I am desperate for some help-clutch issues? - Page 2

dchap29 · 07-28-2013, 09:32 PM

It's the Mobil one oil you need to get that stuff out of your bike i had the same issue about a year ago i have replaced the same washers you damaged and put in the mean streak spring but that Mobil Oil has something in it that dont jive with the clutches

Killie · 07-28-2013, 10:32 PM

Maybe the Mobile 1 is such a slick lubricant, it lubes the clutches so well that they slip?? Especially when it warms up and gets a little thinner??

id-man · 07-28-2013, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dchap29

It's the Mobil one oil you need to get that stuff out of your bike ~ has something in it that dont jive with the clutches

Say WHAT? Never heard that before.

gillisfire · 07-28-2013, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dchap29

It's the Mobil one oil you need to get that stuff out of your bike i had the same issue about a year ago i have replaced the same washers you damaged and put in the mean streak spring but that Mobil Oil has something in it that dont jive with the clutches

You know I did think about the Mobile 1 being part of my problem. Thinking back on it, most my problems started when I started useing it on my Nomad. I have used it for years in my 900 and found it to be awesome. But I bought my 900 new and the Nomad used. The previous owner used nonsynthetic oil. And after installing the synthetic, I have noticed some changes in the way my Nomad acted. Of course I thought I was imagening things but maybe I wasn't. I think when the new spring comes in I will be changeing out the oil to non synthetic. Now don't laugh but all I have used is moble 1. I won't ask here about oil, I can research the site to figure out what I will use. But maybe the synthetic oil does play into the clutch issue.

Peg · 07-29-2013, 12:28 AM

Woo-Hoo an oil thread!

Seeing as how you hi-jacked it yourself though, I'll join in.

I'm very happy with my Mobil 1 syn oil myself... but I'm using the 10W 40, 4T motorcycle oil which I'm absolutely sure has no friction modifiers in it that might interfere with the clutch. It's hard to keep up with where they're using modifiers these days though - so I'd be very cautious about straying too far away from what others have recommended.

Changing a Nomad from mineral to synthetic oil later in life can cause it to leak a little. It's suggested the seals can swell or alter their characteristics somehow with the change. My '02 certainly did - I've experienced and then repaired the usual cam plug seepage, after changing to synthetic.

But I'm not aware of any other issues that can arise from using synthetic, and I still think the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

cactusjack · 07-29-2013, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dchap29

It's the Mobil one oil you need to get that stuff out of your bike i had the same issue about a year ago i have replaced the same washers you damaged and put in the mean streak spring but that Mobil Oil has something in it that dont jive with the clutches

If it's Mobil 1 v-twin oil, it's fine. if it's something else, then it could be an issue. Just saying Mobil 1 oil is bad is ridiculous.

VulcanE · 07-29-2013, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dchap29

It's the Mobil one oil you need to get that stuff out of your bike i had the same issue about a year ago i have replaced the same washers you damaged and put in the mean streak spring but that Mobil Oil has something in it that dont jive with the clutches

I've only used two different oils in my bike since it was new('05 with just over 60,000 miles). Mobil 1 4T (which is 10w40), and Amsoil in both 20w50 & 10w40. Although I can tell a difference between the 10w40 and the 20w50 (I like the 10w40 much better), I can tell no difference between the Amsoil and the Mobil 1 10w40 oils.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peg

Changing a Nomad from mineral to synthetic oil later in life can cause it to leak a little. It's suggested the seals can swell or alter their characteristics somehow with the change.

the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

Not just Nomads, but any vehicle. The reason an older engine develops leaks when switching from dino to synthetic, is because the synthetic cleans the inside of the engine so well. If the seal or plug has a little sludge build-up on it, the sludge will also act as a seal. as time goes on the seal underneath the sludge deteriorates, and the sludge is now the sealing material. You switch to synthetic, and it cleans the sludge off the seal, now you will have leaking seals, and the only way to fix it is to replace the seals.
I do fully agree.............." the benefits outweigh the disadvantages".

gillisfire · 07-29-2013, 08:10 AM

I use the Mobile 1vtwin 20/50. I am just throwing it out there that maybe it was part of the problem. Like I said, I use it in my 900 custom I bought new in 2009 and love it in that bike. I am just trying to figure out what is going on wi th my Nomad. I was only looseing my clutch when my bike would get hot. So I was thinking the oil would thin to much at higher temps. I don't know. I am putting options out there and getting opinions. Not trying to start a dreaded oil argument, the clutch problem is what we need to stay on topic about.

Jllm02199 · 07-29-2013, 08:41 AM

Good advise Yellow Jacket. I've been there and done that.
Those washers can drop down real easy. I put grease on mind to hold them.

