WARNING: This may offend (vent)

[formikec]

Not to change the subject, but Misunderstood, is that Bald River Falls in your pic? Just curious, haven't been there since High School.

[misunderstood]

Originally Posted by formikec

Not to change the subject, but Misunderstood, is that Bald River Falls in your pic? Just curious, haven't been there since High School.

I think that's what it's called. It's a little road off the Cherohalla Skyway.

[cactusjack]

I'll tell you who I won't be voting for. Any candidate labeled "incumbent". As far as I'm concerned none of them deserve to keep their job.

[rickyboy]

Politics has always been frustrating to me. Nothing but candidates making promises to get your vote, then when they get in office,.......

But.....that's America.....and I wouldn't live anywhere else.......OK, so maybe I might live in Canada or Australia to see what it's like...LOL.

Trip,...
and anyone else that cares to listen to a Canadians point of view. I was pretty shocked when Bush made it in for a second term, and was of the semi popular opinion up here, that the election "had to be fixed."
But as far as living here in Canada Trip, you're welcome to give it a try, but be aware that we are just as ......"screwed up" politically as the next guy. Do I think some things are better here in Canada? Yes I do. I mean we have 4 main parties to choose from. None of which offer us much more than the others. All I know for sure is that I enjoy living primarily in Canada and spending most weekends in northern Washington at my "cabin". I am fortunate to be "living" in two great countries.
I hope that wasn't offensive ;)

[basco]

I am with you Wolfman
Trip you don't want to move to Canada up there you have to put your bike away for winter :'(

I don't care how any of you vote. I also don't care whether you like the way I vote or not,it's really no one's business except mine. Whoever is elected, whatever party is in power, I'll get by within the system.
As far as anyone telling me I don't have balls because I don't see it their way, screw them.Same for telling me that if I voted for Bush a second time I should not be allowed to vote, I say screw you too.
Now, to be politically correct here, that of course is just rhetorical, not meant to offend anyone or point fingers at anyone in particular.On the other hand, if the shoe fits...............

[ponch]

At different times in history, we have had more than two parties to chose from and people did. When lincoln ran the first time, there were 4 parties and he got less than 40% of the vote and won. In 1912, Theodore Roosevelt got 27% of the vote with the Bull Moose or Progressive Party. Taft got 23%, Wilson 42%. So there is some truth to third parties pushing the election to one of the majority parties, but I do agree, if people would get out of the white hat/black hat mentality, we would have real change. My best advice is that of Samuel Adams:

"Let each citizen remember at the moment he is offering his vote that he is not making a present or a compliment to please an individual -- or at least that he ought not so to do; but that he is executing one of the most solemn trusts in human society for which he is accountable to God and his country." --Samuel Adams

[ponch]

Canada and Australia are pretty much socialist countries. Try it if you like, and after this election, there may be no difference. On the tax issue, there are countries that have lower tax rates. Don't laugh. Andorra has no tax and Estonia has lower taxes than we do. I've ben giving this a lot of thought and if we go in the direction of socialism, once the kids are out and retirement looms, I can see myself getting the hell out of here.

Originally Posted by Trip

I've never voted straight party lines. I don't really consider myself a Democrat or Republican. I've historically voted for who I thought was the best candidate in my opinion.

In my lifetime, I've only voted one time out of mainstream party's and that was for Ross Perot. Laugh if you will, but I felt he might do some good if elected.

And Dan.....I wasn't trying to give you a hard time about your stay at home statement. I understand how you feel. It can get frustrating at times. Just keep on telling it like you see it.

Politics has always been frustrating to me. Nothing but candidates making promises to get your vote, then when they get in office, it's business as "pork barrel" usual. It's hard for one man to take on Congress. Even if he may be right.

But.....that's America.....and I wouldn't live anywhere else.......OK, so maybe I might live in Canada or Australia to see what it's like...LOL.

[Cajunrider]

I will vote for who I feel will protect the U.S. and it's citizens from another 9/11. Of the two major parties there is only one clear choice. I spent two long weeks at the Trade Center site shortly after September 11th and will never forget the sick smell and destruction. Having to clean cremated remains off of your shoes daily when leaving Ground Zero tells it all. Sorry if I offended anyone who lost a friend or loved one at either of the three murder scenes. It was not my intention, believe me. Oh, I'm not ashamed to say I voted Bush both times.

