Jerky throttle at low speeds.

[KURT44]

After Ivan's Ecu flash, I still have jerky throttle response at town speeds. It's beginning to make me want to get a different bike. I have done throttle adjustments, with and without Racing Ray's mod, different idle settings. Any other ideas? Thanks

[redjay]

Give Ivan a call ?

[cnc]

Got a 1600 that has suffered from the same thing. I find that having zero slack in the throttle cables and a squeaky clean throttle body makes it pretty much disappear.

[KURT44]

I cleaned the throttle body about 1000 miles ago and thought that helped. Maybe it's getting dirty quickly in this humidity. Will try it again. Thanks

[KURT44]

I have taken the slack out as well.

[mike07nad]

After Ivan's Ecu flash, I still have jerky throttle response at town speeds. It's beginning to make me want to get a different bike. I have done throttle adjustments, with and without Racing Ray's mod, different idle settings. Any other ideas? Thanks

Mine is jerky also, I tried a tank full of Mid-Grade yesterday and either I'm starting to figure out the Jerkyness or its less noticeable. Also, I did not experience any Pinging - But then again I didn't do any Wide Open launches - Which really is not my riding style.

I found that when I lead the group of 2 I ride with, It's less jerky and when I follow my wife's Spyder. Where we used to ride in a closer formation, I find it hard to keep up tight while at speeds around 35-45. I'm afraid I'm gonna plow into her. (It's all that extra power)

[Snake Ranch]

After Ivan's Ecu flash, I still have jerky throttle response at town speeds. It's beginning to make me want to get a different bike. I have done throttle adjustments, with and without Racing Ray's mod, different idle settings. Any other ideas? Thanks

Check the clearance between the handlebar and the throttle grip. Mine had .030" clearance which is a lot, considering the ECM is reading every little movement.

I took the grip off and used my inside and outside micrometers it to see how much clearance there was. But you could see it just by moving the grip up and down. Not side by side.

I took some black electrical tape and wrapped it around the handlebar in two places. It also took two layers. I had to stretch it to get it thin enough to get the grip on. I put a little ATF to lube it.

Problem solved on this part of the herky jerky mode.:tup:

[Allen D]

Check the clearance between the handlebar and the throttle grip. Mine had .030" clearance which is a lot, considering the ECM is reading every little movement.

I took the grip off and miced it to see how much clearance there was. But you could see it just by moving the grip up and down. Not side by side.

I took some black electrical tape and wrapped it around the handlebar in two places. It also took two layers. I had to stretch it to get it thin enough to get the grip on. I put a little ATF to lube it.

Problem solved on this part of the herky jerky mode.:tup:

I've never taken a grip off a bike, can you explain this in further detail? Mine too is very herky jerky...

[redjay]

Were your bikes "herky jerky" before the flash, or only since the flash ?

[KURT44]

Always been that way. It doesn`t sputter or anything, just wants to go with just a little twist or when you let off slows very quickly. I pull in the clutch more than necessary to try and smooth it out. My 1500 was very smooth and I have a 900 that is very smooth.

[Framer]

Mine was a little herky jerky when I bought it ( it already had Rays mod). Once I had the ECU flashed it was worse. It felt undriveable at low speeds. I took the mod off and it's 95% better. Almost no hurky jerky felling at all.

[Snake Ranch]

I've never taken a grip off a bike, can you explain this in further detail? Mine too is very herky jerky...

Look at the top of the housing for the throttle grip. There are two phillips head screws in kind of a square plate. There is one more on the front of the housing just below level with the brake lever. Put a blanket on the fuel tank to protect it so you don't chip the paint. Trust me I know. Look at the throttle cables coming out the bottom of the throttle housing, there are two, and they are chrome. They have a small black rubber sleeves on the chrome hex area by the black plastic, that can be pushed back. Push them back and use a wrench to back the jam nuts off. Screw the adjusters for the cable in to create some slack in the cables.

Take the three screws out and the housing, it will come apart in two pieces. The lower half may want to fall off the handle bar. If you are not sure of getting the cables back in the same location, mark them. Pull the cables out and slip the tube off the handle bar.

