Harley Harley Harley Harley Harley

[Fooch]

Okay I finally did it. After being pressured from the guys in my club about Harley Davidson being the greatest thing on earth since Jesus, I finally took one for a test ride with the possibility of buying one. Got to the dealer and they looked over my 2011 Voyager with a fine tooth comb and went to get me a trade-in price while I took a Road Glide Ultra for a ride.
From the moment I sat on the bike and took off, I wasn't impressed. Clutch action was a little quicker then the Voyager. Pickup may have been a little faster too. But the vibration was ridiculous, even while moving. I don't see the attraction in that. Then the pedals really sucked. Both the brake pedal and the shifter were so close in to the frame, it made it difficult and uncomfortable to brake and shift, and I'm only 6", 250 lbs. The salesman said I could buy an extended brake pedal. It didn't have a gear indicator. Not that it's mandatory, but it is really nice to have. And the entire dashboard was just ho hum. I like mine way better. I still don't get the CD player. When we got back from the test ride, I didn't even bother finding out what their deal would be. So I guess I'll be ridiculed by the guys in my club forever. I won't be 'welcomed' and feel the love at Harley dealerships everywhere I go, as one guy said, and I won't have to stop at every Harley dealership I pass, as they do, but I'll still love what I ride.

[spoon059]

I'm 6-04 and find that the FL platform (road king, street glide, electra glide, etc) are all too short for me to ride comfortably. One of the reasons, besides ridiculous cost, I got the Nomad was the fact that it is several inches longer. The Harley's sound nice, and the Road King classic with the leather style bags sure looks nice... but the cost, unreliability, size and discomfort throw me off every time. Of course EVERYONE in my MC rides a Harley, but I just don't quite understand the draw. Thats fine with me though, makes my bike easy to find amongst the HD's... its the only one without the oil leak!!!

[cactusjack]

Originally Posted by spoon059

I'm 6-04 and find that the FL platform (road king, street glide, electra glide, etc) are all too short for me to ride comfortably. One of the reasons, besides ridiculous cost, I got the Nomad was the fact that it is several inches longer. The Harley's sound nice, and the Road King classic with the leather style bags sure looks nice... but the cost, unreliability, size and discomfort throw me off every time. Of course EVERYONE in my MC rides a Harley, but I just don't quite understand the draw. Thats fine with me though, makes my bike easy to find amongst the HD's... its the only one without the oil leak!!!

Please explain the "unreliability", I'd like to hear about that.

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by cactusjack

Please explain the "unreliability", I'd like to hear about that.

Originally Posted by cactusjack

They sold ninety six unreliable bikes in one month? Wow.

Wow... seems like I hit a nerve... Let me give you a little of my background experience with HD. My cousin is a private Harley mechanic in Florida, he fixes and upgrades Harley's in his own shop and makes really good money.

When I was looking at bikes, he and I had an honest conversation about what he felt were problem areas with a Harley. He has been a Harley rider forever and loves them... but he has the knowledge and ability to fix them himself. He is of the opinion that I should avoid the Twin Cam engine because they have a lot of issues.

The first thing he mentioned is that HD stock oil pumps are weak and should be upgraded. Having low oil pressure can lead to major engine issues, something he see's on a regular basis. Also leading to oil issues is the cam shoe issue whereby the cam chain follower disintegrates and debris can get caught in the oil pump. I was looking at a 1999 Roadking and he advised me to stay away due to cam bearing issues.

He also mentioned that Harley recommends replacing the the belt drive at 30K miles. Thats a couple hundred bucks right there.

Crank flywheels are pressed together, not welded. He recommended taking them out and having them welded... another additional cost.

Newer models with the 96ci engine had transmission troubles in the inner bearings. After a couple model years they redesigned it, but if you own one before the change, you might have problems and need to purchase and install an update kit from Harley.

He is worried about the recent uptick in engine size that Harley is doing to keep their engines bigger than Victory engines. The increased engine size leads to higher operating temps and he is worried about long term damage from higer temps. Several of the guys in my club have 2012 (or newer..?) Harleys with the 103ci stock engine. They love them, but they are all relatively low mileage still.

Sorry if this information hurts your feelings, but it is what it is. $20K bike new and you need to consider changing out the oil pump, welding internal engine parts, upgrading the transmission, etc etc.

My Honda has almost 40K trouble free miles. I changed the oil, tires and brakes on that thing and rode the heck out of it. To me, a motorcycle is a toy... something that is relatively cheap to own and something that I can have fun with. When it came time to upgrade to a bagger, I wanted to continue to have a reliable bike that I could fix issues myself and could afford to buy cash. I have been looking at Nomads since I bought my first bike 12 years ago and I hope that it proves to be as reliable and easy to maintain as my Honda has been

I have a lot of friends that have and LOVE their Harleys... more power to them! These are also the guys that ride a thousand miles a year and can afford to have them fixed and won't miss the riding time. They also have the money to get a custom paint job, add on chrome pieces, etc etc.

