Loss of electrical power intermittent

bladenbullet · 03-29-2023, 12:37 PM

Interesting situation. Sorry it's long. 2003 nomad. Just replaced both stators (in another thread). Everything went textbook with one damaged ground wire replaced from both stators to the battery ground cable. All tests good.
While riding the bike may backfire on upshifts and the warning lamps blink at the same time. I can sometimes get it to act up chopping the throttle when I'm accelerating. It is very intermittent and I cannot duplicate it while sitting still. The bike runs like a champ otherwise.
This morning I was playing on the way to work to see if I could isolate it. I lost all electrical power for a good 15 seconds while I coasted down the road. Then it restarted. "ALL" electrical power...lights were dead...dash was dead...bike was dead...like the ignition was shut off.
It acts as though the ignition switch is turned off then back on again rapidly. That accounts for the warning lamps flickering when it acts up on an upshift.
I pulled the left side cover and double checked all of my connections. Removed, cleaned and reassembled the engine ground and all battery connections. Performed some voltage drops to confirm good connections (ac also at stator connections). Everything checks out. I even ran it while I tugged on every harness and connection on the bike. Nothing.
Took it out for a short ride after all that and it is still there. I'm leaning toward a possible ignition switch or main relay concern but it's hard to isolate anything because I have to moving to get it to act up.
I generally go all the way back to where I was but am having a hard time believing anything inside the stator housings could be causing it. Prove me wrong and I'll tear it back apart in a second.
For background before any of the "take it to someone who knows what theyre doing" crowd shows up...I am an ase master tech with 34 years automotive repair experience and teach at a technical college now for the last 10 years.
I'm hoping for a direction from the experience here. If I could get it to act up sitting still I'd be all over it. It's so quick when it happens that I didnt even notice the warning lamps flick on and off until i rode it into work in the dark. Only the periodic backfire.
I also had the tank off and flushed the cooling system when I finished the stators. So there has been a fair amount of water introduced to the electrics. "ive been through all of them and did some wd40 squirting to dry some areas out. It has been several days since the repairs and it has been warm and dry here (sw florida). I've unplugged everything to check connections...etc.
Throw me a lifeline...lol...

redjay · 03-29-2023, 02:22 PM

Is it possible to bypass the ignition switch and take the switch out of the equation just to confirm the issue is with the switch and not something else ?

I seem to remember other forum members have had issues with the ignition switch.

bladenbullet · 03-29-2023, 02:43 PM

I just finished disassembling and cleaning the switch. It isn't exactly rebuild friendly and little detent balls can be a bitch to get back where they belong blind but i cleaned up the contact pad (a little gray and some tracks on it-it sanded very smooth) and ran it through some checks. I'll find out more on my ride home.

MrMikey · 03-29-2023, 04:31 PM

I had a Nomad many years ago. Same deal, for no reason it would quit for a couple seconds and then act like nothing was wrong. Ignition lights would come on and then they'd go off and she'd continue running. Sometimes would go for a month no problem then it would happen a bunch of times in a row.
I always suspected the ignition switch but never got around to it (...kept putting it off actually :-)) and think I confirmed it.
It happened on a straight stretch or highway with no one behind me. I reached down and flicked the switch and she started right up. I realized afterwards that I had a good size leather fob on the key which made me think that the fob was causing the key to turn slightly or vibrate causing a momentary disconnect. I took the fob off and never had another shutdown.

**ringadingh** · 03-29-2023, 06:10 PM

I also think that the ignition switch is the first place to check, also I once had a similar problem where one cylinder would cut in and out sometimes. It ended up being a loose wire one one of the ignition coils.

bladenbullet · 03-29-2023, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMikey

I had a Nomad many years ago. Same deal, for no reason it would quit for a couple seconds and then act like nothing was wrong. Ignition lights would come on and then they'd go off and she'd continue running. Sometimes would go for a month no problem then it would happen a bunch of times in a row.
I always suspected the ignition switch but never got around to it (...kept putting it off actually :-)) and think I confirmed it.
It happened on a straight stretch or highway with no one behind me. I reached down and flicked the switch and she started right up. I realized afterwards that I had a good size leather fob on the key which made me think that the fob was causing the key to turn slightly or vibrate causing a momentary disconnect. I took the fob off and never had another shutdown.