If you are going to use black electrical tape, pull it tight but don't overlap it unless you are going all the way around. You want it round like the handlebar.

I used black electrical tape because it offered the best thickness for filling the gap that my skoot had. I can't believe all these skoots would have the same clearance in the grip tube. Depending what the gap is you may need to use something different. I put a little ATF fluid on the tape prior to reassembly, as it was kinda sticky. After a short time the stickiness went away.

When you go back together use RacnRays method to adjust the cables.:tup::tup:

You can find his adjustment instruction by doing a search with his name on the form.:tup:

[Snake Ranch]

Even though Ivan's mod has eliminated the fuel-cut jerkiness you will always feel some jerky motion due to backlash or clearance in the transmission gears and shafts.

I don't think you can get away from it 100 percent.:tup:

[mike07nad]

Even though Ivan's mod has eliminated the fuel-cut jerkiness you will always feel some jerky motion due to backlash or clearance in the transmission gears and shafts.

I don't think you can get away from it 100 percent.:tup:

Allow me to ramble a bit. The Jerkyness.

Prior to the Ivan Mod the two things we 1700 riders complained about was Lack of Power and Backfire on Decel. After Ivan Mod we have Power out the wazu and Jerkieness on Decel.

I'm gonna bet that in the OEM KAW tune - they detuned the engine intentionally to give the Decel Popping as a way of keeping the ride smoother as you let off the accelerator. Less engine braking. This probably also helped meet the emission requirements. But this OEM tuning resulted in sluggish acceleration and top end. In this tune the transition between Full throttle (not sure if torque is the right word) and No throttle free wheeling was minimal. Let's put it on a scale of 0 to 10 for this conversation.

Along comes Ivan and gives us what we wanted in Power and eliminated the Decel Pop. Anyone who has ridden an Ivan Tune plainly see's that the Power end has moved to a 20 which we all love and the bike goes faster faster. But as the result of the high end tune it introduces engine back pressure introduced MORE engine braking on Decel. So let's call it -10 on our imaginary scale.

So where we started with a 10 unit swing from Full On to Full Off with the OEM tune we now have a 20 unit swing from Full On to Full Off. But that 20 swing is still in the same throttle grip turn distance. This translates into a very touchy throttle for us who were used to turning it a certain amount to get a certain result. Hence the Herkie-Jerkies.

Enter the Racing Ray throttle mod (which if I understand it) allowed you to move from Full On to Full Off in less distance of twisting the throttle - thus going to a 5 unit on our imaginary scale. It allowed a quicker throttle response to get to the speed/RPM you wanted. It also maintained the Lethargic OEM power and Decel Pop. But it helped the overall rideability which is good.

Solution (My opinion) - we need to retrain ourselves. We need to relearn which gear and which throttle (Smoothness) we need to keep the Jerkies away.

I've ridden somewhere close to 100,000 miles on a 3 different Voyagers. My instinctive riding style has been set. Now with about 600 miles on my Ivan Modded Voyager - I'm trying to relearn. I'm thinking I will get there - it's just gonna take time to retrain my Right Wrist on how to Decelerate and Maintain a slower traffic pace.

Sorry for the long windiness - Maybe this will help, Maybe it's garbage - Who knows - Again my rambling thoughts. If nuthing else, I may have just convinced myself that I need to ride my bike more to get more comfortable.......

[gv550]

My observation is less engine braking after the Ivan flash. I have a fair bit of deceleration jerking as well, although I don't think it's much worse than stock. I've been running the Ivan flash for 40k and dshelly's quick throttle for 250k so my recollection of stock may have faded somewhat.
At the first hint of deceleration jerk I am quick to pull the clutch lever and just coast until I'm ready for the next downshift, or throttle up.

[Peg]

I guess we've all noticed some jerkiness since the re-flash. I find myself resting my right index finger on the front brake assembly so that I can make very small incremental throttle movements without my wrist bouncing around as a result of a rough road surface.

:shrug: Works for me.

[TX1700]

I guess we've all noticed some jerkiness since the re-flash. I find myself resting my right index finger on the front brake assembly so that I can make very small incremental throttle movements without my wrist bouncing around as a result of a rough road surface.

