New Tire problems-it's been an education

[unwind2]

Where do I start! Geezzz. This is going to be a long thread.
Called the Kawa dealer who I bought my Nomad from and who has serviced my bike. Always thought he knew what he was doing. Told him I wanted the Metz - front 150/80 16;back 180/70 16. I told him the back is a radial and that was what I wanted. He balked...I never heard of putting a bias on front with radial on back before but if you say you've heard it done and that's what you want I'll get it. So he ordered the tires. Now he is almost 3 hours away...tires came in - rain-thunderstorms all week 60-90% chance rain each day....so we trailer the bike to him. Leave it at closing time, get a motel room and come back next day about 10 am. Bike is ready. I'm standing there looking at the bike as they are putting it on the trailer thinking boy that front tire looks BIG!
Well we load up and about 45 mins down the road I keep telling my hubbie how big the front tire looks....we get into a 'spirited' discussion and he finally pulls over to let me get out and look cause I keep saying I wonder if the tire is wrong. Sure enough he put the 180/70 on the front and the 150/80 on the back!!!!!!

So back we go....unload the bike go eat lunch somewhere and come back...bike ready again. This time the 150 is on the front. He said he got mixed up cause the 150/80 says 'rear tire'. I said that can't be right....he said no must not be. We load up the bike AGAIN and leave again. Now going down the road again and I'm reading the print off info from metz web sight and have the dudes sticker off the front bike. Now here's what he did:
the 150/80-16 m/c 71h tl is a front tire, the 150/80B 16 m/c 71h tl is a 'rear tire'. I have on the front 150/80B 16 m/c 71h tl....REAR Tire!!!! Great! On the metz sight it says the following....

'arrow- the arrow indicates the rotation direction of the tyre accordingly to its fitting position (front or rear). In case a rear tyre is fitted on a front wheel, the tyre has to be fitted reverse to the rotating direction indicated on the sidewall. Fitment of front tyres on rear wheel is not permitted.'

I'm NOT trailering it back to the dealer! I've had enough of his idiocy. There is a custom chop shop in town who puts tires on bikes. I've talked to him. He said bring the bike out and he will look and see which way the rotation is and reverse it if I want. He said he did not actually think it would hurt if I did not reverse it but might make a bit of a difference in the way the bike handles. He also said that actually the tire may last longer. He said guys mount tires in every direction you can imagine and he did not think it would be dangerous - ie make the tire come apart of anything like that - just may give me a different feel. :-/

Now I can't believe that idiot kawa dealer had a 'radial' 180 on the front and the 'bias' 150 on the back. Unbelievable!

I'm not riding it until I take it to him. Like I said it's been an education. I'll wait until he sees what needs to be done then I'll call the kawa dealer and tell him what he did and what I had to do to fix it.

Oh on the way the the dealer the first time, highway down to one lane due to resurfacing, tractor trailer in front of us hit an orange barrel that came flying at us. Hubbie had to swerve real sharp, two of my 3 straps came loose on the bike and it was leaning to the right being held up by the one strap on the back crash bar. We eased over to the shoulder and restraped. http://s2.images.proboards.com/tongue.gif http://s2.images.proboards.com/tongue.gif http://s2.images.proboards.com/tongue.gif...I need a drink!

PS. Thanks dank - I emailed dank - he kept going out and looking at his tires in the rain and dark and emailing me back. that helped confirm I have a rear tire on the front. But I don't think the dealer 'reversed the rotation' - of course not - I don't think he knows anything about tires.::)

[jussmatt]

Holy Cow!!! Talk about a DUMBA$$ for a Dealer!!! Sorry to hear about the troubles, but glad you've got somebody who's willing to help ya out. Let us know how things turn out....and make no doubt, I would give the dealership a piece of my mind!!!!

[unwind2]

JussMatt - Can you believe - he even tried telling me that if I had drove the bike with the 180 on the front he said 'oh you wouldn't have been abel to tell the difference.' .......yeah right! ::)

[rlfaubion]

That's really to bad you had to deal with such incompetence... When you get out on your bike, you'll soon forget that idiot

[davidjones1]

that has got to be one of the dummest dealers around your doing the right thing by getting this taken care of before riding. and the trailer deal thats just your nomad wanting off the trailer and on the rode lol. I am glad that it work out and your bike was not hurt.
ride safe

[dantama]

So did your husband decide that your intuitive, "that's not right" instinct is worth paying attention to? :)

Sounds like you won't have to worry about it for another 6-10,000 miles.

Whoa! Tough story Unwind.

