Battery Life + more

[schoeney]

Weather has been perfect for riding (70-80) out here. Hope everyone is enjoying the "season".

I have a couple questions regarding Nomad batteries.

I have the OEM battery which is now 5 years old (I have a 2003 1500). Works fine and seems to be in great condition (only 5k miles...2500 in last 3 months)
all electrical and starting are fine (did I jinx myself?).

Is there a way to tell when it will start going bad? Should I replace it w/OEM? What is a reasonable price?

Thanks

[waterman]

Schoeney,

You can never tell when a battery is going to go. At least most of the time. Generally they just go. Sometimes they will drag when starting. Most of the time I just replace on a time interval. Four years for the bike is generally good enough. At current prices that is just $25 per year.

My Yuasa went almost 5 years and over 30,000 miles of mostly short trips. (10 miles and less.)

I replaced it with an identical battery.

The Nomad uses a unique size of battery, so you don't have many choices.

[cactusjack]

My Yuasa went almost 5 years and over 30,000 miles of mostly short trips. (10 miles and less.)

I replaced it with an identical battery.

The Nomad uses a unique size of battery, so you don't have many choices.

Which further proves my "*" asterisk theory. Everything I buy is always the asterisk in the parts books.

Example: Part #1234xyz - fits Kawasaki Vulcan (all years) *

Footnote: * = except 1600 Nomad

It's the story of my life.

[blowndodge]

Thats quite a large opening you left for me Scott!!!

Scott's asterisk before prison ( * )

Scott's asterisk after prison ( @ )

It's the story of his life !!! http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[scion0]

Thats quite a large opening you left for me Scott!!!

Scott's asterisk before prison ( * )

Scott's asterisk after prison ( @ )

It's the story of his life !!! http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif


http://s2.images.proboards.com/shocked.gif http://s2.images.proboards.com/shocked.gif :'( http://s2.images.proboards.com/shocked.gif http://s2.images.proboards.com/shocked.gif

[trip]

Having just gone through this........let me say that I'm a firm believer in replacing a motorcycle battery every 3 years. It's hard to tell when a battery is going to go and once it's dead....it's dead.

The battery that comes stock in the Nomad is a FTX-16 battery made by Yuasa. It's a 12volt/16amp battery. Most local battery shops will sell you an equivalent except the amperage is probably going to be a little lower than 16amp, which is not what you need for the Nomad.

Get a replacement battery that is at least 16amp or 18amp. I found a good, decent priced battery at http://www.batterymart.com/p-YTX20CH-BS-AGM-Maintenance-Free-Battery.html

The MotoCross battery is made by Yuasa and is 12volt/18amp. And, like it says on the website, it's maintenance-free and comes shipped to you ready to install.

Take it from someone that's been there....don't wait until your in the middle of Arizona for your battery to decide it doesn't like you anymore. Replace it every 3 years.

[rksaw]

Good Advice...maybe I'll take a look at my battery tonight and try to figure out how long it's been on the bike.

[ells]

The OEM in my VN800B lasted 9 years, just replaced this summer. It was just getting a little weak, but I could push start it when it failed, the one time I left the key on. Replaced it with an identical one. I don't understand it, last few batteries in other vehicles just up and died suddenly in less than their rated life. I think the three to four year replacement on a tourer is a good idea, won't be push-starting the Nomad.

[chainsaw]

I like to take a marker and put the date on the battery so I can remember when it was changed. I like to do the three year change also. When I am not riding for awhile I also like to keep a trickle charger hooked up to keep the battery fully charged.

[schoeney]

Thanks for the input everyone. I will start shopping!