No heavy fob here but an extra key...still leaning in the direction of the switch but i'll try the key only thing when i get some time this weekend...not riding it now cause i need to know i'm gonna make it to work and back...lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by ringadingh

I also think that the ignition switch is the first place to check, also I once had a similar problem where one cylinder would cut in and out sometimes. It ended up being a loose wire one one of the ignition coils.

this is loss of all electrical power...i plane on taking the tank back off this weekend and doing some exploring under there...i only propped it back when i did the coolant flush and maybe i irritated a bad connection while i was there...she's 20 years old and a good once over couldnt hurt at this point...

bladenbullet · 03-29-2023, 06:22 PM

I greatly appreciate the feedback from everyone...this place has some great experience with these bikes and i knew there would be some good ideas flying around...

like i tell my students...intermittents can be a nightmare...if it dies altogether i can tell you why...when it dangles an occasional carrot youre in for a head scratcher until you put the puzzle together one piece at a time...

i keep looking at those stator covers wondering but it hasnt brought any possibilities to mind yet...i am a stickler for going back to where i worked and looking for something i may have missed....i just dont see it in there...

**plumber63** · 03-29-2023, 09:11 PM

Did you check the ground connections on the brake side just down in front of the battery? With the ground burnt up you had on the stators it a place to look. They are known to come loose and burn up.

bladenbullet · 03-30-2023, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plumber63

Did you check the ground connections on the brake side just down in front of the battery? With the ground burnt up you had on the stators it a place to look. They are known to come loose and burn up.

If you're talking about the engine Block ground in front of the battery on the engine...yes...removed, cleaned and reinstalled. If there's another I'm missing I'll be all over the bike this weekend checking everything I can find. I'm hoping I just missed something simple. Either way I'll find it.
Keep shooting ideas out there. Appreciate it. I may bypass the ignition switch if I run out of answers. It seems like a likely possibility. I haven't gone to the connector yet. Once the tank is off that will be easier.

**plumber63** · 03-30-2023, 08:30 PM

There is a bunch of black with yellow strip wires that come together in a bundle all taped up. These are known to get loose and melt/burn apart.

bladenbullet · 03-31-2023, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plumber63

There is a bunch of black with yellow strip wires that come together in a bundle all taped up. These are known to get loose and melt/burn apart.

Any idea on a location?...I did have the two black/yellow wires from the stators to the battery ground cable melt at the connector...i replaced them with a large gauge wire with a soldered splice at the split...i havent run into a group splice anywhere else yet..

i'll keep looking...

i have voltage dropped the grounds ive found and had nothing indicate and are compromised..

i even bypassed the kickstand safety switch thinking it might be intermittently going open...no dice...

i am starting to lean toward the ignition switch as it is a total power interruption...coincidentally i noticed during my trip that the key was getting difficult to remove at times...i also noticed that it doesnt take much movement from the on position to shut it down...i cant confirm this is an issue while riding but it is starting to give me enough trouble to make replacing the 20 year old part with a new one...

**plumber63** · 04-01-2023, 02:32 PM

they are on the brake side, forward and below battery area.
I think you are probably on the right track with the ignition switch being the issue.

bladenbullet · 04-09-2023, 05:06 PM

Waiting for parts...I pulled the stator cover and outer stator off just to get a peek back in there to make sure I didn't miss anything...I've pulled the terminals out of every connector I could find and tightened connections...unless I've got a dfi relay or something hidden somewhere I'm betting on the b ignition switch...there isn't much else that can kill the whole bike...I'll let you know when I figure it out...if I do...lol. .

Kybenz · 04-10-2023, 12:00 PM

On my '05 1600 there is a ground junction under the seat where all the grounds come together in a plastic connecter that is taped over.
On mine this was a failure point causing multiple electrical gremlins.

