ECU Flash from Ivan's Performance available

[gv550]

To those who have been Ivanized, how are you coping with the 2000 rpm cold idle? When I installed the ECU I was in Florida, and in 60-80F temps I found it manageable as the idle would soon drop to normal within 5 minutes of riding. I live in an RV resort and letting my bike warm up in the driveway at 2000 rpm would be very inconsiderate to my neighbors, so I always ride away immediately after starting the engine.
I'm now back in Ontario, and live in a townhouse with my neighbors even closer so I continue to ride away as soon as the engine starts. Yesterday it was below freezing and blowing snow but I went for a ride anyway, it took upwards of 15 minutes for the idle to settle down. While sitting at a red light the engine would be revving 2000, then down to 1200, then back to 2000 without me touching the hand grip. I was embarrassed, pedestrians I'm sure we're thinking 'why is this idiot revving the shit out of that bike' .
I find the high idle quite annoying, wish it could have been left at the stock 1250 setting. I have replaced my intake air temp sender and my coolant temp sensor so I don't think they are the cause, this started as soon as I installed the ECU. Anyone else have issues with this?

[Snake Ranch]

Originally Posted by gv550

To those who have been Ivanized, how are you coping with the 2000 rpm cold idle? When I installed the ECU I was in Florida, and in 60-80F temps I found it manageable as the idle would soon drop to normal within 5 minutes of riding. I live in an RV resort and letting my bike warm up in the driveway at 2000 rpm would be very inconsiderate to my neighbors, so I always ride away immediately after starting the engine.
I'm now back in Ontario, and live in a townhouse with my neighbors even closer so I continue to ride away as soon as the engine starts. Yesterday it was below freezing and blowing snow but I went for a ride anyway, it took upwards of 15 minutes for the idle to settle down. While sitting at a red light the engine would be revving 2000, then down to 1200, then back to 2000 without me touching the hand grip. I was embarrassed, pedestrians I'm sure we're thinking 'why is this idiot revving the shit out of that bike' .
I find the high idle quite annoying, wish it could have been left at the stock 1250 setting. I have replaced my intake air temp sender and my coolant temp sensor so I don't think they are the cause, this started as soon as I installed the ECU. Anyone else have issues with this?

Yes mine is doing the same thing. I was hoping it would settle down after the ECU adapted to the new flash. May have to call Ivan on this and ask what the logic is behind the surging RPM's.

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

Originally Posted by gv550

To those who have been Ivanized, how are you coping with the 2000 rpm cold idle? When I installed the ECU I was in Florida, and in 60-80F temps I found it manageable as the idle would soon drop to normal within 5 minutes of riding. I live in an RV resort and letting my bike warm up in the driveway at 2000 rpm would be very inconsiderate to my neighbors, so I always ride away immediately after starting the engine.
I'm now back in Ontario, and live in a townhouse with my neighbors even closer so I continue to ride away as soon as the engine starts. Yesterday it was below freezing and blowing snow but I went for a ride anyway, it took upwards of 15 minutes for the idle to settle down. While sitting at a red light the engine would be revving 2000, then down to 1200, then back to 2000 without me touching the hand grip. I was embarrassed, pedestrians I'm sure we're thinking 'why is this idiot revving the shit out of that bike' .
I find the high idle quite annoying, wish it could have been left at the stock 1250 setting. I have replaced my intake air temp sender and my coolant temp sensor so I don't think they are the cause, this started as soon as I installed the ECU. Anyone else have issues with this?

Here's my workaround... First, I have to say mine is NOT 2000 RPM, I'm about 1500 at the most when it kicks up. I'm also at 5000 feet elevation and can't start the bike without cracking the throttle because it's too rich at startup for 5000 ft. I came up with a workaround using my Power Commander V and it's Start Up Fuel function. If you enable it in the software settings and then tell it to reduce fuel by say -5 to -10% and see what you end up with. This is timed event so you can set it for 60 seconds or 120 seconds or whatever you want. You can fine tune the amount of fuel removed until it starts cold as it should have before.

