ABS brakes vs. No ABS brakes

[jesse d]

I am one of those unlucky dudes that bought a used voyager that didnt have ABS brakes. Any info on how much it would cost to have them put on,and is it really worth it.:shrug:

[Top Cat]

:DGrab the beer and popcorn, here we go.
I'll start, it has been shown in some motorcycle mags by professional riders the bike can be stopped in a shorter distance with out ABS.
Next post will be saying the professional rider under controlled circumstance is not the same as under duress in a street panic mode.
While this is true, I personally would rather be in charge of my own motorcycle than have some computer riding it for me.
Two years ago, while going 55 MPH, I missed a jeep with a trailer who pulled out in front of me on a side road. Yes I locked the rear wheel for an instant but recovered fine and swerved to miss the trailer.
No ABS for me thank you very much.

[HwyRider]

I'm not sure that you can retrofit the bike for the ABS system without replacing the ECU and a lot of other electronics and wiring.

[Old Bear]

http://www.focusst.org/forum/attachments/focus-st-vs-competition/14910d1374852611-focus-st-vs-cobalt-ss-tc-emoticon-eating-popcorn-mh900437984.jpg

Brakes? Nah, they kill mileage, only good for slowing you down! Who wants to do that?

[cactusjack]

:DGrab the beer and popcorn, here we go.
I'll start, it has been shown in some motorcycle mags by professional riders the bike can be stopped in a shorter distance with out ABS.
Next post will be saying the professional rider under controlled circumstance is not the same as under duress in a street panic mode.
While this is true, I personally would rather be in charge of my own motorcycle than have some computer riding it for me.
Two years ago, while going 55 MPH, I missed a jeep with a trailer who pulled out in front of me on a side road. Yes I locked the rear wheel for an instant but recovered fine and swerved to miss the trailer.
No ABS for me thank you very much.

Blah, blah, blah. I'll never own a bike without ABS again.

It's a factory option, I'm not sure it can be retrofitted and even if it could, the cost would be prohibitive.

[Boscoe]

I wish my Voyager had anti-lock brakes. Next bike will. At 52 years old, I will take all the computers I can get to help me think.

Technically, you can do anything with enough money or time. However, I am certain you would be better off trading bikes if you really want anti-lock brakes.

[jesse d]

beer and popcorn in hand.......ok.....I really wanted and believe in ABS however when my friend offered this awsome voyager to me for a price that i cant repeat ( It was verrryyyyyyyy low ) I saw no ABS........i cried ................:) but i love it anyway.......

Jesse D

[cactusjack]

Since you're new here...I crashed and totaled my 2007 Nomad in 2011 and am 100% convinced ABS would have prevented it. I made sure the bike I replaced the Nomad with had ABS and have seen it in action and will not have another non-ABS bike.

I know a rider can stop a bike without ABS, but it's an advantage worth having in my opinion.

[ponch]

Blah, blah, blah. I'll never own a bike without ABS again.

It's a factory option, I'm not sure it can be retrofitted and even if it could, the cost would be prohibitive.

+100. ABS rocks.

[ponch]

beer and popcorn in hand.......ok.....I really wanted and believe in ABS however when my friend offered this awsome voyager to me for a price that i cant repeat ( It was verrryyyyyyyy low ) I saw no ABS........i cried ................:) but i love it anyway.......

Jesse D

If you really want ABS, trade up. Since you got it cheap, you can't lose.

[George]

Hey Jesse
I've owned 7 bikes all without abs haven't missed it one bit, all my vehicles but one have had abs and I wish they didn't. To each there own just my opinion :shrug:

[ahernandez74]

I've had ABS save me a couple times actually. It's definitely a thing that you want when theres rain or any gravel. It really helps save you. I mean pumping the brakes is definitely okay, but having ABS prevent you from locking up can definitely save a LOT of people from their falls and crashes.

[Cajunrider]

Had a very old gentleman pull out directly in front of me and my wife this past Saturday morning. I was doing about 35 mph in town when he came out of a parking lot just past the intersection I was going through. It was so close that I had to grab the front brake along with the rear. I felt the ABS working to keep the wheels from locking up and skidding. I stopped about 4 feet from his passenger side door and dropped my bike onto the left side crash bars when it came to a stop. My wife was nearly on my shoulders. I have no doubt that I would have went into a slide and fallen much sooner without ABS. Both tires would have undoubtedly locked up. No damage to the bike or injuries other than a strained lower back trying to keep the bike from taking it's first fall to the bars. The old boy kept going.

[redjay]

I would not got to the expense of trying to put ABS on a non ABS bike.
If not having ABS concerns you trade it in and get a bike with ABS already installed from the factory.
Better still keep the one you have.

[petenomad]

My friend who has been riding for 40 years, had his first unplanned get off at about 35 mph Sunday morning when a dog ran out into the street in front of him. ABS would have easily saved him. You can practice hard braking and you should - but panic braking is actually different.

Now, none of this is what the OP asked. If you want ABS, buy a bike with ABS. My friend will find out how much it will cost to fix his Ducati Multistrada tomorrow. He actually is considering trading his slightly damaged bike on a year old leftover Multistrada with ABS.

[Dave]

If you really want ABS, trade up. Since you got it cheap, you can't lose.

But will the difference in price pay for a skin graft? :D

[highwayman2011]

My Voyager has ABS, works great in the rain.

[ponch]

But will the difference in price pay for a skin graft? :D

I don't think he'll get skinned.

[jesse d]

Yes.........this is a very effective subject to talk about. I can understand the panic braking and how it can cost u your life. It almost cost me mine. For now i can keep on trucking with what i got. I will give ABS a look harder on my next scoot... Thanks for all the input

Jesse D
2010 voyager
no ABS.....:(

[dank]

Tim, I have to disagree with you on this one, but only because you are WRONG. :shrug: It has been shown that a professional rider making a perfect stop can stop a motorcycle in a slightly shorter distance than occurs with ABS. In that you are correct. However, from there on your logic is faulty. A rider making a perfect stop will stop a bike with ABS and one without ABS in exactly the same distance, because the ABS will never kick in. The ABS just helps to save your bacon when you over brake in a panic stop or under wet/slippery road condition. If you brake perfectly it never engages, so the stopping distance is exactly the same as that for a bike without it. When it does kick in, you have gone beyond perfect application of the brakes into sliding the tire, and ABS then improves the rate of stop because it keeps the tire from sliding, which is much less effecient than the brakes at converting your kinetic energy into heat through friction. In your example, you would actually have stopped faster with ABS because it would have prevented the short duration skid and kept you more efficiently stopping durng that period.

[jesse d]

Ok........i want everyones input on this. How is the right way to correctly brake a cruiser in a emergency stop situation going about 65mph............ok i have released the flood gates come on everyone............:).........:).........

Jesse D
2010 voyager

[Boscoe]

beer and popcorn in hand.......ok.....I really wanted and believe in ABS however when my friend offered this awsome voyager to me for a price that i cant repeat ( It was verrryyyyyyyy low ) I saw no ABS........i cried ................:) but i love it anyway.......

Jesse D

Yep. 2011 Voyager with 14k miles, 3 years of GoodTimes plan left for $9000. KBB and NADA were over $13,500. Couldnt let that one get away.

[dank]

Ok........i want everyones input on this. How is the right way to correctly brake a cruiser in a emergency stop situation going about 65mph............ok i have released the flood gates come on everyone............:).........:).........

Jesse D
2010 voyager


Channel Fred Flintstone and drag both feet. :tup:

[jesse d]

10-4 drag both feet.............got it...LOL

[HwyRider]

Hard pressure to the rear brake and moderate pressure to the front brake while keeping the bike going straight.

[jesse d]

WOW... thats way different than what i have heard........75 front brake.....25rear brake...........Is there a correct riding standard for stopping a large cruiser on a dime.......????????????

[Top Cat]

It has been shown that a professional rider making a perfect stop can stop a motorcycle in a slightly shorter distance than occurs with ABS. In that you are correct.

However, from there on your logic is faulty. A rider making a perfect stop will stop a bike with ABS and one without ABS in exactly the same distance, because the ABS will never kick in.

I don't know Dan, those two sentences seem to me to contradict each other.
How can a professional rider making a perfect stop, stop a motorcycle in a slightly shorter distance than occurs with ABS when in your second example you say a rider making a perfect stop will stop a bike with ABS and one without ABS in exactly the same distance, because the ABS will never kick in.

[Top Cat]

Hard pressure to the rear brake and moderate pressure to the front brake while keeping the bike going straight.

Which will result in the rear tire locking up and you running into what ever you are trying to keep from hitting or worse, sliding down the road on your side just behind the sliding motorcycle.
Most of your pressure should be on the front brake lever as this is where you get most of your stopping power from.

[HwyRider]

Because you get the most stopping power from the front brake is why you put more pressure on the rear. If you slam on the front brake the rear end will come around.

[glwilson]

WOW... thats way different than what i have heard........75 front brake.....25rear brake...........Is there a correct riding standard for stopping a large cruiser on a dime.......????????????

I am not sure where he came up with hard brake on the rear.:hmm:

Any advanced course will tell you to brake both at the same time with progressive braking on the front to stop. For those that do not believe me... just look it up. No where does it say to "hard" brake on the rear -- ever. Sorry but their statement is dead wrong...

[Monkeyman]

Because you get the most stopping power from the front brake is why you put more pressure on the rear. If you slam on the front brake the rear end will come around.

Sorry but no. A sliding tire will ALWAYS lead.

My Vision is the first bike I've had with ABS. It's already saved my butt a few times. I doubt I'll own another bike withOUT it. In my case, I didn't have a choice. All new Visions have ABS, standard. I wanted a Vision, I got ABS.

Try panic braking a big bike going around a curve on wet leaves without ABS. Hope you enjoy the ditch. Do it with ABS and you can stand on the brakes and............slow down. Totally uneventful, just the way it's supposed to be.

[ponch]

I don't know Dan, those two sentences seem to me to contradict each other.
How can a professional rider making a perfect stop, stop a motorcycle in a slightly shorter distance than occurs with ABS when in your second example you say a rider making a perfect stop will stop a bike with ABS and one without ABS in exactly the same distance, because the ABS will never kick in.

The key thing though is that no one here is a professional rider and braking on street isn't under the ideal conditions of testing. A better test would be the same bike with ABS turned off, if possible or the same model, one with and one without ABS.

[ponch]

I am not sure where he came up with hard brake on the rear.:hmm:

Any advanced course will tell you to brake both at the same time with progressive braking on the front to stop. For those that do not believe me... just look it up. No where does it say to "hard" brake on the rear -- ever. Sorry but their statement is dead wrong...

It also depends if the brakes are linked or not and if they are linked, how they are linked. Bikes that are partially linked, the front brake actuates the front and rear, the rear just the rear. There is no advantage to braking as on a bike with other types of brakes.

[glwilson]

It also depends if the brakes are linked or not and if they are linked, how they are linked. Bikes that are partially linked, the front brake actuates the front and rear, the rear just the rear. There is no advantage to braking as on a bike with other types of brakes.

Wasn't referring to ABS brakes... linked or not. I was referring to bikes with regular, non-ABS brakes.:cheers:

[ponch]

Wasn't referring to ABS brakes... linked or not. I was referring to regular brakes.

I would think that with non-linked and fully linked ABS brakes that both front and rear brakes would have to be applied together to stop optimally.

[HwyRider]

Sorry but no. A sliding tire will ALWAYS lead.

My Vision is the first bike I've had with ABS. It's already saved my butt a few times. I doubt I'll own another bike withOUT it. In my case, I didn't have a choice. All new Visions have ABS, standard. I wanted a Vision, I got ABS.

Try panic braking a big bike going around a curve on wet leaves without ABS. Hope you enjoy the ditch. Do it with ABS and you can stand on the brakes and............slow down. Totally uneventful, just the way it's supposed to be.

This was for an unlinked system on a highway. Did it 3 times this year.

[HwyRider]

I am not sure where he came up with hard brake on the rear.:hmm:

Any advanced course will tell you to brake both at the same time with progressive braking on the front to stop. For those that do not believe me... just look it up. No where does it say to "hard" brake on the rear -- ever. Sorry but their statement is dead wrong...

I was talking simultaneously.

[Yellow Jacket]

I would suggest that everyone read these articles on braking:

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=030&Set=

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=029&Set=

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=064&Set=

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=230&Set=

http://www.msgroup.org/Articles.aspx?Cat=2 (This will give you the entire list of braking tips on the Motorcycle Safety Group website.)

I would strongly encourage that some time be spent on that site.

[glwilson]

I was talking simultaneously.

Got it... Wondered why you would have said that...:cheers:

[dank]

I don't know Dan, those two sentences seem to me to contradict each other.
How can a professional rider making a perfect stop, stop a motorcycle in a slightly shorter distance than occurs with ABS when in your second example you say a rider making a perfect stop will stop a bike with ABS and one without ABS in exactly the same distance, because the ABS will never kick in.

Tim, no contradiction. A perfect stop that goes right up to but does not exceed maximum tire friction for both tires is possible, unlikely but possible, and in that case it doesn't matter if it is an ABS equipped bike or non-ABS bike because the ABS won't kick in. Both bikes wold stop in the same optimally short distance. The concept of the professional rider beating ABS is speaking of a "perfect" stop versus over braking and letting ABS control the brakes, in which case the pulsing does give you silghtly less effeiciency than a perfect stop that never skids a tire and always uses the absolute highest possible force on the brakes. so when those tests say a non-abs can beat and ABS bike, they are meaning a prefect stop on the one versus engaging the ABS on the other. They ignore the situation where the ABS bike is perfectly managed and also would stop in the optimal distance. Whether or not you have ABS on the bike makes no difference in braking distance unless you over brake, and in that case it helps.

[highwayman2011]

After having a bike with ABS I like it on a bike, not so much on my car.

[HeyJoe]

When I was in the market for a new Vaquero, ABS was included. I did a little research on it and was pretty impressed with the technology. As it happened, I found a 2012 Vaquero without ABS but it was not a hard decision to go with the 2012. Maybe I'm a little old school but I don't put all my trust in technology, and I guess it helps that I do an experienced rider course every spring in all kinds of road conditions so the tipping point in going with non-ABS was my confidence and trust in my own experience and riding skills. :tup:

[Top Cat]

Maybe I'm a little old school but I don't put all my trust in technology, the tipping point in going with non-ABS was my confidence and trust in my own experience and riding skills. :tup:

I couldn't have said it better.

[Texas nomad]

Stopping a large cruiser like a Vulcan Nomad at 65mph is something you must experience to believe! As a former police motor officer we go through extensive slow cone and speed work during school. I have been instructed by both IPTM and Northwest certified instructors....the guidance is always in emergency braking your first brake is compression braking! Roll off the throttle( dump it), down shift quickly to first gear as you pull in the clutch, as you apply firm pressure to. The front brake, while maintaining a firm position. On the rear brake. Folks, if you use more than is necessary on the rear brake, you'll find yourself in rear wheel lock. This is NOT where you want to be!! You can truly stop this vulcan fast using this technique. I do it all the time in my ride home (when I know traffic is clear behind and in front of me). I make myself conduct sessions of emergency braking at various times just to make sure I stay fresh with my skills. Riding like a motor cop can be done if you take the time to practice! Find a fairly level parking lot and practice e braking at speeds ranging from 20-40 mph... You will come out of these exercises a much stronger rider!

[minst7877]

Locking up a back brake will turn into a very bad day very quickly. And I do know this from experience and will probably involve much pain.

DC