Voyager vs Ultra

[Ipack]

Having come from a Road King and now owning a Voyager , Ive been somewhat getting the jones for a Ultra Classic . Well I got to to ride a friend of mines Ultra tonight . Nice bike but being I'm just a tad over 6ft I found the rider compartment a tad small and felt like I was sitting way on top of everything . I also found the steering to be quicker ....I never noticed these things on the Road King but I should have being the same bike , now I can honestly say I like the way the Voyager fits me , handles and rides better than the ultra ..... Not trying to trash the Ultra but the voyager just feels better at least to me seems better suited to a taller rider and the handle bars seem to be in a more natural position . the ultra bars felt very low .... now having compared the 2 I need to ride the Victory and see which of the 3 I look at in the next few yrs when I look for a new ride. Kind of a bummer really , I was hoping to get back into a Harley in the next few yrs but don't believe the Ultra is gonna be a fit for me ....Wonder if the tour glide has the same feel ? Ive heard the victory has more room than the Voyager ...

[highwayman2011]

Better try one of those Indians too.

[Ipack]

don't think I can get past the look of the fairing on the Indian . I haven't seen one in person yet just pictures .....

[BigAl1952]

I owned a 2005 Ultra classic for a couple of years and ended up selling it. I liked the bike alright but the Voyager just fits me better. I am 6' and about 215. I would also agree with you on the handling the voyager out handles the Ultra by along ways in my opinion. Owing another Harley after the 4 I have owned is not even going to happen. There prices have gone off the end of the charts for me and the accessories are there to. Al

[napom]

I tested an Ultra before I bought the Voyager - at 5'10" I agree with you - the Ultra felt more cramped . . . my Quad E Fred Flintstone brakes felted trapped on the Ultra too . . . Then there was the cost comparison which really put the Voyager on top - At 36,000 miles on my Voyager, I still have another 40,000 miles of gas to buy before I spend the same amount on my Voyager as compared to the 0 Mile out the door price of the Ultra . . .

[Ipack]

There prices have gone off the end of the charts for me and the accessories are there to. Al[/QUOTE]



Amen , yeah at 26k+ for a new Ultra and the fact I don't like the fit , I'm with you . My 07 Road King has me gun shy , Loved the bike but in the 15k miles I rode it there where way to may mechanical issues that I find unacceptable for a machine in that price range . I like my Voyager well enough to keep it for awhile . Still would like to test a Victory touring Ive heard a lot of god things about them and the owners appear to be satisfied .

[cactusjack]

There prices have gone off the end of the charts for me and the accessories are there to. Al



Amen , yeah at 26k+ for a new Ultra and the fact I don't like the fit , I'm with you . My 07 Road King has me gun shy , Loved the bike but in the 15k miles I rode it there where way to may mechanical issues that I find unacceptable for a machine in that price range . I like my Voyager well enough to keep it for awhile . Still would like to test a Victory touring Ive heard a lot of god things about them and the owners appear to be satisfied .

There is no other brand of bike with as many accessories available. Have you priced Kawasaki accessories? They're no less expensive, if the accessory yu want is even available.

[ponch]

I tried an Ultra, Voyager and Vision before getting my RT and I came from a 1600 Nomad. The HD is a compact cockpit, but so it the Voyager compared to the 1600. The shift linkage on the Ultra annoyed me too, but a new Ultra is a better bike on a few fronts. It handles better, has better fit and finish and I imagine it has more stonk too. I rode a 96" Ultra and I couldn't tell the difference in power from a Voyager. The Vision had more mid and top power than either. The Ultra will also have more gadgetry too to integrate other gadgets and as Scott said, the accessories catalog is thicker than the manhattan phone book. It all depends on what you like and what you can afford. I see that HD brought back the Roadglide Ultra for 2016. It's outfitted like the Limited and has the twin cooled engine too. It also comes in purple :D and the roadglide has a little more room than the ultra or the feeling that it does.

[Ken Vega]

I have ridden the Street Glide and the New Sport Trike HD makes. I really liked the handling of the SG, however in slow speed the handling feels heavy because of the fairing. The trike was just adifferent animal in the way it steers. In both cases fit and finish was very nice, but the 103 CI motor is very unimpressive.

