vacuum check

[stangcrasher]

Ok so heres the deal. Got a hypercharger, hooked it up started the bike. Butterflies only close about halfway, and flutter like crazy with the lope of the engine. This makes a ticking noise and is very annoying. Called tech support at kuryakyn and they said check the vacuum. Put a gauge on it and the needle flutters just as bad as the butterflies. Now heres where i get real confused. Bike idles down nicely just like it did before. Runs great, no hiccuping or hesitation. if you pull the vacuum line off, idle rises as it should, plug it with your finger and you can feel the pull of the vacuum, but pulsing. I know i didn't pull off any other vacuum hoses, besides the one that goes to the vacuum body that activates the reed valves, which shouldn't effect anything since these are marbled. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? I'm stumped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blowndodge]

did you cap the two ICS vacuum tubes that the Idle solenoids were plugged into??
did you run the crankcase breather under the engine?

[macmac]

If you don't like the ticking and flapping, plug the vac take off, and the plates will be open. All that is, is a bigger freeer flow air filter housing.

You get more air, and that's it. The flappers don't do anything on way or the other... Just bling and looks.

The unit is too short to even be like velocity tubes, and or ram air, and since there is no kind of impellors, there is no more than a good free flow air filter..

The flappers don't do squat.. I like the look of these myself, but I would work it manually, closing the flappers parked, Opening them to ride. Wide open and locked.

The vacuum is engine vacuum, and it peaks on intake strokes... If these bikes had 4 clys AND a single intake manifiold the vac would tend to be more constant, but they are not.

With your finger blocking the vac port the bike is running like it should. When you lift your finger and allow a LEAK, then the engine rpm goes up, because there is no load... The bike is at rest and can afford that leaner mix. Try riding it with that leak and you will find a flat spot getting moving..

Any 2 x 9 KN filter will do the same thing as any hyper charger... IF they are mounted on the right side.

BD's questions are still valid, you still need to get that done if it isn't.

If you like the fluttering make padds to dampen the clicking.

Personally I wouldn't own a hypercharger, but if you want to run the flappers with vacuum here's what I would do:

Make a small vacuum reservoir and hide it under the tank or the seat. Or make a fancy aluminum, stainless or chrome one and show it off under the hypercharger so it looks like you're "on the bottle" or something.

All a vacuum reservoir is is an empty airtight canister located in the hose that goes to the flapper control diaphragm. It usually has a smaller hole in the fitting that goes towards the engine than the fitting going towards the vacuum device. It "holds" some vacuum all the time and evens out all those pulses at idle.

For that hypercharger one that holds about 6 ounces should more than suffice. Gadget shows how to easily make one from common plastic fittings on his cruise control article. The larger you make it the less the flappers will flutter, but the slower they will respond to any change in throttle.

[stangcrasher]

Yeah, i plugged both hoses and ran the crankcase breather to the fitting supplied on the hypercharger. I know the flappers don't really do anything on the hypercharger, and seeing how they are built now i would never buy one again, its a piss poor design. However, they won't take the unit back because its been installed on the bike so i figure if i paid all that money for it i'd at least like it to work the way its supposed to. Kuryakyn told me its a bad vaccum body and are sending me a new one, but i don't really see this being the problem. Ill try it out, but don't think its gonna be the fix. Lesson to be learned: novelty gizmos are just another stupid thing that aren't needed and will drive you insane when they don't friggin work right. Shoulda bought a thunder or barons kit.

[blowndodge]

Not to jump on the bandwagon stangcrasher but I agree with your thoughts on that product. You not getting anything extra that any other well designed right sided air cleaner mod gives you. If I did mine I'd pay the money to get thunder Mfg stealth kit.

Originally Posted by Blowndodge "Darksider"

..You not getting anything extra that any other well designed right sided air cleaner mod gives you....

Except a headache.

[macmac]

The hyper charger is supposed to flutter.. It's like tit's! I am a sucker for moving parts, but still that's all this does. I am not any to sure it helps air flow when there is vacuum in the manifold as it may well get in the way of proper air flow.

Engine vacuum varries depending on the throttle position. I don't 'know' Nad spec but at idle is must be somewhere between 17 and 22 inches of mercury, but in pulses as the intake gulps air. A ordinary vac gauge will flutter the needle as well, unless it is limited one way or another.

Depending on how much and how fast you open the throttle the plates will slow their fluttering and become open at wide open throttle.

I don't know if anyone remembers vac operated car windshield wipers but they worked more or less the same way. They worked well at idle, and at partial throttle settings, but with a wide open throttle they just stopped working at all.

Since the flappers flap I don't think a new unit is going to change much.

Volvo used a vac pod, which can probably be had in a junk yard fopr nearly nothing. It is a series of 3 or 4 plastic balls in line. I would have no idea where we could mount that on a Vulcan of any kind, but it would dampen the flappers movements.

To me the whole thing is wrong.. I would want the flappers to close when the bike was off.. and then maybe flap some at idle 'IF' that doesn't mess up clean free air flow. The flapping is for show, and then at say 1/4 throttle just be open from there and up in RPM.

Velocity stakes work to gather more air, and clean the flow line of the air, smoothing it to make it flow into carbs, and perhaps FI intakes, but I have never seen one on any FI set up.

With carbs the more ait you can gather clean in terms of air stream the more it will take into the combustion chamber. The thing there is the venturi and the intake manifold must also 'Atomize' the fuel mixed in, where as injectors create a spray pattern which is essential to a good burn.

So with injected engine while you still want the air you don't need to swirl it in the intake to blast the fuel into 'Atoms'.

A good injector does that by the way the valve on the injector works.

A good injector looks something like a garden hose with a adjustable nozzel, and set to fine circular mist.

One example of this almost excactly is Bosch CIS (constant injection system) which is mechanical injection. This is different than Nomad.

The CIS system mists fuel ALL the time to ALL the injectors which mist fuel directly behind the intake valves, whether or not they are open or closed.

Most electronic injectors mist fuel on a triggered pulse behind the intake valves. Back in the 70's it was discovered techs would place the wires on the wrong injectors and still not much difference occured. That was with Bosch D and L Jetronic systems.

The common thing between all of these injectors was the mist pattern, being like that garden hose, whether or not it was ALL the time mist, or pulse mist timed by the ECU.

I have seen 'dirty' injectors more than I might like and cleaned a good many with varsol under pressure. SOmetimes they clean up and somethines they don't because like anything with fluid passing and under pressure things errode.

A bad injector creates a stream flow like that garden hose set to spray a single power stream, or like that with a partial mist, but concentrates the stream too much for good 'Atomization'.

So I have no way to prove the flappers mess up air stream, but I can see they might.

[stangcrasher]

Caddman your right!!!!!!!!!! I need some friggin tylenol! Guess ill start trying some things to tone down the vibration and get rid of the noise.

[doctorgski]

Is a filter necessary for the crankcase breather?

Originally Posted by doctorgski

Is a filter necessary for the crankcase breather?

Yes. Unless you like your oil really dirty & don't mind frequent piston changes. ;)

[doctorgski]

A old Harley rider told me they were not necessary, I knew he was wrong! Thanks...