Abs???

[scottFL]

At 50 years old I am finally going to get a motorcycle!!! I had originally thought I would be jumping on an HD but after much research, I believe a Voyager is in my future.

I found a really nice example with low miles but no ABS. The only riding experience I have is on an HD Street 500 when I took the training to get my endorsement. I had been thinking that I would only buy a Voyager with ABS, but now I'm wondering what you experienced riders would say. Do I hold out for the ABS, or go ahead and buy this non-ABS model? :hmm:

[plumber63]

I would suggest you ride one first. Any bike this large can be a lot to handle for someone with no experience. Quite a few find these to be to tall for them (you can lower them some with aftermarket parts), and top heavy. Hard to back up if you have limited ground reach, aka short legs.

I have a 1600 Nomad and a 1700 Voyager. Both are heavy, the 1600 sets lower. But the 1700 handles so much better.

As for the K-Act ABS I really like mine. It really make the braking so much quicker , smoother, and easier. Connecting the front and rear brakes together is a big part of it. https://www.kawasaki.ca/media/mig/2012/concours-14-abs/English/files/assets/downloads/page0007.pdf

But if you know how to properly use the brakes, Not sure its a deal breaker not having them.

[schoeney]

I would highly recommend taking the MSF course and practicing a lot in parking lots.

Big bikes real challenges are at slow speeds.

I don't see ABS vs. Non-abs being a big deal for a qualified rider.

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[Sabre-t]

I took the MSF course and got my MC endorsement at age 55 and got a Honda Sabre. 1100 CCs. That was a lot of bike to handle as a new rider, but certainly doable. A Voyager is a much bigger and heavier bike. Learning slow maneuvers on it would be very hard for a new rider. I love the Voyager, but I'm glad I learned on a smaller bike.

P.S. Can't speak to ABS. My Voyager does not have it and I have never ridden a bike with it.

[The Black Knight]

I would highly recommend taking the MSF course and practicing a lot in parking lots.

Big bikes real challenges are at slow speeds.

I don't see ABS vs. Non-abs being a big deal for a qualified rider.

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I agree with you :tup::tup::wave:

[scottFL]

Thanks for the replies. I did the MSF course through the HD dealer and realized then that I would need a touring bike to be comfortable. I did the course on a Street 500 and it felt like a mini bike, with myself being 6' 3" 370#.

When I do pull the trigger I will certainly spend a lot of time practicing, especially low speed maneuvers in empty parking lots.

In my daily checks of the used Voyager market I have blasted past the non-ABS models but have missed out on some great deals. I like the idea of the linked ABS brakes but I think I will check out bikes without the feature.

I've been lurking on the forum for a while and learning a lot. When I bring one home I'll let you all know.


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[schoeney]

ScottFL..The MSF course in my state offers the option of using course provided 250cc motorcycles to take the course.

Taking advantage of using a smaller bike might help in the transition to a larger bike.

Saying that, I will say I did take the msf course using my 2003 Nomad. I had taken a hiatus from street bikes for 20 years ( although I had always kept my hand in the dirt bike world).


I'm sure using the Nomad was more difficult than a 250cc, but I'm not sure I would have gone back and tried / practiced the same things on the Nomad if I had did the 250cc first.

Good luck in whatever you decide. Only you know yourself and know what you should really do to protect yourself and your family.



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[JD Hog]

My second HD Ultra Classic did have ABS and when I was looking to get back to riding again I would only look at ABS equipped bikes. The K-ACT system on the Voyager is great and well worth it.

When buying used you have to figure out if you want to only purchase a bike with ABS or another that doesn't have ABS but a great deal. I did have an '05 Nomad before my '15 Voyager. When I was looking to buy a new bike only ABS would satisfy me.

[Chuck A.]

…………... When I was looking to buy a new bike only ABS would satisfy me.

The K-ACT system has spoiled me. I love riding into a sharp curve, hammering on it, and not having the nose dive with the brakes. Feels planted to the asphalt.

