Scraping metal?

[Tiger J]

I am a new rider with one earnest riding year under my belt. I have been working on my lines and turn technique in the twisty-bits of road because I tend to be too slow on the twisties to ride with groups.

I am always reading posts from my riding club about where the next ride is and "get ready to scrape some metal" blah blah... My qustion: Should any rider really be scraping metal on leans/turns, or is that a bunch of macho BS? Seems to me that if you have to scrape your floorboards then you must be going too fast for the curve. What do the experienced riders say?

[ringadingh]

I don't go out looking to scrape my boards intentionally. but it does happen time to time.
As you become comfortable and used to the bike taking tighter corners becomes easier to do.

[Rotorboy]

When practicing slow speed maneuvering, I scrape the floor boards all the time. On the road i scrape them from time to time, but mostly try to avoid it. Practicing low speed maneuvers is a good thing, and when you do touch the boards at higher speeds, it won't scare the begezzes out of you.

[markclark57]

Scrapes happen, but it's not something that I personally do on purpose. A difference in riding technique can cause one rider on the same model bike to scrape while another doesn't at the same speed. If you listen/watch close to motorcycle drill teams, they scrape frequently and are among the best riders anywhere. Even so, most of the folks I trust enough to ride close to try to stay off their boards.

[Jared]

I feel that it is an important skill to have for safety purposes.

Here's a good article written by James R. Davis

"Most of us do not need to test limits, but it still happens that you might someday find yourself leaning too far into a curve and hearing/feeling your peg start to drag. What should you do about it?

Well, let me start by telling you what most people, I believe, instinctively try and what is dead wrong! They immediately roll off the accelerator and lean away from the dragging peg. These are BOTH wrong things to do because each action either lowers the bike (rolling off the accelerator) or increases the lean angle and as a result the peg will no longer be gently scraping the asphalt but will try to gouge a trough into it.

There are three things that can be done as soon as you hear/feel a peg scrape:

Increase throttle - (but note that you are already close to sliding and ANY increase in speed can be all she wrote). This is a VERY DANGEROUS solution and it relies on the fact that acceleration raises the middle of the bike while at the same time INCREASES its lean angle. At best, a momentary and trivial net gain in peg height.


Counter-steer away from the dragging peg - (widen the turn)


Shift body weight towards the dragging peg - (that is not a misprint)

Each of these actions tends to straighten the bike up. Any one of them will 'cure' the problem and is sufficient by itself. You can, of course, do two or all three of these things at the same time.

(The use of throttle to increase clearance is a VERY SHORT TERM GAIN and is quickly followed by the dragging part digging harder as the lean angle overwhelms the modest new height clearance.

Use of the throttle makes most sense, of course, at very slow speeds. At higher speeds it is by far the hardest technique to master in reacting to a dragging component and though I indicated it could 'cure' the problem all by itself, it actually REQUIRES that you simultaneously counter-steer a wider path.)

Note, however, that doing the wrong things, it seems to me, is instinctive and that you need to mentally prepare to do the right things in advance. But that is exactly why you are reading this tip - to determine what experience has shown others is the right thing to do without having to 'discover' by trial and potentially fatal error for yourself.
Let's see if this makes that third alternative clearer as it is your best choice. Here is a diagram that on the left shows a motorcycle that is about to drag a peg in a turn and on the right it shows what happens if the motorcyclist leans INTO the turn. (It lifts the peg off the ground.)"

[AlabamaNomadRider]

Not too sure I agree with everything he says in the article. Seems to me if you lean more toward the peg or floorboard that scrapes it will lean more that way. I have watched enough of the racing bikes to determine that.

I would say if it happens, and it does, then maintain your speed or ease up on the throttle. Easing up on the throttle should raise the bike some.

I always try to slow up enough when I see a sharp curve that it doesn't happen. Ride at a speed that is safe for the conditions. If you are on unfamiliar roads and there are curves keep your bike at a safe speed.

[Kedosto]

Scraping the low hanging parts happens from time to time, but it sounds to me like you're hearing the mostly BS, macho bravado type of stuff commonly heard during group rides.

Utah's info is spot on, and is demonstrated by skilled sport bike riders every day. The techniques transfer to cruisers, but with slightly less elegance or effectiveness. Understanding the principles is important.

I feel compelled to advise that you tread carefully in group riding situations considering your skill level. You stated that you're "too slow to ride with groups," and while it's good that you're aware of your limitations, you're also at a very vulnerable stage in your riding skill development. Always 'ride your own ride' and never fall for peer pressure that can get you in trouble.

Scraping the boards is just something that happens. Shortly after getting my Nomad, I rode hard trying to get a feel for the bike's limits and scraped a lot of metal. I mostly try to avoid it now. I'm comfortable with the lean limits the bike offers and try to operate within the limits.

Good luck. You're asking the right kind of question. The kind a careful, sensible person would ask.

[VulcanE]

The Nomad is not a crotch rocket, so it won't take corners like one. That being said, dragging the floorboards on a Nomad is something that happens quiet frequently with me. Dragging the boards is getting close to the limit of the lean on a Nomad, but the board is "spring loaded" (so it will raise up when hitting the asphalt) and has replaceable wear pads on the bottom (these are actually what comes in contact with the road). Dragging boards lets you know your getting close to the limit (but haven't gotten there yet), when you start dragging hard parts is when you have to start worrying.
The number one thing though is to stay within your limits and experience, as you confidence and experience grows (and it will), you'll keep getting a little bolder.

