cutting out in 2nd gear

[jakegrr]

Hey guys, I have a 2012 vaquero that Ive put 47k on, for awhile now its been cutting out in 2 nd gear, and only 2nd gear. I have replaced the battery, spark plugs air filter put in 2 bottles on fuel injector cleaner. It cuts out at peak torque (3700) then continually til redline. Ive checked connections on the injectors check that everything was tight for any air leaks but Im stumped. Every other gear runs fine so I dont think its fuel filter, my only guess is new injectors? ANy help would be appreciated, thank you

[hayes]

Sounds like you have a bent shift fork. I had the same problem on my VN2000.

If you stay light on the throttle in 2nd gear, will it cut out? Or does it only happen when you are accelerating heavily? Also, try keeling the gear shifter pressed down when you shift into 2nd gear (keep your heel pressed on the lever as you accelerate through 2nd) and see if it happens.

[MAS Tequila]

Yep.

MT

[BandC]

Jake, did you mean the engine misses in second gear or it pops out of second gear?

[hayes]

Jake, did you mean the engine misses in second gear or it pops out of second gear?


When my 2k did that, it felt like an engine miss. If it weren't for this forum, I'd have been hunting engine problems instead of transmission problems.

[RACNRAY]

It is common for those that have never felt a gear jumping out and then back into engagement to assume it is a 'cutting out" problem. 2nd gear on all skoots is the most common to fail and it always starts with the engagement dogs becoming worn and unable to hold the torque of acceleration. The gears "separate" due to the gear moved by the shift fork being "pushed" out of engagement of the fixed gear. That gear pushes outward against the shift fork which acts as a spring and pushes the gear back into engagement.

Collateral damage will be a bent shift fork, galled hard chrome plating on the fork's contact ends, and quite often a chip or metal worn away on the shift drum groove.

I have found that in minor cases of engagement dog wear I can undercut the dogs and/or slots to repair the damage, and establish a new surface with the undercut angle. But the frequency of repairing worn dogs is one outofa hundred as most gears come in so bad thy can't be saved.

The fix is to replace the 2 gears associated with second gear, the shift fork and drum. Seriously consider sending the new gears to my shop and having the new gears undercut to minimize this ever happening again.

RACNRAY

[jakegrr]

Thanks guys for the input, it happens when im at full throttle, if I feather the throttle I can get through the powerband without it happening. I replaced the clutch thinking it was slipping, thats the feeling I get.

[redjay]

[QUOTE=jakegrr;624110], If I feather the throttle I can get through the powerband without it happening.


Fuel starvation ? Rev limiter ?

[hayes]

[QUOTE=jakegrr;624110], If I feather the throttle I can get through the powerband without it happening.


Fuel starvation ? Rev limiter ?


Nope. 2nd gear is disengaging.

[Gypsy Dragon]

[QUOTE=redjay;624144]


Nope. 2nd gear is disengaging.

That's what it sounds like...

[RACNRAY]

Thanks guys for the input, it happens when im at full throttle, if I feather the throttle I can get through the powerband without it happening. I replaced the clutch thinking it was slipping, thats the feeling I get.

Clutch slippage IS NOT gear dependent. "Feathering" the throttle means you are not loading the engagement dogs enuff to cause the gear to pop out of engagement. Gears (specifically the engagement dogs and/or slots) have a threshold in how much tork they can handle. When you exceed that point either with rpm and/or the amount of throttle opening then the disengagement of the gear set occurs.

Sorry to say but complete engine removal and teardown is needed. If ur skoot still under warrantee, this is something that is covered under warrantee. Last summer up at the VRA rally in Pennsylvania I was asked to ride a Vaq with the same symptom. By the owners description I already knew it was a second gear problem and my ride backed that up. He had one month left on his warrantee and it was repaired under the warrantee.