If you love your bike as much as it sounds, that is great for you. I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone else, not to own one. I am just adding my opinion to the thread in a KAWASAKI NOMAD FORUM about why I prefer the KAWASAKI NOMAD. Again... sorry that my opinions upset you so much. Go for a ride tomorrow and forget all about what I have said... its great therapy. Safe riding and have fun!

[ponch]

From what I understand, debris from the cam chain followers leads to the oil pump and other failures. There are remediations to it, but using a good fully synthetic oil that is changed regularly will go a long way in delaying problems. Even the 1500/1600 Nomad has issues with cam chains that if not dealt with will wreck the engine.

Oh yeah, KZ1000s had pressed crank pins. The only time they needed to be welded is if the engine was modified. Even in stock form for a 34 year old bike made more power than a current big twin HD and it seemed to work pretty well.

Engines are designed within certain performance constraints with reliability in mind. Change the configuration from stock and variables are introduced that may lead to less reliability.

[elvis]

Originally Posted by spoon059

.....
He also mentioned that Harley recommends replacing the the belt drive at 30K miles. Thats a couple hundred bucks right there....

That does not sound reasonable to me. Belts have been used by many motorcycle manufacturers including H-D for many years and that technology has come a long way.

H-D periodic maintenance intervals does not recommend belt replacement at 30K (see attached) and the service manual also shows how to inspect the belt wear pattern which is quite amazing to see that the belt may still take you home when damaged like that (also see attached).

[cactusjack]

Originally Posted by spoon059

Wow... seems like I hit a nerve... Let me give you a little of my background experience with HD. My cousin is a private Harley mechanic in Florida, he fixes and upgrades Harley's in his own shop and makes really good money.

When I was looking at bikes, he and I had an honest conversation about what he felt were problem areas with a Harley. He has been a Harley rider forever and loves them... but he has the knowledge and ability to fix them himself. He is of the opinion that I should avoid the Twin Cam engine because they have a lot of issues.

The first thing he mentioned is that HD stock oil pumps are weak and should be upgraded. Having low oil pressure can lead to major engine issues, something he see's on a regular basis. Also leading to oil issues is the cam shoe issue whereby the cam chain follower disintegrates and debris can get caught in the oil pump. I was looking at a 1999 Roadking and he advised me to stay away due to cam bearing issues.

He also mentioned that Harley recommends replacing the the belt drive at 30K miles. Thats a couple hundred bucks right there.

Crank flywheels are pressed together, not welded. He recommended taking them out and having them welded... another additional cost.

Newer models with the 96ci engine had transmission troubles in the inner bearings. After a couple model years they redesigned it, but if you own one before the change, you might have problems and need to purchase and install an update kit from Harley.

He is worried about the recent uptick in engine size that Harley is doing to keep their engines bigger than Victory engines. The increased engine size leads to higher operating temps and he is worried about long term damage from higer temps. Several of the guys in my club have 2012 (or newer..?) Harleys with the 103ci stock engine. They love them, but they are all relatively low mileage still.

Sorry if this information hurts your feelings, but it is what it is. $20K bike new and you need to consider changing out the oil pump, welding internal engine parts, upgrading the transmission, etc etc.

My Honda has almost 40K trouble free miles. I changed the oil, tires and brakes on that thing and rode the heck out of it. To me, a motorcycle is a toy... something that is relatively cheap to own and something that I can have fun with. When it came time to upgrade to a bagger, I wanted to continue to have a reliable bike that I could fix issues myself and could afford to buy cash. I have been looking at Nomads since I bought my first bike 12 years ago and I hope that it proves to be as reliable and easy to maintain as my Honda has been

I have a lot of friends that have and LOVE their Harleys... more power to them! These are also the guys that ride a thousand miles a year and can afford to have them fixed and won't miss the riding time. They also have the money to get a custom paint job, add on chrome pieces, etc etc.

If you love your bike as much as it sounds, that is great for you. I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone else, not to own one. I am just adding my opinion to the thread in a KAWASAKI NOMAD FORUM about why I prefer the KAWASAKI NOMAD. Again... sorry that my opinions upset you so much. Go for a ride tomorrow and forget all about what I have said... its great therapy. Safe riding and have fun!

You have never owned a Harley but consider them "unreliable" based on someone else's opinion. I have owned a Nomad and can speak from first hand experience about them. I bought my Nomad brand new, and put 52,000 relatively trouble free miles on it. It had its own issues, to be sure. I have no reason to believe that my Harley will be any less reliable.

If your cousin worked on Kawasakis, you'd hear horror stories about them too. Same thing if he worked on Buicks or Maytag washing machines. Spend enough time here and you'll hear about some of them.

Harley has no scheduled drive belt replacement based on mileage. It's an "inspect and replace if defective" service. Many belts last beyond 100,000 miles. Mechanical devices have moving parts and moving parts require maintenance and can fail.

[cnc]

Originally Posted by cactusjack

You have never owned a Harley but consider them "unreliable" based on someone else's opinion. I have owned a Nomad and can speak from first hand experience about them. I bought my Nomad brand new, and put 52,000 relatively trouble free miles on it. It had its own issues, to be sure. I have no reason to believe that my Harley will be any less reliable.