[JD Hog]

I will start by saying I loved both my Ultra Classics. I had an '01 and an '08 that were great bikes. Both had 7 year warranties and I would never have a Harley without it. I sold the '01 just before the warranty expired as I had too many claims and didn't want to own it without a warranty.

I now have a '15 Voyager (with a 6 year warranty) and I must say that the Voyager handles much better then the Ultras did. Slow speed is much more stable and high speed corners are much better also. The last Ultra that I rode was a 2011 for a week and it still was not as nice as the Voyager.

I don't know how a '15 Ultra would match up to a '15 Voyager but I was not interested because of the price difference. For under $20,000 OTD with the warranty I was sold on the Voyager and it is the first bike that I was able to pay cash for!

The Voyager doesn't have a large selection of extras but I'm ok with that as I spent way too much money on the '01 before I learned my lesson.

For me it was a no brainer after test riding the Voyager and comparing the prices between them both. Now being retired on a fixed income I want a bike that will cost less to operate over it's lifetime. I had such good luck with my '05 Nomad that I had for 15 months that I never questioned the quality and workmanship of Kawasaki's products after that.

[rick6375]

I have rode my brothers 09 Ultra once, and that was all it took for me to know that was not my next bike. I also felt like I was on top of the triple tree and it the only bike I couldnt wait to get off of. The seat was fine, but the way my legs had to go around the tank and then could only get my feet on the edge of tge floor boards, my knees were aching within 30 miles of riding. Rode it 82 miles home, and at 5'8" it felt cramped to me. Its also lowered 1" in back, by I touch ground easier on the Voyager.

[paul]

Don't ride the Victory.......Unless you're ready to purchase. Power, handling, lots (and I mean lots) of room to be comfortable, storage, it beats em all. Not a bike on the road of this configuration that handles so closely to the sport bikes. I use all, repeat ALL of my tires from sidewall to sidewall in turns, and more often than not, don't even scrape any hard parts. And with really no effort. Just drop it in and she goes. Front end feels light and makes the whole bike easily maneuverable. Capable of up to 200 (that's no typo) HP with no internal engine mods. Yes, it is that strong. A few simple changes/add ons and you're at somewhere close to 125 HP and Torque on the ground! I have a little over 100K miles of riding, various bikes. Never had a bike that instills the kind of confidence the Vic does.

[CBO Vaquero]

The Harleys feel cramped to me to being 6'4" tall. The Vaquero I'm on is pretty decent but the seat options need help to be comfortable, the modified Voyager seat I'm currently using is a decent fit. Honestly the Victory bikes have the most room for a tall guy right off the floor but the really clunky tranny kept me from dropping any money.

[ponch]

Not a bike on the road of this configuration that handles so closely to the sport bikes.

Rubbish

[ponch]

The Harleys feel cramped to me to being 6'4" tall. The Vaquero I'm on is pretty decent but the seat options need help to be comfortable, the modified Voyager seat I'm currently using is a decent fit. Honestly the Victory bikes have the most room for a tall guy right off the floor but the really clunky tranny kept me from dropping any money.

The vaquero wasn't out yet when I did my test rides. Even so, to do two up the seat has to be changed and some sort of back rest installed. I like the bags better though than the voyagers. If they only put in ABS from the get go. The colors for the first couple years were the best ones.

[ndbigfish]

I'm not sure where the 26+K came from for an Ultra but they are $23,500 all day at the HD dealer closest to me. I've never owned a Voyager, but my pillion has a lot to say about the comfort of bike I'll own. She was never comfortable on the Nomads even after backrests, seat mods, footrest mods, and the suspension mods I did. The pillion has to be comfortable and she wasn't on a Wing or Kawasaki. It tried the Voyager but the fit and finish issues along with trunk, lower and saddlebag issues were a deal breaker. I really wanted another Kawasaki because of my experience with my 1500s but what they offered had too many drawbacks.

