Indian Lives Again

[rp]

Originally Posted by ponch

I think Harley's have really nice paint and chrome, but the Indian is even better. Is it worth what they want? No and obviously not considering no one is buying them. I suppose Victory wants to add some cred/lineage to their stable. An Indian would not be a metric cruiser as the Victory is considered. It's too bad as the Victory is a well made motorcycle. We'll have to see what the future holds. With boomers going away and the younger crowd coming up, I have to wonder will they buy into HD? Making Dark bikes ain't it, at least I don't think so for the crown raised on Ninjas and GSXRs.

>>An Indian would not be a metric cruiser as the Victory is <<

Why is Victory considered a metric?

BTW: I'd like to see Can-Am build a two-wheeler.

RP

[ponch]

Originally Posted by rp

>>An Indian would not be a metric cruiser as the Victory is <<

Why is Victory considered a metric?

BTW: I'd like to see Can-Am build a two-wheeler.

RP

I've heard some HD guys call it that. It's basically a modern Vtwin. It's not so much my judgement, but I probably wouldn't buy either.

[glwilson]

Ponch,

I found thid information interesting – if not surprising – at least to me. I thought HD was “dying on the vine” with younger people in the U.S. but some statistics seems to provide a different story.

R.L. Polk provided the information by monitoring registrations of all motorcycles sold in the U.S.

Here is some of the information in brief:

HD sells more motorcycles to people under the age of 35 in the U.S. than any other company. Beginning in 2008 through 2009 HD became the top-selling brand in sales of new on-road motorcycles to young adults aged 18-34 (the “Y” generation). (2010 numbers are not available yet.) These sales include all displacement motorcycles, not just “heavyweight” bikes.

When measuring bikes over 650cc’s HD has been the top-selling motorcycle brand of all brands for a much longer period (I didn’t see the time-period for this statement; but am sure it was there somewhere. I thought Honda had them beat overall.)

The percentage of the age-group between ages 18-34 riding motorcycles has been rising. HD is selling more motorcycles to this age group (as a percentage) than they did to the “Baby-boomers” when they were of this age. By total sales, HD is more popular with this age group than it was for the Baby-boomers “back-then”.

Beyond new-bikes being purchased -- when monitoring sales of used bikes; from 2006-2009; 200,000 HD bikes were purchased by this age-group – the largest of any brand, and the trend is increasing.

The next highest brand considered by this group appeals to only 15% of them – which suggests a commitment to the HD brand that is stronger than in previous generations. (They didn’t mention the “other” brand by name.)

Just thought we would try to keep the facts straight, and dispel some misconceptions. Overall, with these statistics, it is, in fact, other brands of bikes that are struggling to stay in business. ;)

[ponch]

Originally Posted by glwilson

Ponch,

I found thid information interesting – if not surprising – at least to me. I thought HD was “dying on the vine” with younger people in the U.S. but some statistics seems to provide a different story.

R.L. Polk provided the information by monitoring registrations of all motorcycles sold in the U.S.

Here is some of the information in brief:

HD sells more motorcycles to people under the age of 35 in the U.S. than any other company. Beginning in 2008 through 2009 HD became the top-selling brand in sales of new on-road motorcycles to young adults aged 18-34 (the “Y” generation). (2010 numbers are not available yet.) These sales include all displacement motorcycles, not just “heavyweight” bikes.

When measuring bikes over 650cc’s HD has been the top-selling motorcycle brand of all brands for a much longer period (I didn’t see the time-period for this statement; but am sure it was there somewhere. I thought Honda had them beat overall.)

The percentage of the age-group between ages 18-34 riding motorcycles has been rising. HD is selling more motorcycles to this age group (as a percentage) than they did to the “Baby-boomers” when they were of this age. By total sales, HD is more popular with this age group than it was for the Baby-boomers “back-then”.

Beyond new-bikes being purchased -- when monitoring sales of used bikes; from 2006-2009; 200,000 HD bikes were purchased by this age-group – the largest of any brand, and the trend is increasing.

The next highest brand considered by this group appeals to only 15% of them – which suggests a commitment to the HD brand that is stronger than in previous generations. (They didn’t mention the “other” brand by name.)

Just thought we would try to keep the facts straight, and dispel some misconceptions. Overall, with these statistics, it is, in fact, other brands of bikes that are struggling to stay in business. ;)

If that is true, good for them. I wonder what influence it will have on changes in design over the next 5-10years?

[glwilson]

I would certainly think it would allow HD to begin to veer away from the traditional designs somewhat.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by glwilson

I would certainly think it would allow HD to begin to veer away from the traditional designs somewhat.