[rksaw]

Voting is a privilege, and we need to understand just how lucky we are to have the ability to do so. I wish that we had more choices and have sometimes thought of the advantages and disadvantages of a multi-party system. But in the mean time, I will be grateful for the freedoms and liberties that I have.

I am also grateful for the opportunity to have a good argument/debate about political issues. Wolf, thanks for bringing up this topic.
Rich

[ponch]

I am a New Yorker (but I live in Iowa now) and I agree with what you say, except I would add that I would not vote for Bush again if he could have run again. The difference between myself and almost 50% of my fellow Americans is that I will not cut off my nose to spite my face.

Originally Posted by Cajunrider

I will vote for who I feel will protect the U.S. and it's citizens from another 9/11. Of the two major parties there is only one clear choice. I spent two long weeks at the Trade Center site shortly after September 11th and will never forget the sick smell and destruction. Having to clean cremated remains off of your shoes daily when leaving Ground Zero tells it all. Sorry if I offended anyone who lost a friend or loved one at either of the three murder scenes. It was not my intention, believe me. Oh, I'm not ashamed to say I voted Bush both times.

[dantama]

Originally Posted by meanstreak031

I don't care how any of you vote. I also don't care whether you like the way I vote or not,it's really no one's business except mine. Whoever is elected, whatever party is in power, I'll get by within the system.
As far as anyone telling me I don't have balls because I don't see it their way, screw them.Same for telling me that if I voted for Bush a second time I should not be allowed to vote, I say screw you too.
Now, to be politically correct here, that of course is just rhetorical, not meant to offend anyone or point fingers at anyone in particular.On the other hand, if the shoe fits...............

I'm thinking that you are more comfortable with contradiction than you are with different points of view

[watchman]

I am just totally so sick of canidates lying, side stepping issues and feeding us a bunch of BS. They call it the popular vote and that is what it is. Just make yourself more popular than the other canidate and you will win. Just tell the people what they want to here, how bad the other canidate and other party is. Never once have you heard a canidate say I am sorry I voted for a bad bill. They try to keep there voting record secret and there attendence record even more secret. They out right lie or state that they where misinformed. I believe that all politicians are liers and crooks or they would not be in policits to start with. They are all running for one reason to make themselves richer than they already are. Our job is to vote for the one that lies the least and is trying to steal/make the least amount of money for themselves or there buddies. I too will most likey be voting for a 3rd party. As far as state elections go I try ot vote for the least of the 2 evils as most of the time there is not 3rd party to vote for.

I'm thinking that you are more comfortable with contradiction than you are with different points of view

There you go thinking again. You could not be more wrong though.

[dantama]

Originally Posted by watchman

I am just totally so sick of canidates lying, side stepping issues and feeding us a bunch of BS. They call it the popular vote and that is what it is. Just make yourself more popular than the other canidate and you will win. Just tell the people what they want to here, how bad the other canidate and other party is. Never once have you heard a canidate say I am sorry I voted for a bad bill. They try to keep there voting record secret and there attendence record even more secret. They out right lie or state that they where misinformed. I believe that all politicians are liers and crooks or they would not be in policits to start with. They are all running for one reason to make themselves richer than they already are. Our job is to vote for the one that lies the least and is trying to steal/make the least amount of money for themselves or there buddies. I too will most likey be voting for a 3rd party. As far as state elections go I try ot vote for the least of the 2 evils as most of the time there is not 3rd party to vote for.

I agree about your popularity contest thoughts. From what I've studied in prior sociology classes, it started to really matter in the election between Nixon and Kennedy. It was the first televised debate, and Nixon looked disheveled and rubbing sweat off his face a lot, Kennedy looked cool and confident. Some say that is what lost the election for Nixon.

Ever since then, manipulating public perception took on a larger role. In my adult lifetime, sound bites became big, and focus groups. Public polling has become so sophisticated that candidates know exactly what people want to hear, and then they say it.

A better way would be for all candidates to be honest and tell us what they really think, but we will continue to hear what their expert handlers say they should be saying.

I noticed watching the debates on CNN (where they show the graph at the bottom showing what some undecideds are thinking in real time) When Palin and McCain would say "maverick" the graph would imideatly dip. Last night he didn't keep throwing maverick in.

There has always been manipulation of public perception since the beginnings of societies, but it has become so sophisticated that we only see that now. Every now and then, some truth leaks out, but most of what we see is a scrip of what they are told will work.