Scraping the floorboards, do you?

[scott2007nomad]

I too was dragging the boards when I first got my Nad in April.
Especially while riding two up.
I was used to a smaller bike with much more clearance.
Actually what was most scary to me was that the bracket to which the boards is attached was dragging.

I soon found that my rear air shock were empty.
After filling them with air, about 30psi, I no longer drag, but I've been riding more conservative also.

Scott

[phenrichs]

I used to scrape all the time on my Vmax. When I bought my Nomad this spring the tires werent the best so I haven't been too aggressive with it. Kind of babying it through the season. I can't wait till spring when I get the new rubber on it. Then I plan to scrape the boards. I kind of woner (question for cactusjack here) how far I can lean with the trailer before the hitch is over-extended.

[dogdoc]

Never have even though I have leaned it over quite a bit in many turns, not into buying new parts.

[dantama]

Wofman, we were thinking along the same lines. I folded a post it note into a 45 degree and tried to hold it parallel to the road, but the camera was a little off to the side, not right in front. I thought about going down to the garage and putting the bike leaned over on a 2x4 (all the way to the crash bars is too late for this conversation) and taking a picture straight on.

Here are some other pictures from another conversation.

This one shows how far the bike goes before the crash bars are holding up almost all the weight. That's too late out on the road.


These two show were the boards rub, and the little bit of hard part that has rubbed.





Rubbing the hard part is too much, levering the tire is not too far beyond that. I don't know how much of that hard part is when I was doing parking lot practice where I tried to go too tight and levered the tire off the ground. In parking lot practice I usually lever it off going left, that one is right, who knows?

But in tight turn contests, I've tried to match a bike that physically can turn tighter than a Nomad, and tried to the point where I lever the tire right off the ground and come to a halt. Perhaps I'll go do one and film it to get an idea of how much further levering is beyond scraping.

When you are riding, the difference is time and distance, figured in with leaning. Just laying your bike over in the garage is just leaning.

[goldstar225]

I've had my Nomad for a month now and have scraped twice. Both times with the wife on board in a tight 20-25 MPH curve. In both cases there was a "dip" in the middle of the curve and I felt the bike sag just before the boards touched down. I don't deliberately scrape the boards on the road, preferring to have that as my safety margin for the unexpected (such as tightening my line to avoid a car coming into my lane). I haven't done any serious parking lot practice yet, probably get to that this weekend.

[dantama]

Originally Posted by goldstar225

I've had my Nomad for a month now and have scraped twice. Both times with the wife on board in a tight 20-25 MPH curve. In both cases there was a "dip" in the middle of the curve and I felt the bike sag just before the boards touched down.

Very common way to have them scrape.

Originally Posted by goldstar225

I don't deliberately scrape the boards on the road, preferring to have that as my safety margin for the unexpected (such as tightening my line to avoid a car coming into my lane).

That is very wise. Exclamation point, exclamation point!

I always try to put disclaimers on my posts saying that what I do isn't wise, just that it can be done. For example, riding a bowl at a skate park isn't wise, but it certainly can be done.

As the thread gets longer, I'm afraid my first disclaimers get lost in the technical parts of the thread. But I couldn't agree more with you on the part about leaving some room to tighten up your line.

We all ride somewhere on a continuum of safe and wise riding. You can die no matter where you ride on the continuum, but your odds are certainly better further towards the safe end than the risk taker end.

Some people go for walks in the park, some people climb Everest. Some people ride a horse in an arena, some ride into primitive areas with mountain lions and no emergency services.

We all operate on a continuum, some can find plenty of enjoyment on the safer end, some need more stimulation and head towards the other end.

I don't advocate that people SHOULD ride on my end, I just try to say what can be done as far as mechanical limits.

Good reminder of what's wise Goldstar

[dhomoney]

I haven't yet on my Nad (had for 12 hours) but I have on my 900 Custom. That is when I knew I could really handle the bike.

[billmac]

[quote=Dan Lund]

Originally Posted by "billmac ":s1kdqdw1

(my)... experience and opinion, that motorcycles can lose traction when leaned too far.

I would certainly value your experience and opinion, and would love learn some parking lot practice with you.

Because I ride quite aggressively, and have never lost traction due to leaning, neither has anyone that I've ridden with and had a relationship with, I'm curious to know when it has happened to you.

This isn't a challenge to you, I'm open to new information and would like to know how it happened to you. What were you riding, what was the pavement like, what did you determine the loss of traction was due to?

I'm surmising that whatever time it happened to you, you had been leaned that far previously without incident.....what was different that time?


[/quote:s1kdqdw1]

Dan, I am not interested in challenging you either. Perhaps we are essentially saying the same thing, just presenting the opposite extremes of the position.

First I will admit that I am not a motorcycle court recognized expert or re-constructionist. I quickly concede that riding experience does not make someone an expert. Adding to experience, by riding a motorcycle above the posted speed limit, or riding aggressively still won’t add up to expert.

