My car tire impressions- for real

[heath3n]

We could probably purge this thread down to about 4 pages of good information. :)

[macmac]

How many miles Dan??????

[dantama]

Originally Posted by macmac

How many miles Dan??????

just under 200 miles

[hammer]

Thanks Dan, I can't thank you enough for putting all the effort in.

From reading through the real world tests you are supplying I would be looking for the 175 too and that was the reason for my question. I am not at all worried about working it at slower speeds because I think I am used to the mechanics of the Nomad.
My primary concern is in the rock and roll turns where you need to roll on power in that banked corner.

I have already ground off my boards, I was hoping to avoid grinding off my piggy bank of chances.

[upside22]

One thing to remember about a car tire on a car versus a car tire on a motorcycle is that the car usually has a slight negative camber. When doing straight ahead running, the tire typically wears off the inside half of the tire more than the outer half, even on the rear with no toe-in. That's one reason for rotating your tires every so often, to equalize the wear. The slight negative camber allows the outside tire to use its entire width in a curve as the car and suspension rolls to the outside, the camber actually goes to zero. On a motorcycle there is no camber. This isn't all bad. On a car, you actually don't get maximum braking possible from the tires because of the camber. On the motorcycle you will. On the other hand, on a car you can maximize the g-force available from the tire while on a motorcycle you can't.

At this point I'm not convinced car tires are the way to go. I don't see many motorcycle Grand Prix road racers running car tires. That doesn't mean car tires aren't a good choice for cruisers driven the way most of us drive, I'm just not convinced yet.

[macmac]

Dan I had a few minor issues till 500 miles. Usually slowing down rapidly, but what ever that was it went away after 500. I li8ke all the testing you are doing, but feel it is too soon, unless comparing again was YOUR idea anyway.

The one thing i can assure you of is that when you hit 7,000 you won't need a new tire at that time. You may be more worn than I am, since you riding style is a lot different than my laid back ideas on watching mountians slide by, but you won't need a new tire at that point

[upside22]

Originally Posted by blaneb

WWHHHAAAAATT??? The point of the url is that the motorcycle weighs exactly the same leaning as vertical so the normal force remains the same during a lean. Are you just screwing with me here? You can't be serious, can you??

Do your shocks compress in a hard turn with a lot of lean? Why do you suppose that is? The normal force stays the same? Hardly.

O.K. So what? Unsprung weight has nothing to do with the discussion of frictional force. You do understand that, don't you?? And since you seem to like stupid questions, if contact patch made any difference if the coefficient of friction, why aren't F1 tires twice as wide as they are?

The contact patch does *NOT* affect the coefficient of friction. I told you why F1 tires aren't any wider than they are. Did you not read what you replied to? What do you think unsprung weight is? (besides, tire size in F1 is specified by the rules -- those rules have many factors associated with them).

You may understand plenty, but you clearly don't understand even the basics of this discussion. Any idiot knows why race cars don't use 10 speed bicycle tires, even without understanding any of the engineering details or physics involved. It's the exact same reason race cars don't use motorcycle tires, because they do not meet the engineering requirements to support the weight, down-force, speeds and torque produced by a race car. I think any kinder-gardener will corroborate that if you don't understand

In other words you really *DON"T* know why F1 cars don't use bicycle tires.

[b]What part of reality don't YOU understand. Everything in the real world follows physical laws and again, just because you don't understand these laws, they are real. You are the only one even bringing up the possibility of bicycle tires on an F1 car, I sure didn't. The difference is that I actually understand why F1 cars don't use bicycle tires and you clearly do not.

Please, enlighten us with the details of why bicycle tires won't work on an F1 car. Don't just say "engineering requirements", that isn't actually saying anything. That's like saying the wind blows because its just its nature.

I really don't care if you, or anyone else believes me. I have not made any unsupported claims. I've quoted the laws of friction and supplied a corroborative link.

I'm sure you don't care if anyone believes you.

You didn't even bother to read the link in the article you referenced.

It states that increasing contact patch area doesn't increase friction since the same number of ridges come into contact (doubling the area results in less force applied for each delta in area so fewer ridges per unit area make contact).

This is true for a material that doesn't deform, like the steel pieces he uses in his example. That isn't necessarily true for a deformable material like rubber.

Many folks were able to understand the information and apparently you can not. If you disagree how about providing even one intelligent point for discussion instead of repeating these idiotic bicycle tire analogies. I welcome you to disprove any information I provided, it should be easy since I'm so wrong.

Why don't you go down to your local drag race track and ask the Pure Stock racers why they don't use 185R60's instead of 235R60's since it would decrease unsprung weight and provide exactly the same amount of traction as the wider tire? Be prepared for some open mouth stares.

The real world disproves your claims every weekend at every drag race track world wide.

[dantama]

Hey guys, this is starting to sound like watching a couple fighting in a restaurant.

I'm sure that you both have good useful information, but getting that information out to the rest of us isn't working so well. If you would either both agree to disagree, or keep going at each other in private messages till one of you concedes, that might work out better for the rest of us.

If you guys interacted with each other in private messages, but still talked to the rest of us as a group of fellow riders then we'd get more out of it.

[socwkbiker]

Ok, time to move this thread.

[dougster]

Thanks, Dan and Trip. I was about to suggest the same thing. KawaNow is about comraderie and encouragement to our fellow KawaNow members (i.e. Nomad riders). As many have said, KawaNow is a great group because of this attitude, and this board has shown this comraderie again and again. It is not the place for a "I know more than you" argument.

[Bdog]

Wow..I go away to work for a week, come back home and we have 6 more pages on this topic. Cool..looks like we all have an opinion and are willing to speak up. I too agree to keep buying tires for my bike and they will be the good ones that work best because the black bikes are the fastest of all..Bdog

[Kawhead]

Take the Karma, move the thread..........after a while no more mad or frowny icons. :(" title="" border="0"/> :( All we''l have is happy :)
I don't even think Blowndodge has posted on this thread so we kain't blame him.

200 miles Dan ??? Please be careful, that mold coat is SLICK! It is written to take it easy for 500 mile to burn it off. I promise you after 6 to 700 miles your gonna have a different tire and bike. And then get out there and show your butt.

[dantama]

Originally Posted by Kawhead

Take the Karma, move the thread..........after a while no more mad or frowny icons. :(" title="" border="0"/> :( All we''l have is happy :)
I don't even think Blowndodge has posted on this thread so we kain't blame him.

200 miles Dan ??? Please be careful, that mold coat is SLICK! It is written to take it easy for 500 mile to burn it off. I promise you after 6 to 700 miles your gonna have a different tire and bike. And then get out there and show your butt.

I had hoped that doing a ton of parking lot practice leaving black circles on the concrete would hasten the mold coat removal compared to just riding down the highway. The stadium where the Denver Broncos play has a parking lot full of black circles now :)


SWB, moving a motorcycle and Nomad specific topic into the *Off Motorcycle Topics* board? That's a bit of a mixed message? Kind of makes it seem like this board is the debate board, even if it's about Nomads. You might consider moving it back and locking it. Or putting it in the Safety and Riding Techniques board, but down here in the off topic seems strange.

For those who are following this thread with interest, I don't get down to this board much, so if I have any followup information after putting more miles on it, I'll start a new thread in the right forum. We'll hopefully keep that one friendly so we don't get booted out :)

[garyo4]

I agree. Let's keep this topic alive without the "ego" factor. Hopefully it (the c/t impression) won't continue to live here in the basement of boards.

[Bdog]

Dan..I think the "cult" removed it!!! ..Bdog