As for starting out on a large/heavy bike just be sure you have strong legs. Chances are strong you will dump it on it side a couple of times at low speeds. The Voyager is top heavy and will get you when you lease expect it. When you do get use to it she's great.


For low speed parking lot practice you can cut tennis balls in half and lay then out in a pattern. Very forgiving if you run over then.

[redjay]

I was stopped in a gas station when my Voyager went over. I turned around to see if my son had finished filling up with gas. As I turned around the bike went over a few degrees and before I knew it the bike was heading for the floor and I couldn't stop it.
Luckily no damage was done, not a scratch. The crash bars did a great job.

[DaPreacha]

Check this site out. It is all about what you are talking about. His videos are excellent. Saw him at bike week demo all the techniques and he is good. I use many of the things I learned from the videos each day! http://www.vulcanbagger.com/forums/member.php?u=8205

P.S. You can probably find most of his stuff on YouTube for free!

[redjay]

The link is to a forum member ?

[smokier]

Thanks for the replies. I did the MSF course through the HD dealer and realized then that I would need a touring bike to be comfortable. I did the course on a Street 500 and it felt like a mini bike, with myself being 6' 3" 370#.



ABS is nice, especially for pulling things. Is it a must have?, no, not for regular riding.

We are just trying to look out for you - Sharing our MANY combined years of wisdom.
I have TAUGHT the MSF course, IMHO buy an inexpensive 900 ~ 1100 no frills cruiser. Just for the rest of this summer's riding season. Understand that a big bike may feel more comfortable. Tossing a 900lb Voyager (895) behemoth around is not a task to be taken lightly. A 600lb (634) V Star 1100 can be enough of a challenge at slow speeds or on poor surface conditions.
Later, buy the big cruiser, with bags and trunk towards the end of this season, or beginning of next. E.G. Please gets some miles and real world traffic experience on more a manageable machine. Consider this; driving a 900cc Vulcan will help you APPRECIATE the luxury of the 1700 Voyager. If you jump straight to the Cadillac, you won't know that's what it is...

I started with a KZ440G as my first street bike in '82. That bike and every increment of machine since then has taught me lessons. I'd be dead now if my first bike then had been the GL1100. (<-- I believe the biggest bike out at the time...)

Ride safe,
Smokier

[oldbeezer]

Tossing a 900lb Voyager (895) behemoth around is not a task to be taken lightly.

Quite the punner heh? :yep:

[smokier]

Quite the punner heh? :yep:

:D

:tup:

Ride safe,
Smokier

[ponch]

After having a bike with ABS, I wouldn't want one without it.

[cactusjack]

If you can buy a bike with ABS, then do it. You'll thank yourself later. I went from a 2007 (no ABS) to a 2011 HD Ultra Limited (with ABS). I'll never own another bike without it.


If my nomad had ABS, I'd probably still be riding it today. Unfortunately, I had a mishap and totaled it in 2011. I am firmly convinced ABS would have kept me from eating the asphalt at 45 MPH.

[andyvh1959]

Rather than rely only on ABS being a major choice for buying a bike, put more money into training. The MSF BRC is ONLY a beginner class, just enough info to get your license (I know this as a 25+ year MSF Rider Coach). The BRC is only the beginning of your riding and learning career. I have been riding for 45+ years and I am still learning and improving.

I strongly suggest you invest yourself into another rider course, like the MSF ARC (Advanced Rider Course), or any of the many advanced rider courses offered on closed track courses all over the country. Note, this does NOT have to be a racing class, but better still a rider course that focuses on cornering, braking, evasive skills and building situational awareness skills. Once you have built your skills sets, then adding ABS to the mix really makes you a more complete rider. Relying on ABS with only a BRC background really only keeps you at the BRC level of a rider.