I also wanted to say that riding in groups is a lot of fun, and beneficial. You can see how other riders with similar bikes takes a line thru a corner and hold it. You can pick up some good habits by watching others, but on the flip side, you can pick up some bad habits, also, just be careful which habits you pick up. While riding in groups, just pay particular attention to the other riders around you, and keep a safe distance between you and the rider in front of you, and keep in your mind, you may (for one reason or another) have to reign it in quickly.

[Loafer]

If you want to ride with the group, find out the ride route, ride at the tail and go your
speed. Catch up at rest stops or food stops. Don't get sucked in to riding beyond your
capability. I bet I haven't scraped metal in at least 10 years.

[markclark57]

Originally Posted by Utah Motorcyclist

I feel that it is an important skill to have for safety purposes.

Here's a good article written by James R. Davis

"Most of us do not need to test limits, but it still happens that you might someday find yourself leaning too far into a curve and hearing/feeling your peg start to drag. What should you do about it?

Well, let me start by telling you what most people, I believe, instinctively try and what is dead wrong! They immediately roll off the accelerator and lean away from the dragging peg. These are BOTH wrong things to do because each action either lowers the bike (rolling off the accelerator) or increases the lean angle and as a result the peg will no longer be gently scraping the asphalt but will try to gouge a trough into it.

There are three things that can be done as soon as you hear/feel a peg scrape:

Increase throttle - (but note that you are already close to sliding and ANY increase in speed can be all she wrote). This is a VERY DANGEROUS solution and it relies on the fact that acceleration raises the middle of the bike while at the same time INCREASES its lean angle. At best, a momentary and trivial net gain in peg height.


Counter-steer away from the dragging peg - (widen the turn)


Shift body weight towards the dragging peg - (that is not a misprint)

Each of these actions tends to straighten the bike up. Any one of them will 'cure' the problem and is sufficient by itself. You can, of course, do two or all three of these things at the same time.

(The use of throttle to increase clearance is a VERY SHORT TERM GAIN and is quickly followed by the dragging part digging harder as the lean angle overwhelms the modest new height clearance.

Use of the throttle makes most sense, of course, at very slow speeds. At higher speeds it is by far the hardest technique to master in reacting to a dragging component and though I indicated it could 'cure' the problem all by itself, it actually REQUIRES that you simultaneously counter-steer a wider path.)

Note, however, that doing the wrong things, it seems to me, is instinctive and that you need to mentally prepare to do the right things in advance. But that is exactly why you are reading this tip - to determine what experience has shown others is the right thing to do without having to 'discover' by trial and potentially fatal error for yourself.
Let's see if this makes that third alternative clearer as it is your best choice. Here is a diagram that on the left shows a motorcycle that is about to drag a peg in a turn and on the right it shows what happens if the motorcyclist leans INTO the turn. (It lifts the peg off the ground.)"

+1 what Jared said. If there is a Motorcycle Safety Foundation class available in your area, I highly recommend it.

[Tiger J]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I rode as a teenager on a Honda V45 Magna and a Suzuki Intruder 800 back in the FL panhandle, but never rode long distances or with a group. I sold the ole Intruder in college and, other than sporadically riding around the block on a friend's or relative's bike, I never rode again til last year and I am about to turn forty!

I did take the MSF course to get my endorsement... however, the MSF course was on a parking lot course and we used 250cc Honda Rebels which have little in common with the Nomad! I did fine with the MSF course.

The all-brand r/c that I rode with last year here in St. Louis area is a good bunch of folks... but I can attest that they do disregard rural speed limits with some degree of frequency which I believe is unfair for a AMA-chartered club that actively seeks new riders to join. I have not ridden with them or any other group this year and have been a true "nomad" thusfar this season! I am practicing my lines and turns and I am pretty comfortable taking curves at the posted speed limits for the curves... but, again, the groups seem to make a point of blasting through them! I am just not yet comfortable enough to lean the bike so hard as to scrape the floorboards and I tend to ride within speed limits except a little over on the long highways.

I do want to reach a level where I can go on group rides and not have to worry that I will not be able to keep up or that I will cause the "slinky-coil" effect in the group. I would like to be able to make trips to VBA rallies etc. At the moment, I have no problems with the long rides and road trips... I just have the premonition that I will be a drag to the rest of the group riders I am with!

[markclark57]

Find a couple of friends that ride group and practice with them... Also, most of the VBA rides aren't aggressive on the skills level unless there is a "break away" group for that purpose.

[blowndodge]

Originally Posted by Loafer

I bet I haven't scraped metal in at least 10 years.

I know there's a joke in there somewhere but I'll be danged if I can find it!

[Loafer]

Originally Posted by blowndodge

I know there's a joke in there somewhere but I'll be danged if I can find it!

That girl is softening your brain, you need to hang with Dave more.

[Netnorske]

Originally Posted by Loafer

If you want to ride with the group, find out the ride route, ride at the tail and go your
speed. Catch up at rest stops or food stops. Don't get sucked in to riding beyond your
capability. I bet I haven't scraped metal in at least 10 years.

I gotta agree with Gerry on this one....never ride over your skis...that's just . The idea is to safely get where you are going and enjoy the ride along the way. Ride your ride and if the group you are in is making you feel uncomfortable....catch up to them when they stop. Trying to keep up when you feel your skills are inadequate makes it unsafe not just for you, but for everyone in the group. Nobody will think less of you for doing so, and will respect your desire to ride safely.

"I bet I haven't scraped metal in at least 10 years...."

BD.....I got this....

"I'll bet you haven't seen your pecker without it being hard in at least that long too"....!!