Question about 1700 and fork oil/progressive springsq

[Sabre-t]

I am going to change my fork oil this fall (and change to a tapered steering bearing, plus get Gary's fork brace).

Who (with a 1700) has used a higher weight fork oil (15W, 20W, or blended) with the OEM springs and at some point changed to progressive springs? Were the new springs really worth the cost or did the change in fork oil weight help nearly as much? What weight oil did you use with the progressives?

I have put higher weight fork oil in on another bike and it was like getting a new front end. Never used progressive springs, though.

Thankya, thankya vera much!

[redjay]

Why do you feel it necessary to change the springs ?

[Peg]

I changed the oil to 15W and put progressive springs in my 800, then did the same thing again (oil & springs) to my Nomad. Progressive springs improved both those bikes significantly. As a first step for the Voyager, I just changed out the oil both ends for 15W Belray.

A little down the track, and not entirely happy with just the oil change, I thought I'd seek some professional advice from a local bike shock shop (recognized as the industry leader in this country). I learned that apparently Progressively wound springs are a bit passé nowadays. Properly tuned emulators are where it's at in modern times.

So that's the route I took, and it's the only time since I've had this bike I've let someone else do any work on it... Race Tech springs and emulators up front, a set of Öhlins shocks down the back, and at around the same time Ivan's reflashed ECU in between them. It's like having a whole new bike at a fraction of whole new bike price, and the improvement in comfort & handling is far, far better than my own efforts on those previous bikes.

I thought (hoped) I might get away with just replacing the shocks, to begin with. But as soon as the Öhlins shocks went on there, they highlighted the short-comings in the front end badly. With the Race-Tech stuff in the forks, both ends match perfectly.

Garry's fork brace is the one thing left that I'd like to try, although it's hard to see how the handling could really be much improved over how it is now.

[Gypsy Dragon]

redjay- Because the suspension on these bikes, like most cruiser/tour bikes, sucks. I don't know how Kawasaki did it, but somehow they have designed and built a suspension that is bosh floppy and harsh.

[redjay]

I never found the forks on my Voyager to be floppy and harsh.
The forks on my Nomad were harsh, the Voyager was way better.

[Lumberjack]

Kinda like Brute by Faberge

redjay- I don't know how Kawasaki did it, but somehow they have designed and built a suspension that is bosh floppy and harsh.

[Johnny Y]

I asked the same question a few days ago on the 1700 page. The responses I got said to try a heaver oil first. Then decide if you need springs. I was looking at Traxxion or Race Tech. springs.

[Gypsy Dragon]

kinda like brute by faberge

haahahahaha!

[Sabre-t]

Why do you feel it necessary to change the springs ?

redjay- Because the suspension on these bikes, like most cruiser/tour bikes, sucks. I don't know how Kawasaki did it, but somehow they have designed and built a suspension that is bosh floppy and harsh.

What GD said.

I asked the same question a few days ago on the 1700 page. The responses I got said to try a heaver oil first. Then decide if you need springs. I was looking at Traxxion or Race Tech. springs.

Thanks!

[Sabre-t]

I changed the oil to 15W and put progressive springs in my 800, then did the same thing again (oil & springs) to my Nomad. Progressive springs improved both those bikes significantly. As a first step for the Voyager, I just changed out the oil both ends for 15W Belray.

A little down the track, and not entirely happy with just the oil change, I thought I'd seek some professional advice from a local bike shock shop (recognized as the industry leader in this country). I learned that apparently Progressively wound springs are a bit passé nowadays. Properly tuned emulators are where it's at in modern times.

So that's the route I took, and it's the only time since I've had this bike I've let someone else do any work on it... Race Tech springs and emulators up front, a set of Öhlins shocks down the back, and at around the same time Ivan's reflashed ECU in between them. It's like having a whole new bike at a fraction of whole new bike price, and the improvement in comfort & handling is far, far better than my own efforts on those previous bikes.

I thought (hoped) I might get away with just replacing the shocks, to begin with. But as soon as the Öhlins shocks went on there, they highlighted the short-comings in the front end badly. With the Race-Tech stuff in the forks, both ends match perfectly.

Garry's fork brace is the one thing left that I'd like to try, although it's hard to see how the handling could really be much improved over how it is now.

Since I'm already planning on getting the fork brace, I may be able to afford the springs, but the emulator is out of reach for now. I guess this year will just be changing to a heavier oil.

[Glenn54]

I went to the Race Tech website and looked at the emulator, etc. Do you need ALL the stuff they list, totaling over $500.00?