I have seen many so called "experienced" riders of many years, with only marginal braking skills and capabilities. Sure, ABS "may" help those riders, but it is a band-aid aspect of really becoming an effective rider. Keep in mind too, that with the exception of very few high performance bikes with lean sensitive ABS systems (like KTM, BMW and a few others) all ABS systems are only bike stability systems that are only effective for straight up, straight line braking. Don't assume the ABS system on any Vulcan gives you the option to apply hard braking while leaned over or dramatically steering around an obstacle like can be done with a car. The basic function of any ABS system requires two things before ABS control engages: the brake on wheel has to applied hard, AND the wheel-tire HAS to actually begin sliding at 10% to 20% slower speed than the actual bike speed. When those both happen, THEN the ABS control takes over. But until then ABS does nothing but monitor wheel speed. This I learned when working with Bosch ABS engineers on heavy truck ABS systems. The same basic control principles apply to all ABS systems.

[MAS Tequila]

Andy is correct about the ABS.

Most people confuse ABS with linked brakes.

The linked brakes apply pressure to both front and rear once a certain amount of measured pressure is reached.

The linked system, in my experience, squats the bike down instead of allowing it to nose dive.

This significantly helps with stability once you've mastered it.

[mbarr10]

I have to say the linked brakes do take some getting used to. But the squat is nice, takes a lot of weight off the front without the nosedive.

[OldSchool]

ABS is becoming pretty much an industry standard for all manufacturers. Why ? Because ABS works. It makes the rider safer than he was before. Call it a band-aid if you must, but in my opinion any item that will truly keep a rider safer is worth having. NO-ONE can argue the point that in straight line wet stopping. A rider is safer than without it. That in itself would be well worth owning it. I have seen people walking around spewing ATGATT like it was one of the ten commandments and then argue that you don't really need ABS brakes. Don't have it now but if another cruiser in my future, she'll be having ABS. :cheers:

[recumbentbob]

I have ABS, had the bike since Feb, 2014. I ride in all sorts of weather and the ABS has never activated, but it's there if I need it.
I think I need to go to an empty parking lot and try them out just to see what it feels like.

[andyvh1959]

I agree, ABS is a valuable control capability on most cycles. But it is still better that any rider learns strong riding skills to which ABS is an aid rather than compensating for poor capabilities. The biggest part of learning the skills, especially situational awareness, is it helps you from riding into situations that require systems to save your butt.

The comments above about linked brakes are an example. We teach effective use of BOTH brakes to minimize fork dive and get the bike to just squat into the stop. I recently did a class where a student (on a big cruiser) asked "should I apply the rear brake first and then the front brake?" as an example of what some riders get as input from other experienced riders. I advise both brakes at the same time, progressively more on the front and less on the rear. The rear brake is mostly for tracking, dive reduction and chassis stability, the front does most of the work. I always use highway speed to clarify this. At 60mph you are traveling 88 feet per second. If your process is to apply the rear first and then the front you delay applying the front brake by up to 1/2 second. No big deal right? Until you consider that 1/2 second delay could be up to 44 feet longer stopping distance. Even at 1/4 second that could add 22 feet of stopping distance, well more than the length of most cars.

On big heavy bikes linked brakes are a real advantage and can significantly reduce the drama of effective high effort braking. Good braking skills means little or no drama. Unfortunately, the Vulcan 1500, 1600 don't feature any linked brakes or ABS. The 1700 features ABS, not sure about linked brakes. Even on a bike with linked brakes the rider needs to know how the bike reacts especially if trail braking is a skill to apply.

I also teach riders on ABS equipped bikes to actually and purposely activate the ABS to get familiar to how it feels, how it performs, how the RIDER performs. But also, if the ABS pump(s) are never activated those ABS circuits never circulate the brake fluid through them. Again, people think the ABS is always active during riding, but it is dormant until an ABS event is engaged. If the ABS is not purposely activated by the rider, the ABS pump does nothing, the ABS circuits are not moving fluid. The only active part of ABS during general riding is the wheel speed monitoring side, which is all electronic in function.

