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12-06-2011, 02:11 AM | #16 |
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You know, $30 and a phone call will get you some coasters (reed valve eliminator plates) from Chuckster. I just got mine and will install them some time this winter. If nothing else, that would eliminate the reed valves as a problem.
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12-06-2011, 06:28 AM | #17 |
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Interesting Tom,
I do notice that the throttle body is louder with the open intake verses the stock and maybe that is what you are hearing on acceleration. Can't think of anything else that would give off the noise, as long as you have the plug in the reed valve hose it is like having the coasters installed. Keep us posted
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12-06-2011, 05:57 PM | #18 |
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Lee, New Hampshire
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Next clue in the puzzle . . .
I just did a compression test. Spec is 50 - 85 PSI. Rear cylinder checks in at 80. Started at about 50 and climbed up to 80 from there. Front cylinder reads 160 PSI. First stroke read 90 and it climbed up to 160 over the next 3 or 4 strokes. Did the check twice just to make sure I wasn't seeing things. Also, the right plug on the front cylinder is pretty carboned up. The left plug looks reasonable. Both rear plugs look reasonable. The manual says high compression is caused by: 1) Carbon buildup possibly due to damaged valve stem, valve guide, stem oil seal and/or damaged piston oil rings. May be white exhaust smoke. 2) Incorrect cylinder head gasket thickness. 3) Damaged or missing compression release cam spring. 4) Compression release weights do not move smoothly. 2 is out. So that leaves 1, 3 or 4, unless someone knows of other causes. Wondering now if this problem has absolutely nothing to do with the intake and cam chain extenders. Just really bad timing. Time for some research on high compression. Unless someone can suggest something else to check, it looks like I'll be starting to take apart the front cylinder head in the near future. Has anyone else done that? Would appreciate any insights into the process, like do I really have to remove the engine, or is there enough room to get the top end off with the engine in the frame.
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Tom Maziarz (tomm) VBA #00766 2008 Kawasaki Nomad (Black) 1978 Suzuki GS750EC (My son is riding it now.) 2017: National Rally - Lake George, NY 2016: NE US / E Canada Rally - Mont Tremblant, QC 2015: National Rally - Eureka Springs, AR 2014: NE US / E Canada Rally - Lincoln, NH 2012: NE US / E Canada Rally - Wellsboro, PA |
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12-06-2011, 06:13 PM | #19 |
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I'd say that you broke the front cylinder tensioner when trying to force the install. So the front cylinder tensioner puts no tension on the cam chain. Now when you start the motor and while it is runing the noise is that cam chain whacking the spark plug housing and the reason you have no power is the cam timing is off on that front cylinder. The puffs of outbound air at the throttle body is your intake valve still being open when the compression stroke starts. If you haven't already bent a valve keep running the motor and things will get far enough out of time that you'll snap a valve or punch a hole in that front piston. Don't know where you got your compression specs but 50-85 psi is not right for a healthy cylinder either,
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12-06-2011, 06:48 PM | #20 | |
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Location: Lee, New Hampshire
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Quote:
What is odd though is I stuck a finger in the tensioner opening and can feel the cam chain guide. It is recessed the same distance as the extender, and doesn't seem to have any give to it when I push gently on it. But it seems to be bent right where the tensioner hits it, and it seems to end right above that with a sharp edge. The picture in the manual shows it being a smooth curve and extending quite a bit above the tensioner with a rounded end. I think I have a snapped cam chain guide although I can't figure out how that would have happened. And I know the tensioner was fully recessed when I installed it. I'll pull the spark plug tube to see if there are any marks on it, as soon as I can locate a 27 mm hex wrench. There shouldn't be any given that I added the extenders before I ran out travel, but I bet I'll find some. Also, the compression spec is on page 5-32 of the service manual, although I agree that it is a low spec. I would normally think 120 or so.
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Last edited by tomm; 12-06-2011 at 06:50 PM.
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12-06-2011, 07:27 PM | #21 | |
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Quote:
On the other hand, may be someone put a potato in one of the tail pipes.
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Last edited by ponch; 12-06-2011 at 07:32 PM.
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12-06-2011, 07:51 PM | #22 | |
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Quote:
And negative on the potato. That would be Maine, not New Hampster. And I already checked the exhaust for one of those little critters.