[Snake Ranch]

I went to the Race Tech website and looked at the emulator, etc. Do you need ALL the stuff they list, totaling over $500.00?


I have a 2011 vaquero.

I don't know what you were looking at on their website, but when I talked to them I was instructed to order the springs and emulators. Right at $300.00 total.

When I talked to them I was informed they didn't have any information on the Vaquero, only the Voyager. So I did a part number comparison and they are both the same forks and springs.

What I didn't look at was the weight of the skoots. The Voyager is about 60 pounds heavier.

My body weight dripping wet is about 183 pounds. They are going to ask this question to calculate the spring rate.

I was told a .95 spring rate was what I needed.

After all was said and done the front end is better but not where I want it to be. When I gave them the information on the different skoot weights and the measurements on the fork sag, the fork springs are to stiff.

I should have ordered a .80 or a .85 spring rate.

Here is a like that might shed some light on oils and why some work better than others. Looks like the wt rating is not the same for all oils.

Hope this helps:tup:

[Glenn54]

Thanks Snake. That helps a lot.

I have a 2011 vaquero.

I don't know what you were looking at on their website, but when I talked to them I was instructed to order the springs and emulators. Right at $300.00 total.

When I talked to them I was informed they didn't have any information on the Vaquero, only the Voyager. So I did a part number comparison and they are both the same forks and springs.

What I didn't look at was the weight of the skoots. The Voyager is about 60 pounds heavier.

My body weight dripping wet is about 183 pounds. They are going to ask this question to calculate the spring rate.

I was told a .95 spring rate was what I needed.

After all was said and done the front end is better but not where I want it to be. When I gave them the information on the different skoot weights and the measurements on the fork sag, the fork springs are to stiff.

I should have ordered a .80 or a .85 spring rate.

Here is a like that might shed some light on oils and why some work better than others. Looks like the wt rating is not the same for all oils.

Hope this helps:tup:

[Snake Ranch]

Thanks Snake. That helps a lot.

Guess I was in to big of a hurry. I forgot to put the web link for the oil weight issues I was referring to.

So without any more delay,

http://www.peterverdone.com/archive/lowspeed.htm:tup:

[Lumberjack]

This is link I think they meant
http://www.peterverdone.com/archive/lowspeed.htm


Guess I was in to big of a hurry. I forgot to put the web link for the oil weight issues I was referring to.

So without any more delay,

http://www.peterverdone.com/archive/lowspeed.htm:tup:

[Sabre-t]

Wow! I had no idea that fork oil weight values were so worthless. Well, I always used Motul Maxima, so at least I was comparing apples to apples.

Thanks for the link!

[Allen D]

WOW, I had no idea choosing fork oil was this in depth. So how do we determine what type and "weight" of oil was used in our forks? I read through that link and most of it made sense however using the chart at the bottom, I'm not sure what I'm actually reading.

I'd love to have a bit better dampening on my front suspension. It's decent but a bit soft for my tastes, how do I know what oil I have and what oil then I need to get?

Here's my biggest question as of right now, how do you drain the oil from the forks? Do you have to remove them to do so?

[Sabre-t]

WOW, I had no idea choosing fork oil was this in depth. So how do we determine what type and "weight" of oil was used in our forks? I read through that link and most of it made sense however using the chart at the bottom, I'm not sure what I'm actually reading.

I'd love to have a bit better dampening on my front suspension. It's decent but a bit soft for my tastes, how do I know what oil I have and what oil then I need to get?

Here's my biggest question as of right now, how do you drain the oil from the forks? Do you have to remove them to do so?

Showa SS-8 (10 wt) is what is recommended in the service manual, so I would think that is what is in it. It's a little over half way down the table and the end of the article.

The best way to drain the forks is to take them off and pour the oil out, pumping the fork several times to get the sludge out of the bottom. I always put a little clean oil in, pump it a few times, then pour out with pumping to get as much of that sludge out as possible. Fork oil becomes acidic with age and use and that sludge contains a lot of those acids. Be sure to check the seals and replace them if they look worn.

Look up how to do it on youtube (it doesn't have to be Kawi specific) and search for threads here that describe how to measure when filling.

[hlknvlcn60]

I switched to 15W oil in my Vaquero front forks and it seems as if it stabilized the ride better with less bouncing back and forth on bumpy roads....the bike seems to be a bit more leveled in those situations with about 30 lbs. of air in the rear shocks.