[Dieago62]

I like the ultra but being in the business so long I'm kinda burned out on bikes so I couldn't make myself drop the cash one brings. With this being said Ive had several opportunity to buy a clean low mileage 20010-12 voyager for 9000-10 grand thats half of new cost! what does this tell you? I settled for a clean 2011 Vaquero for under 8200.00 low mileage under 10000 and loaded with goodies. What else does this tell you? And this was in late springtime!

[Dieago62]

Oh and one other thing I always read where people mention the clunk shifting on the Kawasaki 1700's Let me say Kaw put that clunk in the shifter trying to emulate The big H Kawasaki has built millions of bikes that shifted smooth as silk. And my Vaquero If thats not trying to copy the street glide I don't know what is. Im not anti any brand I just tight with my cash. But Im 6'1 and both big Kaw's are cramp to me Bit my knees twice lol

[ponch]

I'm not sure where the 26+K came from for an Ultra but they are $23,500 all day at the HD dealer closest to me. I've never owned a Voyager, but my pillion has a lot to say about the comfort of bike I'll own. She was never comfortable on the Nomads even after backrests, seat mods, footrest mods, and the suspension mods I did. The pillion has to be comfortable and she wasn't on a Wing or Kawasaki. It tried the Voyager but the fit and finish issues along with trunk, lower and saddlebag issues were a deal breaker. I really wanted another Kawasaki because of my experience with my 1500s but what they offered had too many drawbacks.

They list for 23,549 and that's for black. I wouldn't get black. The two tone is $24,599 and then there can be dealer convenience fees. I like the purple one. Reminds me of Scott's Limited. I wish BMWs had that array of color choices. Instead they have 10 shades of silver and grey.

[ponch]

I like the ultra but being in the business so long I'm kinda burned out on bikes so I couldn't make myself drop the cash one brings. With this being said Ive had several opportunity to buy a clean low mileage 20010-12 voyager for 9000-10 grand thats half of new cost! what does this tell you? I settled for a clean 2011 Vaquero for under 8200.00 low mileage under 10000 and loaded with goodies. What else does this tell you? And this was in late springtime!

It tells me Kawasaki's lose their value quickly.

[smokier]

... Ive had several opportunity to buy a clean low mileage 20010-12 voyager for 9000-10 grand thats half of new cost! what does this tell you?

That we Kawasaki owners don't ask enough for our rides when we go to sell them! :yep:

Ride safe,
Smokier

[ponch]

That we Kawasaki owners don't ask enough for our rides when we go to sell them! :yep:

Ride safe,
Smokier

I have a feeling almost no one gets what they want for their used vehicle, unless it's low mileage and immaculate. The thing is that Japanese bikes for the most part are heavily discounted, especially leftovers, which are usually found easily. That doesn't happen as much with HD and BMW and if there is a leftover, it won't be discounted as much as a big 4 bike. SO, if I was in the market for a used vaquero or voyager, that would be taken into account.

[BigAl1952]

If you take this price thing and put it in perspective they both drop about the same in my opinion. The Kawi is only 16K to start with. I've seen leftovers for 12K 2013 Voyagers. I've also seen the used ones in the 9 to 12 range with low miles and the price is regulated by what year it is. The Ultra starts out in the 20's but they don't hold that range to long as I know I have seen them 2 yrs old in the 16 to 18 range. I don't play brand favorites but I do like one other play my billfold. I cant see spending 20k for what I do with my bike. That's just me. If another rider wants to spend that for the Harley its his money and choice. I have no issue with it. I just like motorcycles and riding one. Al

[ponch]

If you take this price thing and put it in perspective they both drop about the same in my opinion. The Kawi is only 16K to start with. I've seen leftovers for 12K 2013 Voyagers. I've also seen the used ones in the 9 to 12 range with low miles and the price is regulated by what year it is. The Ultra starts out in the 20's but they don't hold that range to long as I know I have seen them 2 yrs old in the 16 to 18 range. I don't play brand favorites but I do like one other play my billfold. I cant see spending 20k for what I do with my bike. That's just me. If another rider wants to spend that for the Harley its his money and choice. I have no issue with it. I just like motorcycles and riding one. Al

It depends on the comparison. If you are used to drinking Cutty Sark, may be 18 year old Macallan isn't worth it based on price alone. It all depends on the requirements of the individual. Sometimes spending extra makes sense, sometimes it doesn't. :shrug:

[BigAl1952]

Ya but booze aint thousands of dollars apart. And life is to short for cheap booze:cheers:

[Dieago62]

This is why I always buy clean used Mine was cheep and warranty until 2016 even my last Harley was 2 years old. I get tired of toys to quick to be sensible for me to buy new. I also buy from an individual not a dealer. But then again I twist wrenches for a living so not too awful worried there.