What I think is going on is that Ivan had to add fuel at idle to get rid of the very aggressive engine braking as well as the decel popping and this has resulted in the high idle on startup. I had the same issue last year with I was trying to work around the same issues of the decel popping and aggressive engine braking when I added fuel too close to 0% throttle and low RPM using the PCV. I would assume this is something he might fix in an update later, unless there's no way to do it without sacrificing some other benefit.

If you don't have a PCV, then I don't think there's any work around for you.

[hayes]

Originally Posted by Fried Chicken Blowout

Here's my workaround... First, I have to say mine is NOT 2000 RPM, I'm about 1500 at the most when it kicks up. I'm also at 5000 feet elevation and can't start the bike without cracking the throttle because it's too rich at startup and at idle for 5000 ft. I came up with a workaround using my Power Commander V and it's Start UP Fuel function. If you can enable it in the software settings and then tell it to reduce fuel by say 5-10% and see what you end up with. This is timed event so you can set it for 60 seconds or 120 seconds or what ever you want. You can find tune the amount of fuel removed in till it starts cold as it should have before.

What I think is going on is that Ivan had to add fuel at idle to get rid of the very aggressive engine braking as well as the decel popping and this has resulted in the high idle on startup. I had the same issue last year with I was trying to work around the same issues of the decel popping and aggressive engine braking when I added fuel too close to 0% throttle and low RPM. I would assume this is something he might fix in an update later, unless there's no way to do it without sacrificing some other benefit.

If you don't have a PCV, then I don't think there's any work around for you.

Are you still using the PCV with Ivan's?

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

Originally Posted by hayes

Are you still using the PCV with Ivan's?

Yes, my setup pretty much requires it. I'm running Freedom Performance 2 into 1 for my exhaust and an Chuckster intake (soon to be replaced with the Roaring Toyz intake) so I'm too lean on top end with the ECU flash as the only adjustment. I'm running +9% fuel above 3500 RPM in throttle positions 60% and greater. Had it run on a dyno to confirm the A/F ratio and then called Ivan for directions. The bike is funny, it's exactly what Ivan said, if I add fuel below 3500, I loose torque so you have to run the bike pretty lean down low for max torque. His map was designed around a bike with slip-ons and an intake, so having open full exhaust changed things too much to not need a PCV or something similar.

Hey Brandon... Didn't see it was you till I looked back at your post after I replied. Let me know if you need any info about the flash. If you haven't already done it, it's pretty impressive and blows away anything I could do with the PCV alone.

[terryd]

Originally Posted by Fried Chicken Blowout

Here's my workaround... First, I have to say mine is NOT 2000 RPM, I'm about 1500 at the most when it kicks up. I'm also at 5000 feet elevation and can't start the bike without cracking the throttle because it's too rich at startup for 5000 ft. I came up with a workaround using my Power Commander V and it's Start Up Fuel function. If you enable it in the software settings and then tell it to reduce fuel by say -5 to -10% and see what you end up with. This is timed event so you can set it for 60 seconds or 120 seconds or whatever you want. You can fine tune the amount of fuel removed until it starts cold as it should have before.

What I think is going on is that Ivan had to add fuel at idle to get rid of the very aggressive engine braking as well as the decel popping and this has resulted in the high idle on startup. I had the same issue last year with I was trying to work around the same issues of the decel popping and aggressive engine braking when I added fuel too close to 0% throttle and low RPM using the PCV. I would assume this is something he might fix in an update later, unless there's no way to do it without sacrificing some other benefit.

If you don't have a PCV, then I don't think there's any work around for you.

Coming off a Ducati and a Zuzuki sport touring bike I don't really consider this bike to have excessive engine breaking. The engine breaking it does have causes me no problems and I've always used engine breaking in my riding style. If that's part of the reason for the high cold idle I'd rather have the "fix" removed before Ivan reflashes my ECU. I don't think it has anything to do with decel popping. Turning off the air injection should take care of that.

[JD Hog]

Hopefully we will hear from Ivan on this cold idle issue soon.