:shrug: Works for me.

Yes, I have learned to ride with more finesse on the throttle and I like the way it works now that I am use to it.

[BigDog1294]

Solution (My opinion) - we need to retrain ourselves. We need to relearn which gear and which throttle (Smoothness) we need to keep the Jerkies away.



You may have just hit on it, Mike. Retrain the right wrist.
(Hmmm...for some reason that just doesn't sound right! LOL)

From Ivan's 1700 page:

5) Re-program Kawasaki ETV (Electronic Throttle Valve) for linear throttle opening and remove power restrictions
(Responds and feels just like a cable throttle)

a) This allows a more sensitive throttle that is easy to control.
If you ask for 10% throttle opening, you get 10% throttle opening

OK, definitely more sensitive. I really had not paid that much attention to the jerkiness, but I can agree with the sensitivity increase. Easier? I guess so, once you retrain yourself. I can't say how much, but there was DEFINITELY a delay between the time/amount you twist the wrist and the resulting throttle change. Not much, but some.

7) Reduced heavy engine braking on decel.
More relaxed gear changes and throttle modulation at all speeds.

I noticed reduced engine braking immediately, but that could be directly related to retraining the way we ride (gear change/engine speed, throttle position; lower gear = more engine braking.) I'm like you, rarely at WOT (except when Wolf is NO LONGER following me!) But bottom line, I'm happy with the increased power and driveability for my riding style.

[VulcanD]

Yes, I have learned to ride with more finesse on the throttle and I like the way it works now that I am use to it.

I agree. The reflash has made the throttle MUCH more sensitive. It responds. Too much? There are times when I find the response annoying. However, the power increase is massive, and I have gotten used to the sensitivity. I wouldn't trade go back. I may remove the throttle adjuster I put on to reduce the response a tad, but I am not unhappy that I did the flash. I've learned to use the clutch a bit more, with a bit more sensitivity to how the throttle reacts.

...I still have some pinging when I goose it to the wall. I almost never do that, however. First through 4th I've not had pinging while going balls out. The only pinging has been on hard acceleration in 5th from 45-55 on up.

I'm still happy I had the flash.

[redjay]

I noticed after I added the throttle mod to my Voyager it would lurch if I hit a pothole and twisted the throttle a little more than expected. Maybe what you guys need now is a throttle that turns the cables less than they did with the stock throttle assembly. Ray are you listening :)

[mike07nad]

My observation is less engine braking after the Ivan flash. I have a fair bit of deceleration jerking as well, although I don't think it's much worse than stock. I've been running the Ivan flash for 40k and dshelly's quick throttle for 250k so my recollection of stock may have faded somewhat.
At the first hint of deceleration jerk I am quick to pull the clutch lever and just coast until I'm ready for the next downshift, or throttle up.

That is what I'm finding myself doing - At first hint of a Jerky situation - Pull clutch and shift. It seems to be smoothing out for me. Like I said - I have to relearn how to ride Ivan Flash. I'm getting the hang of whats happening.

At somepoint I will chat with you further about what is needed to check out that High Idle situation. I read the Throttle body removal in the manual - Whew. Can you just loosen it enough to put in the gasket without removing it entirely?

[mike07nad]

I noticed reduced engine braking immediately, but that could be directly related to retraining the way we ride (gear change/engine speed, throttle position; lower gear = more engine braking.) I'm like you, rarely at WOT (except when Wolf is NO LONGER following me!) But bottom line, I'm happy with the increased power and driveability for my riding style.

I might be using the wrong term - Maybe it's not engine braking I'm feeling. I may just have to ride it to Kentucky and try yours to see if I'm just overreacting.

I'm liking the reflash more each time I'm riding it - I believe I will keep it. Next up a call to Ivan to see his thoughts on my 2,100 + Idle issue. It's happened 3 times now. I was kinda hoping it would just go away -

Later.

[Snake Ranch]

Allow me to ramble a bit. The Jerkyness.