[Ipack]

[QUOTE=paul;638816]Don't ride the Victory.......Unless you're ready to purchase. Power, handling, lots (and I mean lots) of room to be comfortable, storage,



I have every intention of riding one , Ive owned a road king and as much as I miss the beautiful thing it was a pain in the A$$ to keep on the road . Many issues , I also have a buddy that has a 09 road glide , he has had enough go wrong that he tired of it as well it will be sold or traded new spring and he will most likely go with a Gold Wing . I think its sad Harley builds a beautiful machine and a bike one can own with pride , but sadly the motors just don't hold up and with the emissions changes in 2017 I believe the issues will continue .....for now my voyager is just fine , in the next few yrs if things pan out financially as I expect ...a new Victory will be in my garage pending some test rises and research ....but who knows if the popularity of the voyager continues to grow and Kawasaki polishes it some I may very well stick with it and buy one new ..... Mine was bought used a 2012 with 17k on the clock ....after fixing some of the first owners bonehead modifications the bike is just fine .

[redjay]

I owned a Nomad for 3 years and a Voyager for 3 years and lost about $2500 on each bike when it was time to sell.

Less than $1000 a year in depreciation is good in my book.

Buy a used bike in the Fall at a good price and then sell in the Spring when demand is high.

[CBO Vaquero]

I have owned a lot of bikes through out my years of riding and your going to take a hit on ANYTHING you sell used otherwise there is no incentive to not buy new. Trading in is the biggest hit and selling outright the loss is determined on how bad you want "it" gone. My biggest loss was on a recent new purchase of a 2013 CanAm spyder and the law suit that followed and the replacement 2014 spyder that got sold in 3 months at a HUGE loss.
Oh,.. and the Kawasaki klunky trans to copy Harley, don't forget about the law suit Harley filed because Kaw copied their "sound"!

[paul]

Rubbish
Perhaps, given your unquestioned authority and expertise, you could tell us all just which other V-Twin motorcycle aproaching, even possibly exceeding 900 pounds would qualify for the same statement? Being the world's foremost leading authority on, well, virtually everything, this should certainly be enlightening.

I don't ride a Nomad anymore although I DO still own two of them. That being the case, I only show up here on occasion to share some chatter and a few opinions with some of those with whom I've grown up here. I live where I ride mostly. Just don't find it necessary to be a constant presence in an effort to impress the newbs. But, to each his own. Thank you for your forward thinking criticizm. You guys have a good time here talking about your Nomads. I know I certainly did. Thanks for the memories boys.!

[hlknvlcn60]

I run Kawasaki performance 20/50 in my Vaquero and the tranny seems to love it. It shifts really smooth for an "industrial build" type of tranny built to handle big torque for the long haul. I am only 5'9 and before I purchased the Vaquero, I sat on a 2013 Road Glide that was already a one year non-current bike they were trying to get 22,500 bones for. It, even at my eight felt cramped and small and the instrumentation was hard to read with small increments and the gauges were in the wrong place, the speedo and tack being on the handle bar and the others up on the fairing. Kawasaki genuinely puts out a good effort for comfort and leg room and my Vaq delivers. I paid 12 grand for it new and with a full 6 year warranty.