I have mine in the mail to him right now and would like it resolved before he re-flashes mine.

[Ivan_ipp]

There is no issue with the cold startup. ..it's different from stock. That's all.

If some of you want to send it back for an adjustment, I have no problem with that, but know that it won't run cooler anymore, and the better fuel mileage will be lost as well. Throttle response will also be degraded from how it is now as well.
You will have stock ignition timing at all the throttle settings that offer the improved mileage.

There is less throttle plate opening during cold start due to more advanced timing at small throttle openings... with stock throttle openings during cold start, the idle will go 3000 rpm or so. All the cold start processes had to be redone. All 3 testbikes never varied more than 50 rpm during warmup. This was tested in 15 degree temps as well as 70 degree temps.

A 14 Vac, A 15 Vac, and a 13 Classic

I would think that one of the TPS's may have a different setting than the testbikes that I had in my shop if the idle is hunting.




Ivan

[Ivan_ipp]

Originally Posted by Fried Chicken Blowout

Yes, my setup pretty much requires it. I'm running Freedom Performance 2 into 1 for my exhaust and an Chuckster intake (soon to be replaced with the Roaring Toyz intake) so I'm too lean on top end with the ECU flash as the only adjustment. I'm running +9% fuel above 3500 RPM in throttle positions 60% and greater. Had it run on a dyno to confirm the A/F ratio and then called Ivan for directions. The bike is funny, it's exactly what Ivan said, if I add fuel below 3500, I loose torque so you have to run the bike pretty lean down low for max torque. His map was designed around a bike with slip-ons and an intake, so having open full exhaust changed things too much to not need a PCV or something similar.

Hey Brandon... Didn't see it was you till I looked back at your post after I replied. Let me know if you need any info about the flash. If you haven't already done it, it's pretty impressive and blows away anything I could do with the PCV alone.

I sincerely doubt it's as lean as your readout says... We already discussed this.... and now I feel like I am compelled to post this:

Big twins make very strong pulses at lower rpms and have what is known as "dilution".... Dilution will happen all the way up the rpm scale on a big twin.... decreasing it's effect as the rpms climb, but still happening all the time.

Dilution is when outside air gets drawn into the exhaust and contaminates the sample being taken.

If the wideband isn't 8-10 inches out of the head, then all readings taken are 100% meaningless. ... let alone in a box on the wall like most tuning shops do.
Again, 100% meaningless test when samples are gotten this way.

Look where H/D locates their O2 sensors.....
(appx. 10 inches out of the head on both cylinders)

This is less important for them to meet emissions, but it's important for tuning afterwards.

Kaw's O2 is located near the collector... upstream from the catalyst, it's useful for the ECU to meet emissions this way, but pretty much useless after you lose the catalyst... Kaw doesn't care how it's tuned afterwards, they only care about what it needs to be sold here.

If you want to find out if it really needs the 9% extra fuel, do some pulls on the dyno and confirm that adding .9 afr more fuel increases the power.... .9 afr is a fair amount of extra fuel (not saying that it doesn't need it, but HP readings will prove it) You need to change the settings (back and forth) in the same dyno session.

Comparing runs from a different day are also meaningless when looking for small changes.


Ivan

[Lumberjack]

Thanks Ivan for responding to some of the comments.

[gv550]

Originally Posted by Ivan_ipp

There is no issue with the cold startup. ..it's different from stock. That's all.

If some of you want to send it back for an adjustment, I have no problem with that, but know that it won't run cooler anymore, and the better fuel mileage will be lost as well. Throttle response will also be degraded from how it is now as well.
You will have stock ignition timing at all the throttle settings that offer the improved mileage.

There is less throttle plate opening during cold start due to more advanced timing at small throttle openings... with stock throttle openings during cold start, the idle will go 3000 rpm or so. All the cold start processes had to be redone. All 3 testbikes never varied more than 50 rpm during warmup. This was tested in 15 degree temps as well as 70 degree temps.

A 14 Vac, A 15 Vac, and a 13 Classic

I would think that one of the TPS's may have a different setting than the testbikes that I had in my shop if the idle is hunting.