[dogdoc]

if you guys own a multi-meter you can test your battery in non running mode(should get about 12-12.5 Volts) and in running mode(should get about 14-14.5 Volts) on a good battery. Do this when you have the seat off and cleaning and just takes minutes. if lower than these values your battery might need replacing. This way you don't have to just replace a battery because it might go out on you. And might just get 5+ yrs out of yours. :-)

[Top Cat]

Good advice Doc.
Even though I don't take the seat off to clean. Nobody can see under there anyway. http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[VulcanE]

if you guys own a multi-meter you can test your battery in non running mode(should get about 12-12.5 Volts) and in running mode(should get about 14-14.5 Volts) on a good battery. Do this when you have the seat off and cleaning and just takes minutes. if lower than these values your battery might need replacing. This way you don't have to just replace a battery because it might go out on you. And might just get 5+ yrs out of yours. :-)

Thanks Doc,that's good advice, that had never occurred to me, Next time I have the seat off, I'll give it a quick check. ;)

[cheriann]

I can't offer any advice on when you should replace your battery, but I can confirm that you never know when it will go on you!!!

Last year I was riding a Suzuki Intruder 800 and on a big Kawasaki forum group ride in PA, my bike just died WHILE STILL MOVING on a sloped mountain road! http://s2.images.proboards.com/shocked.gif I coasted to the side of the road and that was it, battery was dead, dead, dead!!! I never had ANY warnings beforehand that it was going bad. A few EXTREMELY nice guys in our group ran ahead to the next town to buy me a new battery!!! After that experience, I will replace my battery every few years!!!! ;)

Here's a picture from that day....as you can see, it DID have a few nice fringe benefits!!! I had several guys trying to take care of my bike for me!!! http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y298/CheriKarp/Bike%20Rides/PA%20Forum%20Ride/100_9393.jpg

Motorcycle batteries seem more prone to give up quickly than car batteries.With our computer controlled F/I and electronic igniton the votltage has to be within strict tolerances for those to function properly. I think I would go ahead and spend the $100 or so for a new battery.

[schoeney]

The seat comes off?? http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

LOL,yes it does. The rear has to come off first.

[michiganmike]

CheriAnn,

My wife has a Suzuki 800 and the second year we had it the battery went bad and I had to buy a new one. I do not remember the manufacturer, but I would suspect they put in cheap batteries.

I have 4 1/2 years and 27,000 miles on my Nomad and the battery is still going strong. I live in Michigan and I leave my battery in year round and no not put a battery charger on it, but I do start it once a week in the winter if I am not able to ride it.

If I lived out west in all that heat I would probably change my battery every 3 or 4 years, but a good quality battery should last 5 years in Michigan from my 37 years of owning motorcycles.

[cheriann]

CheriAnn,

My wife has a Suzuki 800 and the second year we had it the battery went bad and I had to buy a new one. I do not remember the manufacturer, but I would suspect they put in cheap batteries.

I have 4 1/2 years and 27,000 miles on my Nomad and the battery is still going strong. I live in Michigan and I leave my battery in year round and no not put a battery charger on it, but I do start it once a week in the winter if I am not able to ride it.

If I lived out west in all that heat I would probably change my battery every 3 or 4 years, but a good quality battery should last 5 years in Michigan from my 37 years of owning motorcycles.

WHEW! Thanks for letting me know! I thought most batteries suddenly went like that...must be a Suzuki thing! ;)

Like you, I never take the battery out in the winter or use a battery charger. I started it once a week. However, I recently learned that idling doesn't charge a battery http://s2.images.proboards.com/shocked.gif I'm told that it has to be moving at least 2-3k rpms to get it charging, and that 25 miles at highway speeds is better. Is that true?

[macmac]

I wait for the end... Now I run a auto charger any time the bike is parked, and since I work at home the bike is parked somewhat more than I like.

When the battery acts up, and I know some years are on it, I first attempt to charge it.

Then I take a reading which is a faulse reading since the battery came off a charger, and that reading is not real.

With the current Skumaker auto charger that reading is going to be 13.30 dcv. That is what the charger puts out, at 1.5 amps.

With a ride somewhere and parking the bike the reading becomes real, and on my bike now 06 nad, it is about 12.75 dcv.

The next reading that matters is a load test, and there is such a tester for cars, but I am not aware of one for bikes. Maybe the one for cars will work on bikes, but I have my doubts.