[KURT44]

Looked at New Road Glide Ultra Limiteds a couple a weeks ago. Dealer had 4 of them in the showroom. In my mind that`s what is comparable to the Voyager. (liquid cooling, hydraulic clutch, cruise control and frame mounted fairing.) Of course the Voyager also has 4 valves per cylinder and more rear suspension. Sure the Glides have more electronics for gps and phone, maybe worth 500-1,000 more. Cheapest one was 28,300. I kinda said to myself WTF! and I don`t swear much and quietly walked out. A high milage Harley doesn`t have any resale either and I already have 31,000 on the Voyager and counting. Sad part is I would like to buy an American made bike, but won`t happen at those prices. To each his own!:cheers:

[ponch]

Looked at New Road Glide Ultra Limiteds a couple a weeks ago. Dealer had 4 of them in the showroom. In my mind that`s what is comparable to the Voyager. (liquid cooling, hydraulic clutch, cruise control and frame mounted fairing.) Of course the Voyager also has 4 valves per cylinder and more rear suspension. Sure the Glides have more electronics for gps and phone, maybe worth 500-1,000 more. Cheapest one was 28,300. I kinda said to myself WTF! and I don`t swear much and quietly walked out. A high milage Harley doesn`t have any resale either and I already have 31,000 on the Voyager and counting. Sad part is I would like to buy an American made bike, but won`t happen at those prices. To each his own!:cheers:

I thought the list was 25-26K? At 28K, there are better choices. Shit, at 25-26K there are better choices. It looks like a neat bike, but It's out of my ballpark right now. If you want a cruising tourer that does almost everything well for a bit less, the Victory's are the way to go. If someone handed me 28K and said I had to buy a bike, I'd probably get a K1600GT.

[redjay]

I thought the list was 25-26K? At 28K, there are better choices. Shit, at 25-26K there are better choices. It looks like a neat bike, but It's out of my ballpark right now. If you want a cruising tourer that does almost everything well for a bit less, the Victory's are the way to go. If someone handed me 28K and said I had to buy a bike, I'd probably get a K1600GT.

For me it would probably be a Victory Cross Country.

[ponch]

For me it would probably be a Victory Cross Country.

Well, in my scenario it wouldn't be my money. If it was, I'd probably find a demo or lightly used 2014+ RT. I love the performance of the big K bikes, but they have a lot more complexity and I wouldn't own one without a lot of warranty. I like the way cruising tourers look, but the extra weight is baffling. It's possible to make a lighter bike, but it takes some engineering that some don't want to spend the money on.

[redjay]

I think it is your knowledge of the BMW brand and the issues with them that you have posted that have put me off owning a BMW, even though we are talking about someone handing us the money to buy one.

[ponch]

I think it is your knowledge of the BMW brand and the issues with them that you have posted that have put me off owning a BMW, even though we are talking about someone handing us the money to buy one.

I'll be blunt honest about almost everything. I don't like carry water for anyone except close family and even then I have my moments. People get wrapped up in their political and/or religious beliefs (Yes there is bike religion) and paint themselves into a corner defending it like a first born. I just don't get that. Lots of times it's best to take in the warts and all. No one makes a bike as performance balanced as a beemer, but what's more insulting that something substandard/not right on their bikes is how they react to them. Luckily, they've gotten better at admitting their mistakes (a little) and they tend to correct the problems most of the time in succeeding years. Japanese bikes offer a lot of value, but there's a reason for it. There's no free lunch as they say. With HD you have to accept that form will win over function more than it should. It's the anti-BMW bike. Funny thing is they both have a lot of passionate adherents. I love the way HD and Indians look, but I don't fancy spending that kind of dough to gain 300lbs and nothing else useful in the exchange or better put, nothing gained in the exchange except the weight. The difference with a Vulcan and to a lesser extent with a Victory is that they don't hit the pocket as hard.

[redjay]

I am not into the retro look and therefore Drifters and Indians do not appeal to me.

[ponch]

I am not into the retro look and therefore Drifters and Indians do not appeal to me.

I like the Chieftain, especially in red, but the indian has it's own particulars, like tons of heat. After perusing the owners manual, I found that the specify 20w-40 for the oil, which is an odd weight. Guess who sells it? The other thing was 30K mile belt change intervals. Belts should last a lot longer than that. In some ways, shaft drive is easier to live with. Nothing to change unless it breaks and gravel roads don't pose a problem either. Victory makes a decent bike, but the looks are an acquired taste. Too much Ness influence. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with in the next couple years.