CMQ · 04-18-2023, 10:48 PM

The Nomad is well known to have a weak key switch, and the things have a tendency to melt internally if you try to run accessory lights off of the same circuit without a relay.

Bypassing the key switch should prove/disprove this.

My 2004 nomad has never had this happen in 19 years and 40,000 miles. However I have had the kickstand switch shut the bike off several times on a bump, because the bolt that holds the kickstand has a tendency to vibrate loose.

03-29-2023, 12:37 PM	#1
bladenbullet Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Southwestern Florida Posts: 115	Loss of electrical power intermittent Interesting situation. Sorry it's long. 2003 nomad. Just replaced both stators (in another thread). Everything went textbook with one damaged ground wire replaced from both stators to the battery ground cable. All tests good. While riding the bike may backfire on upshifts and the warning lamps blink at the same time. I can sometimes get it to act up chopping the throttle when I'm accelerating. It is very intermittent and I cannot duplicate it while sitting still. The bike runs like a champ otherwise. This morning I was playing on the way to work to see if I could isolate it. I lost all electrical power for a good 15 seconds while I coasted down the road. Then it restarted. "ALL" electrical power...lights were dead...dash was dead...bike was dead...like the ignition was shut off. It acts as though the ignition switch is turned off then back on again rapidly. That accounts for the warning lamps flickering when it acts up on an upshift. I pulled the left side cover and double checked all of my connections. Removed, cleaned and reassembled the engine ground and all battery connections. Performed some voltage drops to confirm good connections (ac also at stator connections). Everything checks out. I even ran it while I tugged on every harness and connection on the bike. Nothing. Took it out for a short ride after all that and it is still there. I'm leaning toward a possible ignition switch or main relay concern but it's hard to isolate anything because I have to moving to get it to act up. I generally go all the way back to where I was but am having a hard time believing anything inside the stator housings could be causing it. Prove me wrong and I'll tear it back apart in a second. For background before any of the "take it to someone who knows what theyre doing" crowd shows up...I am an ase master tech with 34 years automotive repair experience and teach at a technical college now for the last 10 years. I'm hoping for a direction from the experience here. If I could get it to act up sitting still I'd be all over it. It's so quick when it happens that I didnt even notice the warning lamps flick on and off until i rode it into work in the dark. Only the periodic backfire. I also had the tank off and flushed the cooling system when I finished the stators. So there has been a fair amount of water introduced to the electrics. "ive been through all of them and did some wd40 squirting to dry some areas out. It has been several days since the repairs and it has been warm and dry here (sw florida). I've unplugged everything to check connections...etc. Throw me a lifeline...lol... Login or Register to Remove Ads Last edited by bladenbullet; 03-29-2023 at 12:40 PM.
	0

03-29-2023, 04:31 PM	#4
MrMikey Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 405	I had a Nomad many years ago. Same deal, for no reason it would quit for a couple seconds and then act like nothing was wrong. Ignition lights would come on and then they'd go off and she'd continue running. Sometimes would go for a month no problem then it would happen a bunch of times in a row. I always suspected the ignition switch but never got around to it (...kept putting it off actually :-)) and think I confirmed it. It happened on a straight stretch or highway with no one behind me. I reached down and flicked the switch and she started right up. I realized afterwards that I had a good size leather fob on the key which made me think that the fob was causing the key to turn slightly or vibrate causing a momentary disconnect. I took the fob off and never had another shutdown. __________________ '09 Voyager
	1

03-29-2023, 06:10 PM	#5
ringadingh Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Newmarket Ontario Canada Posts: 35,387	I also think that the ignition switch is the first place to check, also I once had a similar problem where one cylinder would cut in and out sometimes. It ended up being a loose wire one one of the ignition coils. __________________ 2002 Nomad aka Bountyhunter VBA #27 VROC #18951 Login or Register to Remove Ads
	1

03-29-2023, 09:11 PM	#8
plumber63 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 996	Did you check the ground connections on the brake side just down in front of the battery? With the ground burnt up you had on the stators it a place to look. They are known to come loose and burn up. __________________ Troy Donat VBA #02401 2015 Voyager 2006 1600 Nomad black(sold) 2016 Salem, Antlers, 2017 Eureka Springs, Lake George, Antlers 2018 Custer NR, Antlers
	1