I have a friend that has owned HDs forever and he thinks if they go to water cooling it will be the end of them. I can't see how they cannot go in that direction with tightening emission standards. Even BMW is going to water cooling on their boxer engines.

[rp]

Originally Posted by glwilson

I would certainly think it would allow HD to begin to veer away from the traditional designs somewhat.

Actually, it is that traditional design that has helped them sell.

RP

[ponch]

Originally Posted by rp

Actually, it is that traditional design that has helped them sell.

RP

Only to the people that buy them.

[rp]

Originally Posted by glwilson

Ponch,

I found thid information interesting – if not surprising – at least to me. I thought HD was “dying on the vine” with younger people in the U.S. but some statistics seems to provide a different story.

R.L. Polk provided the information by monitoring registrations of all motorcycles sold in the U.S.

Here is some of the information in brief:

HD sells more motorcycles to people under the age of 35 in the U.S. than any other company. Beginning in 2008 through 2009 HD became the top-selling brand in sales of new on-road motorcycles to young adults aged 18-34 (the “Y” generation). (2010 numbers are not available yet.) These sales include all displacement motorcycles, not just “heavyweight” bikes.

When measuring bikes over 650cc’s HD has been the top-selling motorcycle brand of all brands for a much longer period (I didn’t see the time-period for this statement; but am sure it was there somewhere. I thought Honda had them beat overall.)

The percentage of the age-group between ages 18-34 riding motorcycles has been rising. HD is selling more motorcycles to this age group (as a percentage) than they did to the “Baby-boomers” when they were of this age. By total sales, HD is more popular with this age group than it was for the Baby-boomers “back-then”.

Beyond new-bikes being purchased -- when monitoring sales of used bikes; from 2006-2009; 200,000 HD bikes were purchased by this age-group – the largest of any brand, and the trend is increasing.

The next highest brand considered by this group appeals to only 15% of them – which suggests a commitment to the HD brand that is stronger than in previous generations. (They didn’t mention the “other” brand by name.)

Just thought we would try to keep the facts straight, and dispel some misconceptions. Overall, with these statistics, it is, in fact, other brands of bikes that are struggling to stay in business. ;)

Afew reasons, {IMO} [one] they have improved the product quite a bit.

[two] "back then" US boomers had only the AMF Harleys available,& they were junk.

[three] the metrics were new too us,& a huge change in design. My Dad & ...myself to a lesser degree, never thought there would be a liquid cooled motorcycle.

and don't forget, part of the resurgence of HD was due to the Gov imposed tariffs placed on the Japanese imports,..that raised their prices quite a bit. Making them less of a bargain when compared to HD.

RP

[ponch]

You are talking about nearly 30 years ago. Things change. We have more choices now than we did then. I don't think HD is going out of business by a long shot, but I do think they will have challenges as stricter EPA rules take effect. I also think Millennials will have different tastes. I am pretty sure we'll see these changes when Willie G gets to spend more time with his family.

[ringadingh]

I wonder why Polaris is moving the plant, the one in Kings Mountain NC is a brand new plant. We won't be all that far from it when were at the rally.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by Ringadingh

I wonder why Polaris is moving the plant, the one in Kings Mountain NC is a brand new plant. We won't be all that far from it when were at the rally.

It was in the Des Moines Register today. Spirit Lake

[glwilson]

Originally Posted by ponch

If that is true, good for them. I wonder what influence it will have on changes in design over the next 5-10years?

It's true. It is an official RL Polk report. In fact, some analysts have quoted portions of the report when speaking of HD's future.

Regarding changes to HD's... there are beginning to be signs of that happening currently. They intentionally increased their line-up to include a number of bikes likely have appeal to some of the younger riders.

I would guess eventually they will begin adding features to their bikes that will be more advanced as they move along to the point where most the "old" customers are out of the picture as far as being their dominant buyer in the U.S.

Their market focus now, however, continues to be overseas where the sales are growing annually at a fairly rapid-rate. It will someday dwarf the sales records made in the U.S. which will continue to keep HD on the map for a long time.

I have to hand it to their CEO... he inherited a mess and has begun to pull it out of the ditch for them.

Ponch may be right about Willie G though. He is known for dragging his feet on too many advancements; at least those that would be seen when looking at the bike. That is why the V-Rod's radiator had to be hidden as much as possible. Willie G didn't want a radiator on a Harley.

Willie G has done a lot for HD; but you begin to wonder if after a while he hasn't helped to bog them down some too.

[ringadingh]

Since reading that Indian only built about 700 bikes a year, that works out to about 4 a day on average. Im guessing it wasn't a large plant overall. I guess consolidating the production in one location makes sense.