[BigAl1952]

Amsoil makes 20w 40 motorcycle oil. I like BMW's and would consider a used one but not without a warranty and a dealership that's worth a damn. We have none in my area. Best dealer here is a Harley, Honda ,Yamaha dealer and there used selection is never very good. Al

[ponch]

Amsoil makes 20w 40 motorcycle oil. I like BMW's and would consider a used one but not without a warranty and a dealership that's worth a damn. We have none in my area. Best dealer here is a Harley, Honda ,Yamaha dealer and there used selection is never very good. Al

The problem with amsoil is that it's not readily available in retail auto stores. If it was, I'd at least try it. The avon strategy just doesn't work for me.

A warranty on a used BMW isn't a bad idea, depending on the model. My advice is if you buy a used BMW, get one that is at least 3 model years in for that model as by that time the bugs have been worked out. Mine is the last year of the hexhead, 5 in, so it'll be as good as it gets for that model I guess. With the K1600, I wouldn't buy anything older than 2014. Zurich and Pinnacle offer warranties and from what I have read, those are the ones to go with. It won't be cheap though.

I've heard mixed things about some BMW dealers in CO. I've heard the one in Grand Junction is ok, but mixed stuff for the ones nearer to Denver. There are good ones and they tend to be the mom and pop ones, which are starting to go away. Bob's, Morton's, Engel's, Ozzie's, Max's and Hansen's are good. Gina's was good, but got sold to a larger multiline. I think Lone Star in Austin? was another one that was good, but got sold. In my state, Iron Horse in Tucson seems to get consistent good reviews, but it's 120 miles away. I have two that are close, but both are owed by large corporate dealers and I have mixed feeling with dealing with them and have heard things with regards to sales that make me think twice plus about ever buying anything from them. There are other's that are good too, but there are some that aren't. YMMV.

[BigAl1952]

If you go to the amsoil website and check your area there are places to buy the oil. You can also buy it online and have it shipped direct to your door. There are places in my area who do sell it on the shelf. Just a thought.

[ponch]

If you go to the amsoil website and check your area there are places to buy the oil. You can also buy it online and have it shipped direct to your door. There are places in my area who do sell it on the shelf. Just a thought.

Not anyplace local with me. I have an O'Reilly's a mile from my house and if I mail order, it's usually a package deal from Beemer Bone Yard, which isn't often. If they were serious they would sell in the major retail chains. Not sure why they don't. They wouldn't be anymore expensive that Royal Purple, which seems stocked on the shelves (I don't use it, but use Mobil 1 in general).

[cactusjack]

If you go to the amsoil website and check your area there are places to buy the oil. You can also buy it online and have it shipped direct to your door. There are places in my area who do sell it on the shelf. Just a thought.

I believe my Harley dealer has Amsoil on the shelf, along with Mobil 1, Redline, and of course - genuine HD oil. I prefer Mobil 1 synthetic for the crankcase and Redline for the primary and tranny.

[ponch]

I believe my Harley dealer has Amsoil on the shelf, along with Mobil 1, Redline, and of course - genuine HD oil. I prefer Mobil 1 synthetic for the crankcase and Redline for the primary and tranny.

who is your dealer?

[motomi1]

We can all complain about bikes, resale value, technology etc but the bottom line is the big four Japanese motorcycles are the most reliable and technologically advanced unless you need a lot more noise than just the wind and your pipes!
To complain about resale is a non-starter for me as I've always felt that if you have to worry about re-sale you shouldn't bother with a motorcycle of any brand unless you are a collector of rare old bikes.
The final truth to me is all bikes are machines and it doesn't matter what the brand, including BMW, they will fail under certain conditions be that age, misuse, tired parts or warranty items.
I have owned about 30 bikes in the 56years I've been riding and the three bikes I disliked most were: 1968 BSA Shooting Star 441, 1966 HD Sprint 350, and 2011 Kawasaki Vaquero 1700. The first two were undependable junk and the third I did not like for the hot weather action or lack thereof (it lost power in the heat of Arizona summer). The good part of the Vaquero was that I never doubted that it would start and get me to my destination it frustrated me because it didn't do it effortlessly.
I have switched to a Victory Vision and thus far have loved it for wind control, power, handling, fuel mileage and the fact that it looks far different than most bikes on the road. Time will tell whether this is an exceptional bike or not but the one thing I am sure of is that its unlikely to have high re-sale and I don't care!