Prior to the Ivan Mod the two things we 1700 riders complained about was Lack of Power and Backfire on Decel. After Ivan Mod we have Power out the wazu and Jerkieness on Decel.

I'm gonna bet that in the OEM KAW tune - they detuned the engine intentionally to give the Decel Popping as a way of keeping the ride smoother as you let off the accelerator. Less engine braking. This probably also helped meet the emission requirements. But this OEM tuning resulted in sluggish acceleration and top end. In this tune the transition between Full throttle (not sure if torque is the right word) and No throttle free wheeling was minimal. Let's put it on a scale of 0 to 10 for this conversation.

Along comes Ivan and gives us what we wanted in Power and eliminated the Decel Pop. Anyone who has ridden an Ivan Tune plainly see's that the Power end has moved to a 20 which we all love and the bike goes faster faster. But as the result of the high end tune it introduces engine back pressure introduced MORE engine braking on Decel. So let's call it -10 on our imaginary scale.

So where we started with a 10 unit swing from Full On to Full Off with the OEM tune we now have a 20 unit swing from Full On to Full Off. But that 20 swing is still in the same throttle grip turn distance. This translates into a very touchy throttle for us who were used to turning it a certain amount to get a certain result. Hence the Herkie-Jerkies.

Enter the Racing Ray throttle mod (which if I understand it) allowed you to move from Full On to Full Off in less distance of twisting the throttle - thus going to a 5 unit on our imaginary scale. It allowed a quicker throttle response to get to the speed/RPM you wanted. It also maintained the Lethargic OEM power and Decel Pop. But it helped the overall rideability which is good.

Solution (My opinion) - we need to retrain ourselves. We need to relearn which gear and which throttle (Smoothness) we need to keep the Jerkies away.

I've ridden somewhere close to 100,000 miles on a 3 different Voyagers. My instinctive riding style has been set. Now with about 600 miles on my Ivan Modded Voyager - I'm trying to relearn. I'm thinking I will get there - it's just gonna take time to retrain my Right Wrist on how to Decelerate and Maintain a slower traffic pace.

Sorry for the long windiness - Maybe this will help, Maybe it's garbage - Who knows - Again my rambling thoughts. If nuthing else, I may have just convinced myself that I need to ride my bike more to get more comfortable.......


When I first bought this Vaquero the jerkiness was always giving my wife and myself a lesson in whiplash. Bad enough my wife and I would hit our helmets at times.

Sooo, it was a real personal mission to correct this. Kawasaki didn't come forth with an answer, and I personally think they didn't have a clue at the dealerships as what caused this.

I think the engineering of the electronics is what made the problem noticeable between manufactures, the size of the engines and weight of the skoots. Some of these 1700's had more issues than others and I think that was due to the vintage of the electronics used in the throttle bodies.

I changed the original throttle body out for a new and 3 year later built throttle bodie and there was a big difference on how it responded to input signals.

The jerk was still there, and it was something I could not control, but not near as bad. I felt I could live with it until something more could be done. I had contacted Ivan about a year and a half prior about his fuel-cut eliminator, but he had not developed one for the 1700's yet. So I was just waiting.

I had already done the throttle mod like RacnRay, adjusted the throttle cables, and took the sloppy up and down movement out of the throttle tube and handlebar that was yanking on the throttle cables every time I hit a small bump.

Ivan's website had a small tidbit of info on the problems the EPA had created with the law that was passed I think 1986 that affected all fuel injected engines. But with Ivan's flash, the herky jerky was completely gone.

At certain low throttle settings and rpm's the fuel is shut off completely and suddenly, and then turned back on just as suddenly.

The only reason I mention all of this is after the flash I still have a small amount of a jerk but I know it is related to gear train clearances because if I am real careful on decel or accel there is no jerking at all. Before I couldn't control it.

I think a machine with a large engine, good compression, low gearing, light weight makes the condition prime so you will feel the backlash in the gear train very noticeable under certain conditions.

Conditions we all pass through every time we speed up or slow down.:tup:

[mike07nad]

When I first bought this Vaquero the jerkiness was always giving my wife and myself a lesson in whiplash. Bad enough my wife and I would hit our helmets at times.