Good job gillisfire.

gillisfire · 08-01-2013, 08:54 PM

Well just giving an update. I received the new spring and got everything put back together. I cranked her up and went for a short test ride and she was shifting great. I got back home and shut her down, waited a few minutes, started her, AND THEN.... as before, after my bike heats up I loose power.

I start my bike up, shift into 1st, roll the throttle and only the engine revs. If I put the kick stand down and let off the clutch my bike will die, so it knows it is in first gear. But when the bike is off and in 1st gear I can push it when it should be locked in gear. I am at a lose here. Does this sound like a clutch issue?

I did bleed the clutch fluid again. I got one of the bleeder kits from Harbor Frieght. The fluid flows but does have some bubbles in it. So I don't know if I have a line leek or the bleeder creates the bubbles while pulling the fluid threw the lines. I looked at my clutch line but didn't see any bad spots and I don't see any signs of fluid leek.

I just can not figure out why it only acts this way when every thing gets hot. So I am open to any ideas. i am so tired of driving my truck to work every day with this great riding weather we are having.

Jllm02199 · 08-01-2013, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gillisfire

Well just giving an update. I received the new spring and got everything put back together. I cranked her up and went for a short test ride and she was shifting great. I got back home and shut her down, waited a few minutes, started her, AND THEN.... as before, after my bike heats up I loose power.

I start my bike up, shift into 1st, roll the throttle and only the engine revs. If I put the kick stand down and let off the clutch my bike will die, so it knows it is in first gear. But when the bike is off and in 1st gear I can push it when it should be locked in gear. I am at a lose here. Does this sound like a clutch issue?

I did bleed the clutch fluid again. I got one of the bleeder kits from Harbor Frieght. The fluid flows but does have some bubbles in it. So I don't know if I have a line leek or the bleeder creates the bubbles while pulling the fluid threw the lines. I looked at my clutch line but didn't see any bad spots and I don't see any signs of fluid leek.

I just can not figure out why it only acts this way when every thing gets hot. So I am open to any ideas. i am so tired of driving my truck to work every day with this great riding weather we are having.

It still sounds like the clutch is acting like the disks are to thin.
Something is either in wrong or you left out a disk.
The outer disk Fits in a different grove. Did you have the disks out.

Jeffsmountainauto · 08-01-2013, 09:07 PM

Sorry to hear of the trouble you are having. I can tell you one thing. If the clutch is not engaging it is not because of air in the line. That would cause it to not disengage. Does the clutch lever "feel" normal when it acts up? All i can think of is that, through heat expansion, something is binding when the engine is hot.

Jllm02199 · 08-01-2013, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dchap29

It's the Mobil one oil you need to get that stuff out of your bike i had the same issue about a year ago i have replaced the same washers you damaged and put in the mean streak spring but that Mobil Oil has something in it that dont jive with the clutches

It's all I've ever used. Gray cap 10w 40.

gillisfire · 08-01-2013, 10:42 PM

The history on this problem is, for a couple months my clutch lever would be soft when first starting the bike. As it would heat up the clutch lever would stiffen up. It finally got to the point to were the clutch lever pulled all the way in, the bike would still pull forward, so it was like the clutch wouldn't engage

I picked up a bleeder kit and changed my clutch fluid, brake fluid, changed the back tire and changed the final drive gear oil. After doing all this, I went for a test ride and found as the bike warmed up that I was shifting up in gears but loosing speed with the engine reving up. I figured with the clean fluid and better clutch lever action that I lost the clutch spring. So that's why I started this thread. After the first time installing the clutch spring, the bike would not move in first gear again so I pulled the spring again to see if I did something wrong.That's when I saw I bent a tensioner spring. Ordered a new one and made sure I got every thing this time installed correctly.

I never removed any of the plates and made sure to torque everything to spec. The issue only happens when the bike gets hot, after it cools off for about 30 minutes, it will work again until it gets hot. It acts like it is in gear but does not move. The clutch lever is still stiff when the issue arises and putting the kickstand down while in gear the bike will die when letting off the clutch.

hahawil · 08-01-2013, 11:19 PM

hello

I had this exact problem right after I bought my bike. I could ride it for 20 or so minutes and then I could power right thru the clutch. I flushed and changed the fluid as you did--no help. I ordered a Judge washer and installed it-- no help. After each attempt it would appear that I had it fixxed until things got good and warm. Sounding familiar, with some assistance from another Vulcan site I was told there is a second hole in the bottom of the clutch master cylinder, it bleeds the clutch fluid out of the line after the clutch lever is released. I could ride my bike until it started slipping, and then crack the banjo fitting on the master cylinder to bleed a little fluid and she would go for another 20 minutes. I found out it is not the heat that is causing the issue. It is the repeated pulling and releasing the clutch lever building up the fluid in the line and not fulling releasing the slave cylinder. If I cracked the banjo fitting on the highway and shifted up to fifth gear and cruised there, I could run out a tank of gas, only pulling the clutch lever 4 or 5 times.
The master cylinder volume is slightly larger than the slave cylinder to make sure the clutch is fully released with each pull. The small hole in the front of the master cylinder releases that extra fluid and fully engages the clutch.