[ponch]

We can all complain about bikes, resale value, technology etc but the bottom line is the big four Japanese motorcycles are the most reliable and technologically advanced unless you need a lot more noise than just the wind and your pipes!


Most reliable, yes, most technologically advanced, no. I will add that Victory did as well as any Jap bike in this year's CR survey.

[cactusjack]

who is your dealer?


Chandler H-D. Last time I went in there for an oil filter (a long time ago) I looked at their oil and was surprised they carried anything other than HD brand.

[ponch]

Chandler H-D. Last time I went in there for an oil filter (a long time ago) I looked at their oil and was surprised they carried anything other than HD brand.

Yeah, I looked up at Amsoil and it was there. O'Reillys had a sale on VTwin last month, IIRC. I had already changed my oil and the 15w-50 is a good substitute if I need to. I haven't ridden too much this year anyway.

[BigAl1952]

We can all complain about bikes, resale value, technology etc but the bottom line is the big four Japanese motorcycles are the most reliable and technologically advanced unless you need a lot more noise than just the wind and your pipes!
To complain about resale is a non-starter for me as I've always felt that if you have to worry about re-sale you shouldn't bother with a motorcycle of any brand unless you are a collector of rare old bikes.
The final truth to me is all bikes are machines and it doesn't matter what the brand, including BMW, they will fail under certain conditions be that age, misuse, tired parts or warranty items.
I have owned about 30 bikes in the 56years I've been riding and the three bikes I disliked most were: 1968 BSA Shooting Star 441, 1966 HD Sprint 350, and 2011 Kawasaki Vaquero 1700. The first two were undependable junk and the third I did not like for the hot weather action or lack thereof (it lost power in the heat of Arizona summer). The good part of the Vaquero was that I never doubted that it would start and get me to my destination it frustrated me because it didn't do it effortlessly.
I have switched to a Victory Vision and thus far have loved it for wind control, power, handling, fuel mileage and the fact that it looks far different than most bikes on the road. Time will tell whether this is an exceptional bike or not but the one thing I am sure of is that its unlikely to have high re-sale and I don't care!

I like your write up and your right I don't care either. The resale went out years ago with bikes when one could buy a Harley and often get more in trade than he paid for it. I will say one thing about the Jap bikes they have forced other companys in the past to step up to the plate and make a bike that is dependable and will compete with them. I rode Jap bikes when it was looked down upon by anyone on a Harley. Some guys still do. I never felt that way even when I owned a Harley. I just like motorcycles and riding them. Al

[smokier]

...I rode Jap bikes when it was looked down upon by anyone on a Harley. Some guys still do. I never felt that way..That about covers it.:cheers: Just ride :tup:

Ride safe,
Smokier

[motomi1]

Most reliable, yes, most technologically advanced, no. I will add that Victory did as well as any Jap bike in this year's CR survey.

The problem there is when you have technological advances but reliability becomes an issue and this is where the Japanese seem to excell.
The CR issue listed the Victory as close but still less reliable than the Japanese but quite a bit above the reliability of BMW, Ducati, and Triumph. Only time will tell whether this information will hold true in my case.

[ponch]

The problem there is when you have technological advances but reliability becomes an issue and this is where the Japanese seem to excell.

The CR issue listed the Victory as close but still less reliable than the Japanese but quite a bit above the reliability of BMW, Ducati, and Triumph. Only time will tell whether this information will hold true in my case.


The reliability issues on bmws isn't the high tech stuff, but usually vendor related and always bean counter related. Ducati and bmw make the highest tech bikes.