If your cousin worked on Kawasakis, you'd hear horror stories about them too. Same thing if he worked on Buicks or Maytag washing machines. Spend enough time here and you'll hear about some of them.

Harley has no scheduled drive belt replacement based on mileage. It's an "inspect and replace if defective" service. Many belts last beyond 100,000 miles. Mechanical devices have moving parts and moving parts require maintenance and can fail.

Scott don't get me started on my Maytag.

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by cactusjack

You have never owned a Harley but consider them "unreliable" based on someone else's opinion. I have owned a Nomad and can speak from first hand experience about them. I bought my Nomad brand new, and put 52,000 relatively trouble free miles on it. It had its own issues, to be sure. I have no reason to believe that my Harley will be any less reliable.

If your cousin worked on Kawasakis, you'd hear horror stories about them too. Same thing if he worked on Buicks or Maytag washing machines. Spend enough time here and you'll hear about some of them.

Harley has no scheduled drive belt replacement based on mileage. It's an "inspect and replace if defective" service. Many belts last beyond 100,000 miles. Mechanical devices have moving parts and moving parts require maintenance and can fail.

I'm glad you enjoy your Harley, like hundreds of thousands of people do. I related my opinion about them. My opinion is my opinion, not sure why you want to argue opinions over the internet...
I bought my Honda for $4000, 10 years ago. Thats $400 a year... good cheap fun.
I bought my Nomad for $3000 and plan to ride it for 10 years or so. Thats $300 a year.... good cheap fun.
The cheapest Harley Roadking I could find was a 1999 for $8500. Thats the year with known issues, whether you want to believe it or not, AND it was almost 3 times as expensive as my Nomad. I am sure that the Roadkings are great machines... but not at 3 times the cost IN MY OPINION. I am aware of the common issues with the Nomad and I feel confident in my ability to repair/replace them. I am aware of the common issues with the 99 Roadking and do NOT feel confident in my ability to repair/replace them.

Again... enjoy your bike, I am sure enjoying mine! Keep it shiny side up and put the miles on!

[manban9888]

Harley has some nice bikes but I still walk into my garage and my sweet 08 black n red Nomad and smile from ear to ear. I don't know of a better bang for your buck ride. If I ever need another bike it'll be a Nomad

[REDWIND]

Originally Posted by manban9888

I still walk into my garage and look my sweet 08 black n red Nomad and smile from ear to ear.

I do that too.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by manban9888

Harley has some nice bikes but I still walk into my garage and my sweet 08 black n red Nomad and smile from ear to ear. I don't know of a better bang for your buck ride. If I ever need another bike it'll be a Nomad

The new nomad is over 16K now, which puts it in a different price class from the old one.

[sacarriker]

Originally Posted by manban9888

Harley has some nice bikes but I still walk into my garage and my sweet 08 black n red Nomad and smile from ear to ear. I don't know of a better bang for your buck ride. If I ever need another bike it'll be a Nomad

I went and rode the ultra classic, and the road glide ultra. There is not more bang for the buck. The Voyager is twice the bike that those are. My wife and I were cramped on both bikes. The Voyager is not just a better bargain, it's a better bike!

I have a Dyna wide glide. It's fun to have but does not compare in ridability to my wife's 900. If you want a Harley, get one. You have to be committed to ride it. They are cool and different but not better unless that's what you want.

[cactusjack]

Originally Posted by sacarriker

I went and rode the ultra classic, and the road glide ultra. There is not more bang for the buck. The Voyager is twice the bike that those are. My wife and I were cramped on both bikes. The Voyager is not just a better bargain, it's a better bike!

I have a Dyna wide glide. It's fun to have but does not compare in ridability to my wife's 900. If you want a Harley, get one. You have to be committed to ride it. They are cool and different but not better unless that's what you want.

I've ridden both a 1700 Nomad and a Voyager and neither of them seemed to have any more room to me than my Electra Glide. In fact, I rode the Voyager and Electra Glide about 30 minutes apart and ergonomically, they felt very similar. Mechanically, you're right - one is probably no better than the other. By the same token one is no worse than the other.

I very seriously considered buying a Voyager when I was bike shopping, but they didn't have an ABS model in stock and I felt the dealer was playing games with me. I also have never liked the saddlebags on the 1700 Nomad and Voyager.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by cactusjack

I've ridden both a 1700 Nomad and a Voyager and neither of them seemed to have any more room to me than my Electra Glide. In fact, I rode the Voyager and Electra Glide about 30 minutes apart and ergonomically, they felt very similar. Mechanically, you're right - one is probably no better than the other. By the same token one is no worse than the other.

I very seriously considered buying a Voyager when I was bike shopping, but they didn't have an ABS model in stock and I felt the dealer was playing games with me. I also have never liked the saddlebags on the 1700 Nomad and Voyager.

The luggage seems a bit flimsy and there is a decent amount of chromed plastic. It's probably some of the areas they cut corners to save costs. I did think the floorboards on the Voyager had a little more room and it seemed slightly less cramped, but it wasn't a big deal.

Once you live with a bike for awhile, you find out the good and the bad, like anything else and hopefully make adjustments to make it work. Most test rides only give a foreshadowing at best.