03-30-2023, 08:30 PM	#10
plumber63 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 996	There is a bunch of black with yellow strip wires that come together in a bundle all taped up. These are known to get loose and melt/burn apart. __________________ Troy Donat VBA #02401 2015 Voyager 2006 1600 Nomad black(sold) 2016 Salem, Antlers, 2017 Eureka Springs, Lake George, Antlers 2018 Custer NR, Antlers
	1

03-29-2023, 02:22 PM	#2
redjay Top Contributor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ontario Posts: 6,982	Is it possible to bypass the ignition switch and take the switch out of the equation just to confirm the issue is with the switch and not something else ? I seem to remember other forum members have had issues with the ignition switch.
	1

03-29-2023, 02:43 PM	#3
bladenbullet Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Southwestern Florida Posts: 115	I just finished disassembling and cleaning the switch. It isn't exactly rebuild friendly and little detent balls can be a bitch to get back where they belong blind but i cleaned up the contact pad (a little gray and some tracks on it-it sanded very smooth) and ran it through some checks. I'll find out more on my ride home.
	0

03-29-2023, 06:22 PM	#7
bladenbullet Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Southwestern Florida Posts: 115	I greatly appreciate the feedback from everyone...this place has some great experience with these bikes and i knew there would be some good ideas flying around... like i tell my students...intermittents can be a nightmare...if it dies altogether i can tell you why...when it dangles an occasional carrot youre in for a head scratcher until you put the puzzle together one piece at a time... i keep looking at those stator covers wondering but it hasnt brought any possibilities to mind yet...i am a stickler for going back to where i worked and looking for something i may have missed....i just dont see it in there...
	0

04-01-2023, 02:32 PM	#12
plumber63 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 996	they are on the brake side, forward and below battery area. I think you are probably on the right track with the ignition switch being the issue. __________________ Troy Donat VBA #02401 2015 Voyager 2006 1600 Nomad black(sold) 2016 Salem, Antlers, 2017 Eureka Springs, Lake George, Antlers 2018 Custer NR, Antlers
	1

04-09-2023, 05:06 PM	#13
bladenbullet Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Southwestern Florida Posts: 115	Waiting for parts...I pulled the stator cover and outer stator off just to get a peek back in there to make sure I didn't miss anything...I've pulled the terminals out of every connector I could find and tightened connections...unless I've got a dfi relay or something hidden somewhere I'm betting on the b ignition switch...there isn't much else that can kill the whole bike...I'll let you know when I figure it out...if I do...lol. .
	1

04-10-2023, 12:00 PM	#14
Kybenz Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Wilder, Ky Posts: 188	On my '05 1600 there is a ground junction under the seat where all the grounds come together in a plastic connecter that is taped over. On mine this was a failure point causing multiple electrical gremlins. __________________ 2005 1600 Classic, V&H Bigshots, Chucksters' Air kit Cobra Fi2000r ,Fire & Steel light bar,Cobra freeway bars, Kuryakyn highway pegs,Kuryakyn pedal covers,Barons 7 LED tachometer, Chucksters' 2" risers, Kuryakyn RTB controller, Kuryakyn grips, heel and toe covers. Galfer S.S. braided lines. Last edited by Kybenz; 04-19-2023 at 01:28 PM.
	2

04-18-2023, 10:48 PM	#15
CMQ Jr. Member Join Date: Apr 2023 Location: CenCal Posts: 1	The Nomad is well known to have a weak key switch, and the things have a tendency to melt internally if you try to run accessory lights off of the same circuit without a relay. Bypassing the key switch should prove/disprove this. My 2004 nomad has never had this happen in 19 years and 40,000 miles. However I have had the kickstand switch shut the bike off several times on a bump, because the bolt that holds the kickstand has a tendency to vibrate loose. Last edited by CMQ; 04-18-2023 at 10:52 PM.
	0