RACNRAY

[CBO Vaquero]

Clutch slippage IS NOT gear dependent.
RACNRAY

Neither are fuel injectors, if their bad their bad in all gears. Replacing fuel injectors is expensive guesswork. Have someone else ride it and verify the trans but I think that is where the problem lies, it really does feel like a misfire.

[id-man]

I have the same problem and what RACINRAY describes is my understanding of the issue...worn dogs on the 2nd gear that slip out of their hole during hard torque. I've been living with it almost a year now and it has not gotten any worse but I definitely baby it through 2nd gear. It's only been an issue once when I was trying to accelerate up an uphill onramp with a passenger on board - I couldn't give it any goose in 2, had to shift to 3 and lug it up that hill as quick as I could to attain merging speed. I'll probably ride it that way this season too and hope either the time and motivation to fix it come to me, or I find a good deal on a different bike and let this one go cheap. The cost to hire it done doesn't make financial sense on a 2004 with 45k miles.

[dshelly]

I have the same problem and what RACINRAY describes is my understanding of the issue...worn dogs on the 2nd gear that slip out of their hole during hard torque. I've been living with it almost a year now and it has not gotten any worse but I definitely baby it through 2nd gear. It's only been an issue once when I was trying to accelerate up an uphill onramp with a passenger on board - I couldn't give it any goose in 2, had to shift to 3 and lug it up that hill as quick as I could to attain merging speed. I'll probably ride it that way this season too and hope either the time and motivation to fix it come to me, or I find a good deal on a different bike and let this one go cheap. The cost to hire it done doesn't make financial sense on a 2004 with 45k miles.

I'd go with a 1600 engine swap before I'd drop the cash down to repair that one. Others here have done it, I believe it's a direct swap.

[id-man]

I'd go with a 1600 engine swap before I'd drop the cash down to repair that one. Others here have done it, I believe it's a direct swap.I believe it is too, and I would much prefer that option if I could get a good price on a motor with low mileage. They seem scarce and ones I have seen are either sketchy (busted fins and mounts) or well over 25k miles, and asking close to whole-bike prices. I don't want to own a parts-bike. But hey it's not all bad I was talking to a guy with a real nice looking older Road King who paid $5k just to have a new chrome Baker transmission installed.

[RACNRAY]

I have a customer that brought in his 1600 with the second gear scenario. He too thought it was a misfire/cutting out thing, I rode the skoot and told him it was second gear and gave him an estimate for the repairs.

He fixed the bike himself, sold it and bought a 1700 Nomad!!! He is so much happier with the 1700 so that seems to have been the best route for him.

RACNRAY

[redjay]

A bent shift fork on a 1700 is the first I have heard of.

1500/1600's there has been quite a few, mostly 1500's.
Probably because they sold more of them.

[recumbentbob]

A bent shift fork on a 1700 is the first I have heard of.

1500/1600's there has been quite a few, mostly 1500's.
Probably because they sold more of them.

It was a 1600 with bent shift fork.

[hayes]

Hey guys, I have a 2012 vaquero


It was a 1600 with bent shift fork.


According to the first post, it's a Vaquero... That's a 1700.

[MAS Tequila]

According to the first post, it's a Vaquero... That's a 1700.

And the transmission is the same design, just with an added gear.

The 1-2 shift fork issue has never been addressed.

MT

[RACNRAY]

Shift forks are NEVER the cause of gear problems. Just think how many engines and trannies I have had apart and in front of me in over 38 1/2 years of werkin on skoots. Shift forks are really robust parts and would take someone REPEATEDLY STOMPING on the shift lever trying to put a gear into engagement WITHOUT the engagement dogs/slots allowing full engagement, WITHOUT the engine running!!! This MIGHT bend a shift fork.

Bent shift forks are the COLATERAL damage from a gear jumping out. Every time the gear jumps out it is forced against the shift fork which is held in it's position by the shift drum. The shift fork must bend away from it's static position as the gear slips out, the fork acts as a "spring" and will push the gear back into engagement. Thus bent forks and galled hard chrome plating on the fork tips.

RACNRAY