[mike07nad]

Greetings - Interesting conversation - As a Matter of Point. A K-ACT Voyager HAS Linked braking as well as ABS. A certain percentage is applied to the rear when the two front brakes are activated. Also, when just the rear brake is activated a certain percentage is applied to the left brake not both front brakes.

I've got over 120,000 Voyager miles which includes about 30,000 on an 2009 Non-ABS Voyager. I've had the ABS activate maybe twice, latest was last week riding in the rain when we something happened where 2 tractor trailers came to an abrupt stop right in front of us (I think they may have come together) Both the wife on her Spyder and I on my Voyager slammed the brakes at 55 MPH and I felt the ABS kick in. It squirreled for a split second then just slowed down to a near stop so I could navigate off the road to the right. We both instinctively bailed right so we were not sitting dead stopped in the middle of the road where traffic behind us was not stopped. (That is an example of Situational Awareness)

I agree with your comment on Getting a used 15/1600 or a 900 to just learn on for a year then bumping up to the Voyager. But all that said - If the original poster has already decided to purchase a Voyager I would recommend the one equipped with K-ACT (ABS and Linked).

To the original poster - it sounds like you are attempting to make informed/sound decisions. Listen to the the "Been there done that crowd" and ride safe - Wear protective gear. NO SHORTS and FLIP FLOPS (I have a bug about that!)

Ride Safe - Have fun.


I agree, ABS is a valuable control capability on most cycles. But it is still better that any rider learns strong riding skills to which ABS is an aid rather than compensating for poor capabilities. The biggest part of learning the skills, especially situational awareness, is it helps you from riding into situations that require systems to save your butt.

The comments above about linked brakes are an example. We teach effective use of BOTH brakes to minimize fork dive and get the bike to just squat into the stop. I recently did a class where a student (on a big cruiser) asked "should I apply the rear brake first and then the front brake?" as an example of what some riders get as input from other experienced riders. I advise both brakes at the same time, progressively more on the front and less on the rear. The rear brake is mostly for tracking, dive reduction and chassis stability, the front does most of the work. I always use highway speed to clarify this. At 60mph you are traveling 88 feet per second. If your process is to apply the rear first and then the front you delay applying the front brake by up to 1/2 second. No big deal right? Until you consider that 1/2 second delay could be up to 44 feet longer stopping distance. Even at 1/4 second that could add 22 feet of stopping distance, well more than the length of most cars.

On big heavy bikes linked brakes are a real advantage and can significantly reduce the drama of effective high effort braking. Good braking skills means little or no drama. Unfortunately, the Vulcan 1500, 1600 don't feature any linked brakes or ABS. The 1700 features ABS, not sure about linked brakes. Even on a bike with linked brakes the rider needs to know how the bike reacts especially if trail braking is a skill to apply.

I also teach riders on ABS equipped bikes to actually and purposely activate the ABS to get familiar to how it feels, how it performs, how the RIDER performs. But also, if the ABS pump(s) are never activated those ABS circuits never circulate the brake fluid through them. Again, people think the ABS is always active during riding, but it is dormant until an ABS event is engaged. If the ABS is not purposely activated by the rider, the ABS pump does nothing, the ABS circuits are not moving fluid. The only active part of ABS during general riding is the wheel speed monitoring side, which is all electronic in function.

[andyvh1959]

Shorts and flip flops,...HA! Few weeks back saw a guy on full dress Harley, newer one, riding in shorts and Crocs with white socks. Looked like a total doofus. Nothing "cool" about his Harley look. Now I also think the big cruiser crowd that goes through the effort of wearing boots, chaps/leather jeans, leather vest but no jacket or upper body protection, and especially no helmet are no less a doofus in my book. Clearly more concerned about the "look" than the prep for potential injury. Quite often too, these are the most vocal about their riding rights. Often too, these are the ones with the weakest riding capabilities and weak situational awareness, and loudest pipes.

My riding moto "no suprises." Huge part of that is to not ride myself into my own issues.