correct,as you would assume it to be.The welding ought to be a relatively simple job surely.Even superglue would be a better fix than the convoluted JOG bullshit.

[Snake Ranch]

Originally Posted by danimal2

I'm welding my own. The $80 is what the machine shop charged me to prep the SOG. I've been practicing the weld on the old JOG and shaft. Mostly just trying to get my welder dialed in and mimicking the angle it's going to be sitting at when on the bike so I know I can get comfortable. Don't want to mess the thing up after all this. My welder is a Hobart 140 advertised to weld 1/4" thickness in one pass (max) and it's going to be welding on the max amp setting and the wire feed speed dialed back so I can slow my travel speed down some. The SOG is about 1/4" thick and the shaft is solid and 1/2" or so, so it'll be pushing it. Pretty confident I can get good penetration and a decent enough weld. It's probably only 2" of weld when all is said and done, but it's a pretty important 2" and I only get one shot at it.

If possible preheat the shaft and gear just before welding. Not supper hot but just take the chill out of the metal. Tac it in place and peen the welds to reduce the cooling stress then back step the weld so you don't build to much heat in one spot. It will reduce the chance of it pulling out of alignment.

Have fun.

[danimal2]

Well..............looks like that was a bust. Wish I had seen the whole SOG thing before trying the JOG. Apparently some metal has found it's way into the oil pump. The welding/fitting of the SOG went off without a hitch and would've worked perfectly. I checked numerous (at least a dozen) times for metal bits in the crankcase from the old stripped out JOG before doing this deal. After I got it all done and the gear was welded on, I put on a new filter and filled the crankcase with oil. Fired it up and observed the no/low oil pressure light (it never came on) ran it on the side stand for couple minutes. Drained the oil, change the filter and filled with fresh oil. Fired it up and let it run for a bit and it sounded pretty good (still no light). I took it for a 5 mile ride around the neighborhood and all was well until mile 4 when it started making a mechanical clicking sound. You can't hear it at idle, but gets louder with rpm. I pulled it back into the garage and took it all apart again. I was looking for interference problems between the gears, gear face and clutch etc and everything looked great. Although not the prettiest, the weld was holding fine and there was no evidence of anything rubbing on anything else.

When I spun the oil pump gear I could hear grit and feel the notchiness as it turned. I still don't have a low/no oil pressure warning light, but I'm willing to bet it's operating in a diminished capacity and won't last long.

[mick56]

Not having much luck are you mate.I think what i would do,is fit a magnetic sump plug,then leave the bike running in the garage for a few hours.There is allways the chance that the bits will work thier way through the pump and get stuck on the magnet.Short of that its either an engine strip,or sell it for next to nothing.I wish you well with it anyway.

[danimal2]

Yeah bummer deal Mick. I knew going into this that it was a risk, but i didn't have a lot of options. There is a chance that it'll pass the grit (whatever it is), but pretty unlikely. I started looking at used bikes at the onset of all this. Also pricing used motors, but the pricing on motors is ridiculous. they want $1000 + for motors with 50,000 miles on them. Almost $2,000 for motors with half that mileage. I'll put it all back together again and keep the runs short and close to home. Don't have a lot of hope for it though. If I'da done this in the first place (SOG.vs JOG) it probably would've been fine.

[mick56]

I cant figure these drawings out,but maybe theres a way you can get a compessor air line onto one of the oil pipes,and try blasting it through while rotating the pump by hand.Drain the oil first
http://www.kawasakioriginalparts.com...-G2&country=GB

http://www.kawasakioriginalparts.com...-G2&country=GB