[gcsteve]

I am a fan of all the cruisers mentioned on this thread. I however I would say to jus test ride an Indian. Even if you don't like the look. My dealer gave me the keys(or I should say fob) to his personal ride and said see you later. The ride is excellent and the torque is unmatched for stock. The Victory is faster to 60mph but roll on above that is all Indian. Mine was very hot for first 700 -800 miles but now after stage one and 4000 miles on it, it is same if not cooler than the Nomad was. I always wanted a Victory but the engine noise always turned me off. I know you can get pipes and all but I like to hear my music. The Indian motor sounds better to me stock. Also you can browse all the used Harleys there. My dealer usually has around 3 on his showroom floor.lol

[gcsteve]

Indian does want you to buy their oil. It comes in a kit with 5 1/2 qts semi syn. with filter and crush washers. Its about 10 dollars more than I was spending changing oil in the Nomad. The down side is Indian is charging astronomical fees for work done such as changing tires ect. 400+ in some situaltions.The good news most are reporting getting 15,000 miles + out of the rear tires. Average for the Kawasakis seem to be less than 10,000.

[ponch]

Indian does want you to buy their oil. It comes in a kit with 5 1/2 qts semi syn. with filter and crush washers. Its about 10 dollars more than I was spending changing oil in the Nomad. The down side is Indian is charging astronomical fees for work done such as changing tires ect. 400+ in some situaltions.The good news most are reporting getting 15,000 miles + out of the rear tires. Average for the Kawasakis seem to be less than 10,000.

$400 labor? Wow. That's a lot. Taking the wheels off my bike is easy and can be done on the center stand. I just bring the wheels to a motorcycle tire shop. I can't imagine it taking 4 hours to change tires and then there's the belt change interval. That's short. I like the bike, but cost of ownership and figuring out what I can do and what I can't figures into it with any bike and then there is the pros/cons list...I really shouldn't complain about my beemer so much.

[gcsteve]

That included the price of the tire too. But it still seems pretty steep.

[ponch]

That included the price of the tire too. But it still seems pretty steep.

For just the rear? A set for me is around $425 if I bring the wheels.

[gcsteve]

This guy got a screw in his tire and posted this......
The*new tire was $350, labor came to $100, and luckily for me, they found that they didn't have an official 'Indian' inner tube in stock, I said lucky, because 'Indian' inner tubes are priced at an astounding $90 each....but they*managed to find a 'non-Indian' tube of the proper size somewhere else in town for $30.
so I will be getting my own tires and bring the wheels in to have them changed. Probably go to Kawasaki dealer for that. They were always fairly priced.

[OldSchool]

It boils down to what's important to you. Is it the ride or is it owning just the right motorcycle. That choice is yours. Its your money, you do with it what you please. The Harleys for me are not a good fit. They are too compact. I just rode the 2016's and they have either gotten "more" compact or I have expanded, or a combination of the both. But one thing Harley does have that I have to believe all other motorcycle companies envy is their network. So compare it to joining a country club. You are paying for the privilege of having the greatest dealer and parts network in the world. None of the other manufacturers can come close. No ones going to take that away from them anytime soon. H.O.G. is also a solid active membership that can be drawn on anywhere.

[ponch]

This guy got a screw in his tire and posted this......
The*new tire was $350, labor came to $100, and luckily for me, they found that they didn't have an official 'Indian' inner tube in stock, I said lucky, because 'Indian' inner tubes are priced at an astounding $90 each....but they*managed to find a 'non-Indian' tube of the proper size somewhere else in town for $30.
so I will be getting my own tires and bring the wheels in to have them changed. Probably go to Kawasaki dealer for that. They were always fairly priced.

I used to go to SKF in Suffolk.

[gcsteve]

I used to go to SKF in Suffolk.

I had forgot you were a long Islander once. Looks like you are in much better riding country now. I hate being trapped by the city traffic. I got stuck in 2 hour traffic a few weeks ago at 11 p.m. its ridiculous.

[ponch]

I had forgot you were a long Islander once. Looks like you are in much better riding country now. I hate being trapped by the city traffic. I got stuck in 2 hour traffic a few weeks ago at 11 p.m. its ridiculous.

We get traffic here, but nowhere as bad as in NY and it doesn't last long. After 9am it's a 4-6 lane ghost town until 3:30-4PM.

I lived on LI for over 40 years. Grew up in North Bellmore and lived in Lynbrook and Oakdale before moving to Iowa and after 9 plus years we moved to AZ.