It is hard to make short concrete statements that don't have exceptions to the rule. I simply stated I believe it is possible to lean a motorcycle too far. At some point, the motorcycle will drag parts or loose tire traction, which could result in an unintended event. Not knowing the roadway surface condition, while pushing the limits of the turn radius at maximum corner speed, can be hazardous. Knowing the road surface condition exactly where the tire will roll before getting into the turn can be tricky. The faster the speed, the faster things develop, less time to react, and greater the consequences.

If my Nomad falls over on its side, I can say it leaned too far. Nearly all of my leaning too far past experience has been at slow speeds on parking lots where balance while leaning was the primary issue. Admittedly I have not personally witnessed exceeding maximum lean in a corner speed accidents. I have seen variations where the rider failed in the speed/lean angle, and made a bad decision resulting in high/low siding, straightening out roadway, or hitting a curb) Some people even claim they chose to lay it down or lean it over too far. I really don’t desire to get into that discussion either.

I am a different rider today and have retired from the rigors of working on a motorcycle. The Nomad is something my wife and I can enjoy using to tour the country side. I have retired my desire to drag parts in parking lots or speed through turns praying the radius and lean are correct and the roadway is clear and dry.

So I don't want to challenge you or anyone. I want to be KawaNow friendly and just be allowed an opinion from time to time. I am retired and these training discussions remind me too much of my pre-retirement days. Please let me say I'm happy and hope I have not done any damage.

[dantama]

Billmac, Bill?

Thank you for the clarification.

I totally agree with you that traction problems with the pavement that are out of the norm can exceed the tires ability to handle the g force loads from leaning. Dragging hard parts hard enough to raise the tire also can.

But leaned over on good pavement while dragging a floorboard, but not hard parts beyond the hinge part of the board, is extremely unlikely, and may not have ever happened with todays tires.

May reason for dispelling myths is because I think they are dangerous. People who think that if they "Lean too much" the tires will lose grip, are prime candidates for the most often seen reason for motorcycles to crash; running off the road in a turn. Classical "road turns, rider didn't make the turn".

I have heard tons of anecdotal stories of riders going into a turn too hot, afraid to lean enough to make the turn, and crashing. I was a few seconds behind one such crash last summer and posted pictures here of it. Some of that fear is built up upon stories of "you'll slide out if you lean too far".

Your knowledge is immense I'm sure, and will be appreciated here. I hope you post here often.

[goldstar225]

Good reminder of what's wise Goldstar

Dan, I'm certainly not wise, just doing what we all do, hopefully riding within my limits.

For the record I've seen the video of your low speed handling skills and can only hope to approach them. The same goes for Billmac. I've known some motor officers and my brother was one back in the 70's. The fact that Billmac survived so many years on the street speaks volumes.

Ride safe and ride well my Brothers.

[juan]

I guess i might have gone to the extreme with my Nomad cause I leaned too much on a county road and crashed . The Nad is pretty rugged since there was minimal damage to the bike. This happened at about 45 MPH. Maybe I should practice a little bit more.

[lonewolf]

hav probably dun more dragging of my floorboard since i went to the darkside . i probably wont continue to do so, but had to put myself at ease with this tire.

[dantama]

I tried to figure out the max lean of a Nomad. And this is the best I came up with.



I placed a block under the engine guard after the above picture was done to try to illustrate how much room there is before hard parts drag. Here's an inch and a half block and the hinge room in the floor boards isn't used yet.



Here's my hand trying to show how much hinge room is left.



Use up the hinge room and you'll start to take weight off the rear tire if you keep going.

In parking lot practice I can tell when I use up the hinge and start dragging hard parts. At that low of a speed, I can drag the hard parts a ways before trouble. Don't want to find out at high speeds how it does though.

As I go around a curve (not counting unexpected needs to tighten up a line, rock in the middle of the lane etc.) and the floor boards drag, I'm not worried at all. I can feel when the hinge gets used up, and I let it back up some.

So if you are going into a curve and you read it wrong and get a holy sh*t, I'm going too fast. Don't run out of your lane into the oncoming lane. Lean over more and start making noise, the bike can handle it.

Now give me kudos for lifting my bike up three times in a row :)

[dantama]

Just to clarify the above pictures. The middle one shows the floor board just starting to drag. The one below it shows how much further you can go once it starts to drag.

[Top Cat]

I am so glad I started this thread
Cindy and I went for a 250 mile ride today and I feel I have more confidence, not over confidence, in my ability to take curves since reading what you guys have to say. Special thanks to you Dan
Don't get me wrong. I havn't become a road racer by a long shot. By most standards I am still a conservative rider.
As alot of you know, I say it all the time, Cindy can leave me in the curves at will.
Well today she asked if I was cornering faster than usual because she wasn't running up on me in the curves.