:tup:

Probably where I am spoiled is that I don't remember ever having any Jerkyness on any of my 3 Voyagers (2009 non ABS e/w Front End Wobble, Traded for a 2012 w/ABS then to a 2014 ABS - Traded 12 due to bad output shaft bearing 3 weeks before a big trip) all 3 had a Bully/EJK fuel processor on them 12 and 14 from day 1. Must be the Bully/EJK had some internal tuning which helped with the Decel Pop and Jerkies.

Thanks for joining in the Rambling Conversation - We may not solve it - but we will at least know we aren't alone and what others have done to reduce it.

[Scootergptx]

At certain low throttle settings and rpm's the fuel is shut off completely and suddenly, and then turned back on just as suddenly.


Usually 2nd gear. Most times taking a corner, hit the throttle as you're coming out of it and about a 1/2 second dead spot. Most times between 1500-2000 rpm.

Mine has been doing this since I picked it up last November. Flashed, cleaned the throttle body and resealed it all.

I'm used to it, but has to be my biggest complaint on the bike.

[KURT44]

Where I have the most problems are in town going down hill on a rough road. Smooth and flat roads I can keep the bike pretty smooth. I have tried to stay in higher gears, that seems to help.

[KURT44]

Do the completely stock Voyagers have a jerky throttle response at slow speeds? I don`t think mine did. I did drive a completely stock Voyager a year ago and it was smooth. That`s why I drove it to see.

[mike07nad]

Do the completely stock Voyagers have a jerky throttle response at slow speeds? I don`t think mine did. I did drive a completely stock Voyager a year ago and it was smooth. That`s why I drove it to see.

I was plain ready to have it flashed back - then I started reading and posted a couple posts and have now ridden it 12 or 1300 miles. It's getting better. I think I can now live with it and I'm gonna assume that once my riding style has completely morphed to an Ivanized ECU Tune - I will not even know there is a difference. Except now I occasionally will lite the tires up trying to quickly take off at a straight across intersection. I kinda always knew how much I could punch it to take off - well now it seems to want to spin the tires. So I gotta regroup.

[VulcanD]

I was plain ready to have it flashed back - then I started reading and posted a couple posts and have now ridden it 12 or 1300 miles. It's getting better. I think I can now live with it and I'm gonna assume that once my riding style has completely morphed to an Ivanized ECU Tune - I will not even know there is a difference. Except now I occasionally will lite the tires up trying to quickly take off at a straight across intersection. I kinda always knew how much I could punch it to take off - well now it seems to want to spin the tires. So I gotta regroup.

Never thought about having it flashed back. However, when I turn through an intersection, I have to remember to gentle and not goose it, or I'll end up in the opposite boulevard. First through 4th go like a bat out of hell.

I wonder how an Ivanized Vulcan 1700 compares to a stock Vulcan 2000?

[Allen D]

I adjusted my throttle cables today and much of my jerkiness went away but I'm certainly not experiencing the power you all are describing off the line. I've got to rev mine up more than I think I should have to and it still feels a bit sluggish for a moment. For the record, I'm never trying to launch from the stoplight but I don't think I'm pussyfooting it either.

I know some people said after the flash, they didn't have the lag turning a corner in 2nd like when it was stock but mine still does that a bit. Overall I certainly feel the improvements but I'm not getting quite the change some of you are describing... Wonder what's up.

[Allen D]

Look at the top of the housing for the throttle grip. There are two phillips head screws in kind of a square plate. There is one more on the front of the housing just below level with the brake lever. Put a blanket on the fuel tank to protect it so you don't chip the paint. Trust me I know. Look at the throttle cables coming out the bottom of the throttle housing, there are two, and they are chrome. They have a small black rubber sleeves on the chrome hex area by the black plastic, that can be pushed back. Push them back and use a wrench to back the jam nuts off. Screw the adjusters for the cable in to create some slack in the cables.

Take the three screws out and the housing, it will come apart in two pieces. The lower half may want to fall off the handle bar. If you are not sure of getting the cables back in the same location, mark them. Pull the cables out and slip the tube off the handle bar.