Ivan

Thanks for the feedback, Ivan.
Please don't take my comments as criticism, I was only asking how others are coping with the new cold idle characteristics. Since I appear to be the only one with 2000 rpm idle maybe I have another problem such as intake air leak, which these bikes are known to have. This week I plan to remove my TB and intake manifold and reseal them. I also have another TB assembly complete with TPS so I may try that too.

[Ken Vega]

My idle only wanders for maye 45 seconds then settles down to a purr. This same thing happened the first ti e I loaded David Sheeks map into my PCV.

[MET-RICK]

Originally Posted by gv550

To those who have been Ivanized, how are you coping with the 2000 rpm cold idle? When I installed the ECU I was in Florida, and in 60-80F temps I found it manageable as the idle would soon drop to normal within 5 minutes of riding. I live in an RV resort and letting my bike warm up in the driveway at 2000 rpm would be very inconsiderate to my neighbors, so I always ride away immediately after starting the engine.
I'm now back in Ontario, and live in a townhouse with my neighbors even closer so I continue to ride away as soon as the engine starts. Yesterday it was below freezing and blowing snow but I went for a ride anyway, it took upwards of 15 minutes for the idle to settle down. While sitting at a red light the engine would be revving 2000, then down to 1200, then back to 2000 without me touching the hand grip. I was embarrassed, pedestrians I'm sure we're thinking 'why is this idiot revving the shit out of that bike' .
I find the high idle quite annoying, wish it could have been left at the stock 1250 setting. I have replaced my intake air temp sender and my coolant temp sensor so I don't think they are the cause, this started as soon as I installed the ECU. Anyone else have issues with this?

*** Hey Gary with the weather and temp.s we've been having I have only got out a few times since my flash, right now we're getting snow and freezing rain , but... so far when starting up cold, my Vaq. idles up around 1500 ~ 1700 for just about 2 ~ 3 min. maybe, then gradually 3 ~ 4 more min. settles around 800. Unless it's just my imagination, I think it wasn't quite as high or for quite as long during each consecutive cold start up...I was thinking that it maybe some what of an adjustment phase/period. If the weather forecast holds, we'll have better an more consistent weather and a chance to let it all play out later this week. I'm thinking that going into the bikes optional idle settings to reduce the idle from there might be of some value . Cheers

[Ivan_ipp]

Warm up time is dependent on coolant temperature. ...there isn't a timer.

Warm up time takes longer due to the engine producing less heat.

Surging more than 50 -100 rpm may very well be a vacuum leak. Easily tested by spraying some carb cleaner around the areas where these known to leak while the engine is running.

Again, it's possible that one or both of the TPS sensors may be slightly outside of spec or near one end of the spec.

If there is an adjustment that the rider has, then this could be s screwing with the targets that are set..... Anything that would cause the throttle to open more than the targets (or vacuum leak ) will cause it to surge.

Ivan

[Peg]

Originally Posted by gv550

Thanks for the feedback, Ivan.
Please don't take my comments as criticism, I was only asking how others are coping with the new cold idle characteristics. Since I appear to be the only one with 2000 rpm idle maybe I have another problem such as intake air leak, which these bikes are known to have. This week I plan to remove my TB and intake manifold and reseal them. I also have another TB assembly complete with TPS so I may try that too.

After your experience Garry I was expecting the same high idle with mine, since they're similar generation bikes. But the first time I fired it up it went only briefly to about 1700rpm, and settled quickly back to 1000 within about 30 seconds. I've now dropped my idle speed by 50 to the "0" setting (I remember previously raising it that amount to help get rid of some decel pop), and it seems to settle now even faster, down to 950. The high-idle only gets up to around 1500rpm now before it slows, and I'd think that if you'd never spoken of a fast-idle, I might never have noticed it enough to even mention it, myself.

I'm assuming it was the ECU from your Voyager that was flashed... So perhaps trying the TB left over from that bike might make a difference? I'm wondering whether your experience has something to do with the change of motor.