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12-06-2011, 07:58 PM | #23 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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12-07-2011, 09:27 AM | #24 | |
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Location: Lee, New Hampshire
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Quote:
Going to go out and buy one of those lighted telescoping mirrors today to see if I can look around inside, but I'm pretty sure I know what I'll find based on feeling around in there. Only thing I can think of is the guide is supposed to be hinged on the bottom and free on the top, and somehow, the top got pulled away from the chain and then got stuck on something. When I pushed in on the tensioner to install it, the guide didn't pivot against the chain like it should have but instead creased in the middle, either immediately or as soon as I started the engine. The rest is history. I have no explanation for how or why this would have happened because like I said, I read the instructions multiple times and followed them exactly. But figures. Hundreds of folks have probably done this mod before me without problems. Doesn't sound like anyone has ever experienced this.
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12-07-2011, 10:48 AM | #25 |
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Id take a look at your #3 & #4 causes for high compression, before you start tearing into the motor too deep.
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12-07-2011, 02:21 PM | #26 | |
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Quote:
Everything else is just a guess.
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Tom Maziarz (tomm) VBA #00766 2008 Kawasaki Nomad (Black) 1978 Suzuki GS750EC (My son is riding it now.) 2017: National Rally - Lake George, NY 2016: NE US / E Canada Rally - Mont Tremblant, QC 2015: National Rally - Eureka Springs, AR 2014: NE US / E Canada Rally - Lincoln, NH 2012: NE US / E Canada Rally - Wellsboro, PA |
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12-07-2011, 02:36 PM | #27 | |
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Quote:
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Tom Maziarz (tomm) VBA #00766 2008 Kawasaki Nomad (Black) 1978 Suzuki GS750EC (My son is riding it now.) 2017: National Rally - Lake George, NY 2016: NE US / E Canada Rally - Mont Tremblant, QC 2015: National Rally - Eureka Springs, AR 2014: NE US / E Canada Rally - Lincoln, NH 2012: NE US / E Canada Rally - Wellsboro, PA |
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12-11-2011, 02:25 PM | #28 |
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Update - Spoke with Mac about the problem. He thinks the cam chain slipped. Engine probably stopped with one lobe on the cam right at the top, and when I removed the tensioner, the cam rotated off the lobe under pressure from the valve spring and slipped the chain. It all seems to add up.
I also pulled the spark plug tube, and with a mirror and a bright light, I can see the bottom of the camshaft gear, enough to see the timing marks. Also pulled the alternator outer cover so I could rotate the crankshaft by hand. By counting teeth on the camshaft gear (there are 45), I could roughly approximate where the timing should be (I think within a tooth). Looks to be about 8 teeth off. That also seems consistent with the camshaft rotating off a lobe. Probably wouldn't have slipped just one tooth. Anyway, Mac said he would be willing to do the repair for me. I've done a lot of bike work, but think this might be just a little over my head. Although this sequence of events must be really unusual as I can't find any other reference to it anywhere on the web, It obviously can happen. I think if I were to do cam chain extenders again, I would pull the spark plug tubes and the alternator outer cover before I removed the tensioners, and rotate the crankshaft by hand until the crankshaft timing marks were lined up, the pistons were at TDC on compression, the valves were fully closed, and I could check the tension on the cam chain with my finger through the spark plug tube opening. That way, there would be absolutely no chance of this happening. Oh well. Like Thomas Edison once said. I've never failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work.
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Tom Maziarz (tomm) VBA #00766 2008 Kawasaki Nomad (Black) 1978 Suzuki GS750EC (My son is riding it now.) 2017: National Rally - Lake George, NY 2016: NE US / E Canada Rally - Mont Tremblant, QC 2015: National Rally - Eureka Springs, AR 2014: NE US / E Canada Rally - Lincoln, NH 2012: NE US / E Canada Rally - Wellsboro, PA |
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12-11-2011, 02:50 PM | #29 |
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This sounds like a nightmare scenario for sure. With Mac on the case, I'm sure you will be on the road to recovery in short order. Sounds like you know your way around a bike motor though. Good luck with the repairs.
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12-12-2011, 05:42 AM | #30 |
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Tom if there is such a thing as luck, yours sure wasn't very good with this project. This is the first case I've heard of this happening. Hope all works out for you.
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