If you are going to use black electrical tape, pull it tight but don't overlap it unless you are going all the way around. You want it round like the handlebar.

I used black electrical tape because it offered the best thickness for filling the gap that my skoot had. I can't believe all these skoots would have the same clearance in the grip tube. Depending what the gap is you may need to use something different. I put a little ATF fluid on the tape prior to reassembly, as it was kinda sticky. After a short time the stickiness went away.

When you go back together use RacnRays method to adjust the cables.:tup::tup:

You can find his adjustment instruction by doing a search with his name on the form.:tup:

Ok so when you talk about the clearance between the grip and handlebars are you describing the feeling if you grab the outside edge of the grip and rattle up and down? If I grab my grip at the very end (chrome edge) and shake my hand up and down it moves a lot. It moves such much so I can hear it rattle within the grip, I'm guessing that's not normal and that's what you fixed with electrical tape?

[Snake Ranch]

Ok so when you talk about the clearance between the grip and handlebars are you describing the feeling if you grab the outside edge of the grip and rattle up and down? If I grab my grip at the very end (chrome edge) and shake my hand up and down it moves a lot. It moves such much so I can hear it rattle within the grip, I'm guessing that's not normal and that's what you fixed with electrical tape?

Yes that is what I am referring to.:tup:

Put your hand up close to the switch housing and try to move it. Bet it will move up and down.:tup:

[Allen D]

Yes that is what I am referring to.:tup:

Put your hand up close to the switch housing and try to move it. Bet it will move up and down.:tup:

It does but it moves much more out at the very end. So what you're saying to do in the most generic of terms is to remove the drip and wrap electrical tape around the throttle tube to remove as much of the play as possible?

[mike07nad]

Greetings all,

I did some stuff on my bike today and noticed it's not as jerky.

#1 - Changed the Oil/Filter - put in 4.4 Qt of Rotella T6 5/40 just like I always use. About 4200 since last oil change. I will note that when I dumped the old oil back into the Gallon Jug - it all fit - I don't know exactly how much extra space is in a 1 gal jug of oil. Maybe it was a little low after 4200 miles. Who knows?

#2 - I bumped the Idle to +100 on the display. Tach reads maybe 1/2 a smidge under 1000. When I had my Bully / EJK I had the idle at +100, But I had dropped it to +50 after I removed the Bully.

The possibilities that helped the jerkies.
#1 - my Oil level was low
#2 - Maybe the Idle RPM's were too low and it sent the engine into a near stall upon deceleration thus the jerkies when you applied throttle.

There is a third option - I'm just getting used to it. Anyway, it's smoother today - let's hope it stays that way.

[KURT44]

I cleaned the throttle body again and it helped a lot. Rode 600 miles and definitely much smoother.

[Snake Ranch]

It does but it moves much more out at the very end. So what you're saying to do in the most generic of terms is to remove the drip and wrap electrical tape around the throttle tube to remove as much of the play as possible?

That is correct.:tup::tup:

[Allen D]

That is correct.:tup::tup:

Thanks. Should the grip have any "slop" on the throttle tube? Not talking about throttle play, I'm talking about the kind of play when you jiggle the grip up and down?

Next, why does it jiggle so much?

[Snake Ranch]

Thanks. Should the grip have any "slop" on the throttle tube? Not talking about throttle play, I'm talking about the kind of play when you jiggle the grip up and down?

Next, why does it jiggle so much?

I put the tape on so there was no slop at all. It was a little sticky at first, but that went away'

When something is mass produced there is what is called manufacturing tolerances. As an example; say an engineer designed a part to be made 6" in diameter. And 50,000 pieces a year are going to be made. This part is going to be assembled with another part. The manufacturing tolerance is going to be + or - 1/8".

That is going to be real easy to make and can be done quick and dirty because of the loose tolerance. As the tolerances get tighter the more the possibility of parts not fitting and working together, and the more it costs to produce. Like an engine.

So if they fit a little loose and the product works reasonable well, they will "sell" it.

Sometimes it takes awhile for people to catch on. The hard part is holding manufacturings feet to the fire, to get them to do better. :tup: