Premium Gas Tanks

Fox News is reporting on their website that the sale of premium gas is tanking. I know we've tossed this subject around about what gas you use, but when I read this, I could not help but think of a comment CaddmanQ made in one of the threads. He said you may be more likely to get a "bad" tank of gas since fewer people will be buying premium. The article said premium is sitting in these tanks much longer than before. More opportunity for water, oils, etc. to get into tanks.
Lastly, one of our local TV stations is running a report about the high demand for scooters, and how hard they are to find now.

[dogdoc]

I've went down to the 91 octane(mid-grade) due to cost and might go down to 87 soon. Pings alot worse though in my bike.

Doc, I've tried 89 octane for a couple of tanks with no pinging, but I'm afraid 87 might be a problem. I'll just have to buy what the wallet can stand. That's all I can do, I guess.

[jussmatt]

It's funny... I do agree with Cadd's comments on the gas. I've always run the highest octane I can get..BUT...I've still had some issues with pinging. My nomad is still stock...so I know there are things that I can/should do to help with the pinging issue..just haven't done it yet.

My point though is some stations where I get gas,will ping worse that other stations. I always try and stop at the "more used" places as to try not to get "stale" or bad gas. (valero, chevron, mobil, exxon, race-track, buckyees, etc) I've had mostly the same results at all of those places with the nomad still pinging like a midget w/ a hammer!!! I did pull into a Conoco about 2 months ago and filled up....92 octane. The pinging decreased dramatically!!!
Now...in the heat of the afternoon, on the ride home from work, it's still prone to ping a little, but only if I lug it...or really lay on it. But under "regular" use, no pinging.

I thought it might be all in my head...so I switch back to one of the others for a 1 tank... right back to the "midget w/ a hammer" syndrome.... I think I'll try and go down a grade next fill up at the Conoco and see what results I have.

That station doesn't have any "propaganda" crap, stating any different additives or anything...so I'm not sure why I don't have the issue w/ their gas. Lucky for me...they also happen to be one of those places that try and compete w/ a low price per gallon instead of just jacking it up!!

There's my 2cw!!

[ccmjr77]

91 is premium out here. 87 is regular and 89 is mid grade.
I have been running the 89, except when I go to Costco, i get the 91, they do not have a mid grade. I try to use costco because they are cheapest price, plus I have a corporate Costco Amex that gives me 5% cash back on gas at Costco, so I save another 5% and at $4.25/gallon that is $0.21/gallon savings.

It's funny... I do agree with Cadd's comments on the gas. I've always run the highest octane I can get..BUT...I've still had some issues with pinging. My nomad is still stock...so I know there are things that I can/should do to help with the pinging issue..just haven't done it yet.

My point though is some stations where I get gas,will ping worse that other stations. I always try and stop at the "more used" places as to try not to get "stale" or bad gas. (valero, chevron, mobil, exxon, race-track, buckyees, etc) I've had mostly the same results at all of those places with the nomad still pinging like a midget w/ a hammer!!! I did pull into a Conoco about 2 months ago and filled up....92 octane. The pinging decreased dramatically!!!
Now...in the heat of the afternoon, on the ride home from work, it's still prone to ping a little, but only if I lug it...or really lay on it. But under "regular" use, no pinging.

I thought it might be all in my head...so I switch back to one of the others for a 1 tank... right back to the "midget w/ a hammer" syndrome.... I think I'll try and go down a grade next fill up at the Conoco and see what results I have.

That station doesn't have any "propaganda" crap, stating any different additives or anything...so I'm not sure why I don't have the issue w/ their gas. Lucky for me...they also happen to be one of those places that try and compete w/ a low price per gallon instead of just jacking it up!!

There's my 2cw!!

All this gas octane stuff reminds me of when unleaded first appeared on the scene. There wasn't any premium grade , except Amoco ( BP now), only 87 octane. Shell's regular was 89 at first, then they changed to 87. My point is.. that back then, you had to find a brand that didn't make your car ping. Larger cars seemed to ping on every brand. Then, lo and behold, the Chevron's, Exxon's, etc started making a premium, cause Amoco was eating their lunch.
Very similar now with these Nomads. I guess you have to find a brand that doesn't cause your bike to ping at lower octanes.

91 is premium out here. 87 is regular and 89 is mid grade.
I have been running the 89, except when I go to Costco, i get the 91, they do not have a mid grade. I try to use costco because they are cheapest price, plus I have a corporate Costco Amex that gives me 5% cash back on gas at Costco, so I save another 5% and at $4.25/gallon that is $0.21/gallon savings.

Hey, nice wunderground weathersticker !! http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[ccmjr77]

Hey, nice wunderground weathersticker !! http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif


why thank you...

[ringadingh]

I always run 87 with no pinging ever. I'll see if it still runs as well on regular when Im in the states tomorrow on the way to the Eastern Rally.

[basco]

The way I see it if your gonna run mid grade you might as well use super even if you put in 5 gallons thats still only 50 or 60 cents more per tank and you dont have to worry about anything

[samkjr]

Im obviously not standing in fron of a pump right now but I think my normal choices all around here are 87, 89, then jumps to 93.
I really dont want to open a whole can of worm here and start a new thread, but can anyone make a quick comment or post a thread link to a previous discussion.

Whats so bad "supposedly" bad about dropping octane and what exactly is wrong with pinging other than annoying sound? any lasting effects of low octane? I'm not even sure I really know what pnging is. AllI know is that my nomad makes all kinds of noises that i never heard from my smooth v4 magna.

[Cajunrider]

I've been using Sam's Club (Murphy Oil) premium and haven't heard any pinging. When about half of my tank is gone, I top it off with 87 and all is still good. I run that tank down and fill up with premium again and do the same at 1/2 tank.

Never htought of that terrebone. Good idea. I'm gonna try it.

Im obviously not standing in fron of a pump right now but I think my normal choices all around here are 87, 89, then jumps to 93.
I really dont want to open a whole can of worm here and start a new thread, but can anyone make a quick comment or post a thread link to a previous discussion.

Whats so bad "supposedly" bad about dropping octane and what exactly is wrong with pinging other than annoying sound? any lasting effects of low octane? I'm not even sure I really know what pnging is. AllI know is that my nomad makes all kinds of noises that i never heard from my smooth v4 magna.

Howdy, samkjr. I'll see if I can find a link or two for you. Be back in a few.

[jussmatt]

samkjr...... there is lots of info on "pinging". Brad's got a running thread..

http://www.kawanow.proboards77.com/index.cgi?board=nomad&action=display&thread=2689

that's got some great info in there. Long story short...PINGING is NOT good! It will have some adverse effects in the long run. Check out that thread when you get a chance.

[jussmatt]

BankerFrank..that was what I was getting at with the pinging and such.... I've tried all kinds of places from the "high profile" places to the "cheap as dirt" places... I have NO idea why, but for some reason my Nomad likes the gas at that Conoco! I just got lucky that they happen to run lower prices!! LOL!

I think I'll do what terrebonne does... at first anyway to see if I notice any difference.

Basco...I've always kind of thought along those same lines too.... I love people that will drive across town because the gas is 10 cents cheaper someplace over there...only to end up saving about $3-$4 tops... cost them that much in gas to get there!!!!

[racinchef]

My carburetted 2000 runs fine on 87 octane, but I have noticed that I don't seem to get quite as good mileage. I'm guessing I get 36-37 mpg as opposed to 39-41. In the long run if I can use 87 and get away with it I will.

My carburetted 2000 runs fine on 87 octane, but I have noticed that I don't seem to get quite as good mileage. I'm guessing I get 36-37 mpg as opposed to 39-41. In the long run if I can use 87 and get away with it I will.

racinchef,

Have you noticed any decrease in performance, like not as much pick up ?

BankerFrank..that was what I was getting at with the pinging and such.... I've tried all kinds of places from the "high profile" places to the "cheap as dirt" places... I have NO idea why, but for some reason my Nomad likes the gas at that Conoco! I just got lucky that they happen to run lower prices!! LOL!

I think I'll do what terrebonne does... at first anyway to see if I notice any difference.

Basco...I've always kind of thought along those same lines too.... I love people that will drive across town because the gas is 10 cents cheaper someplace over there...only to end up saving about $3-$4 tops... cost them that much in gas to get there!!!!


Jussmatt, I have a quirky Prius that performs better on Shell. Don't know why, but I just roll with it. Go figure http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[ruruson1]

The exxon here in town posted they do not sell Ethenol,l I started buying my gas from them again. I seem to get better milage on my bike and in my car.

[coolblue]

I have heard it said that there can be 1-1 1/2 gallons of gas left in the system at the pump. So at a single hose pump if you pump in 3 gallons of premium half of it could be the left over regular from the last person who used the pump. I have started to use gas stations that use a separate hose for each grade so I get what I pay for.

[oldbikers]

I have been running regular for several weeks and no pinging but I jus installed the half caddman air system and the TFI with vance & hines baggers will see how it does on regular now.

a friend of mine who has worked on these bikes for awhile says, this bike gets it power from the higher octane.

[Yellow Jacket]

a friend of mine who has worked on these bikes for awhile says, this bike gets it power from the higher octane.

93 octane has no more "power" in it than 87 octane. What it does have is additives that makes it more difficult to ignite. This gives it the capability to withstand a higher compression without pre-igniting or detonating, commonly called "pinging". Excessive detonation or pinging can and has burned holes right through the top of the piston. This is not a good thing.

One of the things that makes folks thing higher octane can produce more power or mileage is the use of knock or ping sensors in engine control systems. Most cars today have this setup. When a lower octane fuel than optimum is used for that engine the engine control system will retard the timing and some other settings to eliminate the knock or ping to save the engine from self destruction. This will invariably reduce the power and the mileage. As soon as the proper octane fuel is introduced, the settings go back to normal, resulting in a restoration of the lost power and mileage. Thus the conclusion is, "Gee, I get better power and mileage with this octane. This gas must have more power in it." In fact, that is not true. It is the engine settings getting back to optimal that causes the result. In the case of an engine which is using the optimal octane for that particular engine, going to a higher octane will not result in increased power or mileage.

Once you have found the octane which will run in your engine without any detonation or pinging you will gain nothing by going to a higher octane than that.

[rickyboy]

So Bob,...If I understand you correctly, ....using a lower octane fuel can actually hurt your engine? The lower octane ignites sooner ?
So as the piston compress the fuel/air mix and gets ignited sooner, the piston may not be at it's TDC and the optimal point for ignition. Do I have the idea correct? Sounds like a person is better off biting the bullet and pay more for the higher octane, and having less stress and a longer life from my engine. Right? or wrong?

[Yellow Jacket]

So Bob,...If I understand you correctly, ....using a lower octane fuel can actually hurt your engine? The lower octane ignites sooner ?
So as the piston compress the fuel/air mix and gets ignited sooner, the piston may not be at it's TDC and the optimal point for ignition. Do I have the idea correct? Sounds like a person is better off biting the bullet and pay more for the higher octane, and having less stress and a longer life from my engine. Right? or wrong?

That's correct. The fuel/air mixture ignites from the heat of compression before it should. So the hot gases are expanding and trying to push the piston down while it is still being forced up. That stress results in an audibile ping or knock. The hot gases get even hotter since it's still being compressed. That is what can burn a hole right through the piston. Severe or constant pinging may cause damage to the engine. It will not hurt anything to run a higher octane than necessary.