We have 18 amp hour batterys and cars have like 1,000 cold cranking amp batteries, which is a very big difference.

So I use the starter motor on the bike as the test tool. Thats easy, I simply pop off the plugs so the bike can't start and crank the engine over for 10 seconds on a watch.

At the same time I hook up a voltmeter at the battery direct.

If I see the voltage read under 10 dcv in that time I know the battery is getting tired. If the reading is below that 10dcv faster than 10 seconds I know the battery is on borrowed time.

Using a battery that reads lower that 10dcv in less than 10 seconds is putting the rest of the charging system into over time labor and you can fry the whole system since a bad battery will not take and hold a charge..

The charging system will cook itself to death trying to feed a bottomless pit.

But I don't just guess my battery should be replaced either. I know it is, or it isn't in need of replacing.

There can be a very few exceptions. You can buy a brand new defective battery, you can install and battery that is internally defective and will shake itself apart internally with vibrations.

You can kill a new battery just by not using it, or storing it on a auto charger. Any bike battery pretty much not in use a day will loose 10% of the charge. In about 90 days that new on the shelf battery is junk if left this way. No better than a boat anchor.

[hayan1947]

Sir,One of the first things that I put on my bike was a Kuryakyn LED Battery Guage....this gadget monitors the condition of your battery...get one!You will not be sorry!..Regards Hayan1947 PS cost about $40.00

[michiganmike]

CheriAnn,

Running a bike at idle will charge the battery. I am embarrassed to say that today I left my key on and the forgot about it for over two hours while I had dinner with my mother and then took her shopping. The battery would not start the bike when I got back to her house. I jumped it and got it started and let it idle for about 1/2 hour. I had no problem starting it two hours later when I went home.

[cheriann]

CheriAnn,

Running a bike at idle will charge the battery. I am embarrassed to say that today I left my key on and the forgot about it for over two hours while I had dinner with my mother and then took her shopping. The battery would not start the bike when I got back to her house. I jumped it and got it started and let it idle for about 1/2 hour. I had no problem starting it two hours later when I went home.

Thanks Mike! I really was told by a person that works on bikes (although part time) that they don't charge at idle :(

[ells]

CA, That was true when bikes had generators instead of alternators. The change over to alternators in cars occurred, well let's see if I can remember, mid 60's I seem to recall, or maybe somebody told me, yes that's it, so I was told. Bikes probably came later so depending what bikes you friend was talking about, he might have been correct, but not for yours.

[trip]

CheriAnn , et al,
Now I'm not a battery expert. My experience with motorcycle batteries comes from years of trip riding and living in the warm South.

I have always been told that just idling your bike will not charge your battery to it's fullest. If you run your battery down totally, at some point you will need to charge it back up. I believe our motorcycles are like cars, in that the alternator and battery share everything. When the alternator is being taxed, it looks to the battery for help. When the electrical load decreases on an alternator, then the battery is charged. During the winter months, I hook my battery up to a battery tender. I don't have to take my seat off, I have the wiring already run into my left side compartment for easy hookup.

I take many trips during the year and after having a battery go out on me in the middle of a long trip (in the middle of nowhere), I heeded the warning and buy a new battery every 3-4 years, because you never really know when that battery is going to fail.

Some may think it's a waste of money, but when you're stuck somewhere having to pay twice as much for a battery and having to pay for someone to bring it out to you, suddenly spending 25.00 bucks a year average for a battery is not so bad. To me, it's just the price of riding a motorcycle. You can skimp, but somewhere down the line, you're going to get bit.

Trip

[scion0]

+1 Trip

I would think of all the times I learned the hard way that saving a few bucks here only to pay some major bucks there (later) that is would sink in... but once in a while I still find that my wallet tends to disagree with me.

[macmac]

The Nomad will charge at idle, but a great deal of current bikes will not! I am not sure about the 900 vulcan. The Nomad has 2 alternators and 2 rectifer regulators as well, and I know of no other bike that does. I suspect the Meanie does and the VK 2000 does, but no others i would know of do.

I am not sure if the 900 has 2 of each either.. The other bike that can charge at idle is a BMW with a belt driven alternator.

There are more bikes that will not charge at idle, than there are as exceptions to the rule.

[ells]

I stand corrected then. Guess it would depend on alternator output vs minimum load. As far as I know, all cars with alternators charge at idle with minimum load. Perhaps with the headlight on and the other default stuff some (many) bikes don't have the capacity. Never actually checked my 800B, but its OEM battery did last 9 years, which isn't really related to whether or not it charged at idle. However, I do agree with the 3 - 4 year change-out whether it needs or not. Just wasn't riding the 800 where getting stranded was too much of a problem and could push start it.

[trip]

The Nomad will charge at idle, but a great deal of current bikes will not! I am not sure about the 900 vulcan. The Nomad has 2 alternators and 2 rectifer regulators as well, and I know of no other bike that does. I suspect the Meanie does and the VK 2000 does, but no others i would know of do.

I am not sure if the 900 has 2 of each either.. The other bike that can charge at idle is a BMW with a belt driven alternator.

There are more bikes that will not charge at idle, than there are as exceptions to the rule.

That's because Kawasaki built the electrical system on the Nomad to handle extra lighting, trailers, etc.

But, I still contend that a full charge at idle may not happen....here's why:

During the winter, I use a battery tender. It has indicators telling me when the battery is fully charged. I have charged my battery to capacity before.....started my Nomad, let it idle until the heat fan comes on.....shut it off and placed it on the battery tender again. It always shows that the battery needs a slight charge.

I have front bar lights installed, which may be the reason why I'm not getting a full charge at idle.

[ells]

Hence, we need amp meters and volt meters. And, CheriAnn has one more reason she needs a Nomad, not that she needed any more...

[trip]

Hence, we need amp meters and volt meters. And, CheriAnn has one more reason she needs a Nomad, not that she needed any more...

Here...here!

[waterman]

CA, That was true when bikes had generators instead of alternators. The change over to alternators in cars occurred, well let's see if I can remember, mid 60's I seem to recall, or maybe somebody told me, yes that's it, so I was told. Bikes probably came later so depending what bikes you friend was talking about, he might have been correct, but not for yours.

Ells, I think you mentioned that you remember the days of hand crank starting your cars?? http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[waterman]

Most alternator systems max out their output somewhere around 2000 rpm. What you gain is relatively small after that. Running at idle you generally have 50 to 70 % of maximum output. Output is amperage or watts and not volts. That is the duty of the voltage regulator to convert the output of the alternator to about 13 V.

Idling with nothing on will charge the system. Everything relates to how much of a draw you put on the system.

Trip, even after a long haul ride and I know it is going to be awhile before I ride and put the battery tender on, it will charge for a short time period. Generally less than 30 seconds.

[ells]

What's all this talk about the bikes setting around and idling - RIDE the damn thing like there is no tomorrow and there will be no problem, until the end of the battery's natural life of course.

Waterman - those were hand-propped airplanes, they existed much later than hand-crank cars! :)

[macmac]

Well I disagree with Waterman respectfully, mainly the rpm range he stated is a bit low, but i would agree about 3,000 rpm is closing in on the upper limits.

The main thing is most alts and this counts cars must run at 2,800 rpm to just turn on.

This is easy on cars as most cars drive alts with a belt. The crank pully is about 3 times or more larger in diamter than the alt pully, and so at 800 engine rpm the alt is already 3 times faster and so ON.

Most bikes have a crank mounted alt less BMW which is belt driven, and so the alt runs 1:1 with the crank shaft.

Charging is regulated by what is turned on, lamps, coils, fuel pump, and battery condition at the time, plus wear and tear.

At the time means charging will be higher from a cold start, because a cold start has the most friction to over come with thicker oil conditions. That batter has just put out apx 360 amps in 2 or 3 seconds, while at the same time has powered up the ecu and related sencors, the coil the loss in the wiring, relays, and the above stated items.

On a volt meter you can see as normal as high as 15.2 volts sometimes.

Battery condition as wear and tear figures into any reading you can see in volts. A 6 year old battery may be worn and may not be able to hold the load of a battery less than 1 year old.

By 8 years most nomad batterys will be about used up and you can see these probably charge on a running engine at 15.+ all the time. When a battery that old and used up is on a bike and the bike is shut off, the bike might not start again, even though you saw 15.+ dcv as a reading.

A battery must be able to hold the charge and take a load to be of any use. You can charge a dead battery for so long as the alt will run and till it burns out trying to charge a dead battery.

I have seen charging sysyems fail an be all burned out, the alt is dead and the rec/reg is dead and for no other reason than it was used with a battery that would not take and hold a charge much less any load.

Volts is just one part of what is to be known, Amps is the other. With a volt meter and a Nomad after a cold start you will likely see 14.8dcv as soon as the engine runs.. If you had a Amp meter too, you might see 10 amps charging, maybe more.

Both readings will reduce if the battery is good, and has life. This depends on loads and the battery condition.

After riding and still at say 65 mph for over 1 hour, with only stock items on, a voltmetere might read 13.6 and up on a Nomad. If it had a amp meter it might well read 2 amp charge, as the alt creates the same charge, and the rec/reg waste the charge as heat, since th battery has all it wants, and only replaces a little the ecu, related items, lamps, pump, and etc need to run.

Other bikes will act this way, but are not near to what the charging system a Nomad has.

Other bikes which is most of them can and will run a battery down to not start with 1 hours worth of parking lot practice, typical of MSF course riding. The engine rpm isn't there enough and the bike IS running directly off the battery. Still a volt meter might read 13.5 or so, but that doesn't say a thing about amps..

I have another bike and it has a alternator. It will not run hi beam at 110 watts, and (2) passing lamps rated at 35 watts each sitting at a red light idling.

It has a like battery 18 Ah. That is 18 amp hours. In theory that means a good battery will run 1 amp 18 hours. It means it will run 18 amps 1 hour. It means it will blow out 360+ amps for a few moments in time, to turn on all the devices and still crank the start motor.

A car on the other hand has a battery rated to 650 cold cranking amps or more. All mine have 1,000 cca.

With out looking in the book I think ther Nomad has a Alt that max;s out at 30 amps... My old bike makes 20 amps max..

It is a rare day in the green grass where any alt makes max amps, and is a theory to engineers.

I deal in the real world and fix these things.. All of them.. with and with out brushes. I did it as a mechanic for nearly 30 years and I still do it now for myself and friends.. I think I have a good fix it rate as i haven't failed to fix on so long as i could get parts..

These days it is harder to get common parts like diode bridges and other parts used in alt and starters because i guess no one fixes them anymore. I needed bearings for the 65 amp alt on my old chevy 4x4. It was 27 bucks for them, and 17 for a new alt.. There was no question getting a new factory re-built alt was the way to go, but it was note worthy to find the bearings, the diode bridge, and brushes would have to be ordered!

I run a battery tender like charger called Shumaker. it has less bling as visable features than the Battery tender, but other wise is a auto charger. I use this any time I am not riding less the cooling off I allow parked so I don't burn my dainty fingers.

My bike off, the volt readings varry some depending on how fast I shut off the passin lamps which can be on any time I like engine or no engine, so I use a varable amount of amps, getting off, getting stuff out of the bags and getting my act together.

Most reading once everything is off are about 12.75 dcv. My battery is in good shape, and I might see reading with the lamps on which are 55 watts each, but no engine on as 11 dcv and even less if I take 20 minutes to set up a amp site after dark.

Since the battery is pretty good it will recover all by it self in time, so I can safely run the lamps to the point I can't start the bike that night, but it will recover and start by morning.

At home if I run the battery down that same way, when I hook up the charger I can see 13.30 instanly on the meter, because the charger makes 13.30 at 1.5 amps. and that's all this charger can do.

My old bike with just more or less stock lamps will run fine at idle, but hit the 35 watts lamps an it acts as if it is running out of gas. More over if these lamps are on the meter says it won't recover, with just rpm and I flip the switch off and it recovers to charge and i can use the lamps to the next red light. it would be easy to ride so slow as to drain the battery so the bike won't start untill long hours pasts and th battery had time to recover.

[macmac]

I am betting not mny will read that bit, and so going to the next step in the conversation would be a waste of time on my part.

That would be the field wire and the 1/2 battery voltage it uses to induce the stator/armature to be as much as 6 times battery voltage and ACV. Alternating Current.

[rksaw]

And, CheriAnn has one more reason she needs a Nomad, not that she needed any more...

Reasons for getting a Nomad: 281
Reasons against getting a Nomad: 0
Riding a Nomad: Priceless

[rksaw]

I am betting not many will read that bit...

Sorry Mac, but you're right. I saw that long post and didn't even attempt to read it. I'll probably replace my battery before the next riding season because I don't know how long it's been on the bike and I don't want to get stuck on the way to Custer in June.
Rich

[trip]

I am betting not many will read that bit...

Sorry Mac, but you're right. I saw that long post and didn't even attempt to read it. I'll probably replace my battery before the next riding season because I don't know how long it's been on the bike and I don't want to get stuck on the way to Custer in June.
Rich

There's a lot to say for peace of mind, Rich. Carry on my man.

[waterman]

MacMac,

On an alternator output I will agree that it does go higher than 13 v. Have seen 15 volts but generally not for very long after startup. However, output of a alternator starts at a much lower rpm for the alternator then you stated. Found some graphs on auto alternator output (amps) vs shaft rpm. Most start at 1000 shaft rpm. At a 1:3 driver:driven ratio, which is pretty close to my pickup ratio, the rpm at idle of 8-1000 rpm would be a 2400 to 3000 rpm shaft rpm. Looking at the output graphs for 5 delco alternators, they put out about 60 to 70% of maximum amps at that rpm. At cruising speed of 60 in my truck, my rpms are about 1800. This would put the shaft rpms at 4,500 to 5000 which is giving about 95% of maximum output. These are by the test graphs. Yes there is little information on motorcycles but I can't see them varying from the automotive standards by much. I talked to a automotive engineer friend about this and he claims that they want 90 to 95% of maximum output at 60 mph. Going from 5,000 to 8,000 shaft rpm, you gain only 3 maybe 4 amps on a 78 amp alternator.

I did find some info on a Harley Ultra Classic Electra Glide. At idle or 1000 rpm, the output is 380 watts. At 3000 rpm, the output is 578 watts. Peak output is 598 watts. Output at idle is 63% of peak and at 3000 it is 96% of peak. Not to far off of the auto alternators. Cruising speed for the harley is 2200 rpm at 60. I wouldn't think that it would be to far off the 3000 rpm output.

Looked thru my old Rider magazines and found the C-14 review. Max output was at 5,000 rpm but cruising speed (60) was at 3,200. They must have decided to find the ultimate maximum of that alternator.

As far as idle output, they want the watts to be enough to handle everything that is stock and still slowly charge the battery. Normally if I have a dead battery, I boost it and then take a 10 minute drive to charge it if I don't have a charger available.

[macmac]

Waterman a bike is mounted at 1:1 and the big Vulcans have 2 alts and 2 rec regs.. with 18 diodes instead of 6. Vulcans are not the typical bike. Having 2 is redundant to a degree, and HEAVY, but vulcans are heavy so a few more pounds won't bother it.

You better hope it puts out that 15.2 or so after a drain and a cold start, It will reduce the amount of demands soon with a good system to 14.8, and lower still as needed to high 13's.

So a big vulcan has twice the stator most bikes have. Go check out a high reving sport bike, and you will find at low rpm it doesn't make much and at idle less. Try a Honda 250 Rebel, which has a bad time making enough to idle if left at low MSF training speeds too long.

The field wire is reduced dcv to apx 1/2 battery volts so say with the key ON when the field wire become first on, and no more has changed.. the field wire will be 1/2 battery voltage.. Lets say the battery is good, and standing has 12.8 dcv. That means the field wire will be almost 1/2, but with voltage drop in the wire and at the connector, so it is safe to say it will not be a dead match 1/2 or 6.4 dcv. It will vary to something less. That might be 6.3 dcv.

Then you press Start, the engine cranks over and fires up, and instantly the field wire gets more current when everything is correct. At idle you may see 13.6 dcv.. which means the battery sees a charge, and allows 6.8 dcv to the field wire thru the regulator. Then you rev the engine and excite the alt, which in turn via the rec/reg converts ACV to the field as 7.4 dcv, and you see 14.8 dcv.

By now you are moving over 1,000 engine rpm which is exactly alt rpm on a Nomad. So both charging systems are at work.

Other kinds of bikes will not work like this so easy. These other bikes making max 20 amps, will not truely make 20 amps in most cases, as lots of things matter and add up to voltage drop. You may have noticed temps will be mentioned in graphs, and that hotter temps, as ambient air temp, and also wire temp makes a difference. The hotter a wire the harder it is for current to flow.

This is easy to see by feeling most any relay. It should be cool to the touch, but most often after time it will be warm, and can sometimes be out right hot, and after that too hot to hold in the hand. That is voltage drop, and caused from a high resistance.

There is a whole other side to the system in ACV (alternating current) which is tapped off at the diodes and sent to ground as heat.

I use acv in diagnostics as well as Ohms with these systems. The ac sides varry depending on the make of the alt, as this acv comes from the stator armature, and can be measured as acv, with the system on. The rate per pair of stator wires on a induced system with no brushes will varry with as many pairs of wires from the stator as the stator has.

A typical 6 wire stator will make 36 volts in each pair of wires, at alt speeds of 2,800 rpm. Cut out 1/2 because it is acv, and you get 18dcv. Regulate that and add in voltage drop, and you get very close to 14.8 dcv.

When the good battery has been recharged as much as it can be, it demands not much more to remain where it is to run everything there is ON, and the regulator shunts to ground and wastes the current, untill there is again more demand.

You are correct in that after a given alt rpm it doesn't do much to make more, and it can't do more because the field wire is regulated, and excess is sent to ground, where there is a heat sink to take that excess off and cool the rec/reg.

Most of my problem was related to, too low of a alt start up rpm. Other wise the rest was very good.

MacMac, I read all of your posts. If I have an electrical problem I will just rent a trailer, trailer out to New Hamster( Tamworth), if I can find it, with a bottle/12 pack of your favorite beverage.

[rksaw]

There's a lot to say for peace of mind, Rich. Carry on my man.

Definitely, I'm making a list of things that I have got to get done this winter...hopefully things will slow down here in about a month and I'll get to the battery and the final drive oil and put in some Iridium Spark Plugs and ... the list goes on. Great reading here and lots of great advice from people who definitely know what they are doing. I think it's time for a road trip to Cadd's and BD's and Mac's place...what do you think?

[macmac]

MacMac, I read all of your posts. If I have an electrical problem I will just rent a trailer, trailer out to New Hamster( Tamworth), if I can find it, with a bottle/12 pack of your favorite beverage.

Yer on.. Free camping in a nice field too. All woods around it, no traffic either. Some of the best ridin anywhere, and all scenic.

Wiring and electrical is boring for those who don't do it much. When it fails, it can be a nightmare. I did it to get paid, so for a long time it has been just another thing I do, and I seem to do it well.

[rksaw]

Sounds like you're good at it, but it's WAY over my head.

[macmac]

rksaw. I would prefer to sit about and cut 'Trade Silver', all day, but it won't earn enough.

If you never heard of it, don't feel bad, 99.99% of anyone hasn't got a clue as to what it was once.. But I make it anyway...

[rksaw]

I had never heard of it, but when I googled it, I found out how common it is in my native Arizona. So, you're a silver smith? You ought to post some pictures of your work. I'd be interested in seeing it.
Rich