In the bottom of the master cylinder is a larger hole that replenishes the fluid when the lever is released making sure you get a full charge with the next pull. There is a smaller hole (closer to the banjo fitting) that releases the fluid in the line when the clutch lever is released, allowing the slave cylinder to fully engage the clutch. My small hole was so plugged that it was not visible, it appeared to me that is was a small dimple from the machining process of the master cylinder. I was told that a pipe cleaner would more than likely clean the hole, but a very small drill bit was needed. I used a small drill bit that I use to clean the tip of my cutting torch.

I also went thru all the steps that you have, once I cleaned the small hole in the master cylinder she has been running for 4 years.

07-28-2013, 09:32 PM	#16
dchap29 Jr. Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Brent, AL Posts: 2	It's the Mobil one oil you need to get that stuff out of your bike i had the same issue about a year ago i have replaced the same washers you damaged and put in the mean streak spring but that Mobil Oil has something in it that dont jive with the clutches __________________ *David Chapman* Login or Register to Remove Ads
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07-28-2013, 10:32 PM	#17
Killie Jr. Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Wolfforth, Texas Posts: 26	Maybe the Mobile 1 is such a slick lubricant, it lubes the clutches so well that they slip?? Especially when it warms up and gets a little thinner?? __________________ Killie "He's an old man, he's not right." (Willie speaking of Si.)
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07-29-2013, 12:28 AM	#20
Peg Sr. Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: West Coast, North Island, New Zealand Posts: 1,375	Woo-Hoo an oil thread! Seeing as how you hi-jacked it yourself though, I'll join in. I'm very happy with my Mobil 1 syn oil myself... but I'm using the 10W 40, 4T motorcycle oil which I'm absolutely sure has no friction modifiers in it that might interfere with the clutch. It's hard to keep up with where they're using modifiers these days though - so I'd be very cautious about straying too far away from what others have recommended. Changing a Nomad from mineral to synthetic oil later in life can cause it to leak a little. It's suggested the seals can swell or alter their characteristics somehow with the change. My '02 certainly did - I've experienced and then repaired the usual cam plug seepage, after changing to synthetic. But I'm not aware of any other issues that can arise from using synthetic, and I still think the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. __________________ Nothing screams poor workmanship like wrinkles in the duct tape '02 1500 blonde Nomad (Sold) '97 800 burgundy Classic (Sold) Login or Register to Remove Ads
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07-29-2013, 08:10 AM	#23
gillisfire Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Lake Charles, LA Posts: 149	I use the Mobile 1vtwin 20/50. I am just throwing it out there that maybe it was part of the problem. Like I said, I use it in my 900 custom I bought new in 2009 and love it in that bike. I am just trying to figure out what is going on wi th my Nomad. I was only looseing my clutch when my bike would get hot. So I was thinking the oil would thin to much at higher temps. I don't know. I am putting options out there and getting opinions. Not trying to start a dreaded oil argument, the clutch problem is what we need to stay on topic about. __________________ My Rides: His-2004 Nomad 1500 His-2009 Vulcan 900 custom SE Hers-2008 Suzuki C50 And restoreing 1979 Honda CB750k
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07-29-2013, 08:41 AM	#24
Jllm02199 Advanced Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Morrow, Ga. Posts: 830	Good advise Yellow Jacket. I've been there and done that. Those washers can drop down real easy. I put grease on mind to hold them. Good job gillisfire. __________________ 02 1500 Nomad (07 1600 Motor) 160,000 Red & Black 12" mini apes Galfer lines (6' over) EJK Dobeck Reckless Fairing. Led H4 headlight All LED lights Rockford Fosgate radio Last edited by Jllm02199; 07-29-2013 at 08:55 AM.
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08-01-2013, 08:54 PM	#25
gillisfire Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Lake Charles, LA Posts: 149	Well just giving an update. I received the new spring and got everything put back together. I cranked her up and went for a short test ride and she was shifting great. I got back home and shut her down, waited a few minutes, started her, AND THEN.... as before, after my bike heats up I loose power. I start my bike up, shift into 1st, roll the throttle and only the engine revs. If I put the kick stand down and let off the clutch my bike will die, so it knows it is in first gear. But when the bike is off and in 1st gear I can push it when it should be locked in gear. I am at a lose here. Does this sound like a clutch issue? I did bleed the clutch fluid again. I got one of the bleeder kits from Harbor Frieght. The fluid flows but does have some bubbles in it. So I don't know if I have a line leek or the bleeder creates the bubbles while pulling the fluid threw the lines. I looked at my clutch line but didn't see any bad spots and I don't see any signs of fluid leek. I just can not figure out why it only acts this way when every thing gets hot. So I am open to any ideas. i am so tired of driving my truck to work every day with this great riding weather we are having. __________________ My Rides: His-2004 Nomad 1500 His-2009 Vulcan 900 custom SE Hers-2008 Suzuki C50 And restoreing 1979 Honda CB750k Last edited by gillisfire; 08-01-2013 at 08:57 PM.
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08-01-2013, 09:07 PM	#27
Jeffsmountainauto Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 416	Sorry to hear of the trouble you are having. I can tell you one thing. If the clutch is not engaging it is not because of air in the line. That would cause it to not disengage. Does the clutch lever "feel" normal when it acts up? All i can think of is that, through heat expansion, something is binding when the engine is hot. __________________ 2005 1600 nomad
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08-01-2013, 10:42 PM	#29
gillisfire Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Lake Charles, LA Posts: 149	The history on this problem is, for a couple months my clutch lever would be soft when first starting the bike. As it would heat up the clutch lever would stiffen up. It finally got to the point to were the clutch lever pulled all the way in, the bike would still pull forward, so it was like the clutch wouldn't engage I picked up a bleeder kit and changed my clutch fluid, brake fluid, changed the back tire and changed the final drive gear oil. After doing all this, I went for a test ride and found as the bike warmed up that I was shifting up in gears but loosing speed with the engine reving up. I figured with the clean fluid and better clutch lever action that I lost the clutch spring. So that's why I started this thread. After the first time installing the clutch spring, the bike would not move in first gear again so I pulled the spring again to see if I did something wrong.That's when I saw I bent a tensioner spring. Ordered a new one and made sure I got every thing this time installed correctly. I never removed any of the plates and made sure to torque everything to spec. The issue only happens when the bike gets hot, after it cools off for about 30 minutes, it will work again until it gets hot. It acts like it is in gear but does not move. The clutch lever is still stiff when the issue arises and putting the kickstand down while in gear the bike will die when letting off the clutch. __________________ My Rides: His-2004 Nomad 1500 His-2009 Vulcan 900 custom SE Hers-2008 Suzuki C50 And restoreing 1979 Honda CB750k
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08-01-2013, 11:19 PM	#30
hahawil Jr. Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 17	Clutch not engaing hello I had this exact problem right after I bought my bike. I could ride it for 20 or so minutes and then I could power right thru the clutch. I flushed and changed the fluid as you did--no help. I ordered a Judge washer and installed it-- no help. After each attempt it would appear that I had it fixxed until things got good and warm. Sounding familiar, with some assistance from another Vulcan site I was told there is a second hole in the bottom of the clutch master cylinder, it bleeds the clutch fluid out of the line after the clutch lever is released. I could ride my bike until it started slipping, and then crack the banjo fitting on the master cylinder to bleed a little fluid and she would go for another 20 minutes. I found out it is not the heat that is causing the issue. It is the repeated pulling and releasing the clutch lever building up the fluid in the line and not fulling releasing the slave cylinder. If I cracked the banjo fitting on the highway and shifted up to fifth gear and cruised there, I could run out a tank of gas, only pulling the clutch lever 4 or 5 times. The master cylinder volume is slightly larger than the slave cylinder to make sure the clutch is fully released with each pull. The small hole in the front of the master cylinder releases that extra fluid and fully engages the clutch. In the bottom of the master cylinder is a larger hole that replenishes the fluid when the lever is released making sure you get a full charge with the next pull. There is a smaller hole (closer to the banjo fitting) that releases the fluid in the line when the clutch lever is released, allowing the slave cylinder to fully engage the clutch. My small hole was so plugged that it was not visible, it appeared to me that is was a small dimple from the machining process of the master cylinder. I was told that a pipe cleaner would more than likely clean the hole, but a very small drill bit was needed. I used a small drill bit that I use to clean the tip of my cutting torch. I also went thru all the steps that you have, once I cleaned the small hole in the master cylinder she has been running for 4 years.
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