I stayed home from work today to change my own tire. It was a lot of exercise (but I needed it) and I'm pretty sure I got it on the right rim too. ;)

[Yellow Jacket]

Good grief Unwind! I think I would be looling for a new dealer. I did a dealer location search on the Kawasaki web site and found 5 dealers that handle motorcycles within 75 miles. I don't know if one of these listed is where you went but you may want to check them out. Jeez, they couldn't be any worse than the one you went to! Dang, sure am sorry for your lousy experience.

The distances listed are from Dyersburg:

CARLOCK POWERSPORTS KAWASAKI
Distance: 40.12
57B CARRIAGE HOUSE DR
JACKSON, TN 38305-3934
USA
(731) 410-8816 Phone
(731) 410-8821 Fax
Motorcycle
Watercraft
Recreation Utility Vehicle
ATV
Utility
AWA Support Dealer

ATV CYCLE WORLD KAWASAKI
Distance: 60.00
2832 E MALONE AVE BLDG A
SIKESTON, MO 63801-8613
USA
(573) 472-4002 Phone
(573) 472-5116 Fax
Motorcycle
Watercraft
ATV
Utility
Small Engines
Recreation Utility Vehicle
AWA Support Dealer
KAWASAKI ENG SVC-ALL OEMS

KAWASAKI OF MEMPHIS
Distance: 63.93
6412 SUMMER AVE
BARTLETT, TN 38134-5966
USA
(901) 372-8210 Phone
(901) 372-2720 Fax
Motorcycle
Watercraft
ATV
Utility
Recreation Utility Vehicle
AWA Support Dealer
Team Green Program

RAYMER MOTORSPORTS KAWASAKI
Distance: 65.20
2615 HIGHWAY 218 BYP
PARIS, TN 38242-6633
USA
(731) 642-1646 Phone
(731) 642-4141 Fax
Motorcycle
ATV
Utility
Recreation Utility Vehicle
Team Green Program

TOWN & COUNTRY KAWASAKI
Distance: 73.32
1915 STATE ROUTE 94 E
MURRAY, KY 42071-9401
USA
(270) 753-8078 Phone
(270) 753-9879 Fax
Motorcycle
ATV
Utility
Watercraft
Recreation Utility Vehicle
AWA Support Dealer
Team Green Program

unwind, you shouldn't have to ride with a rear tire on the front..... even with the arrow direction reversed. I've heard of people doing this on other bikes, but tht's not the point (besides it's a belted tire) .............. you paid for the correct Front tire and should get it. IMHO

[unwind2]

unwind, you shouldn't have to ride with a rear tire on the front..... even with the arrow direction reversed. I've heard of people doing this on other bikes, but tht's not the point (besides it's a belted tire) .............. you paid for the correct Front tire and should get it. IMHO

You know, Nico, I've been toying with the thought of making HIM order the correct tire....send it to me- then when I get the other tire off and sending the rear tire to him -COD. (Or letting the guy at the local chop shop order it - but if I do that the I may not get my money back from the dealer for the other tire.) Don't know if he will agree to that or not but he should - ordering the right tire and sending to me. I'm guess the bias tire that I should have got versus the belted bias is probably cheaper too.

Got an ENGLISH email in response from metz....they of course are going to tell me to not drive the bike and get the correct tire cause they don't want a lawsuit. I guess I could drop the 'lawsuit' word or 'attorney' word to the dealer?!

[macmac]

I didn't know this...."150/80-16 m/c 71h tl is a front tire, the 150/80B 16 m/c 71h tl is a 'rear tire"....... WOW, that just saved me big time..

I did know about reversing the rear when it is a front, and I belive that is to disperse water.

I agree you didn't get what you paid for and I think you should get the tire you did pay for.

More or less this is the way it is with dealers. Pretty much they are forced to do shop work to be a dealer, but the way they run the shop is poor. Sales is all that matters, and they don't care how bad the techs are, which usually are just kids with no idea what they are doing...

No Theory at all.

[unwind2]

I didn't know this...."150/80-16 m/c 71h tl is a front tire, the 150/80B 16 m/c 71h tl is a 'rear tire"....... WOW, that just saved me big time..

I did know about reversing the rear when it is a front, and I belive that is to disperse water.

I agree you didn't get what you paid for and I think you should get the tire you did pay for.

More or less this is the way it is with dealers. Pretty much they are forced to do shop work to be a dealer, but the way they run the shop is poor. Sales is all that matters, and they don't care how bad the techs are, which usually are just kids with no idea what they are doing...

No Theory at all.

That's another reason I posted my experience - so it won't happen to others. To disperse water...yikes! didn't think about that one....humm?

[unwind2]

So did your husband decide that your intuitive, "that's not right" instinct is worth paying attention to? :)

Sounds like you won't have to worry about it for another 6-10,000 miles.

ALWAYS listen to a womens intuition!

[kawgirl]

Just found this thread. Never mind what I asked in the PM to ya Unwind2. That's an incredible story! WOW.

[donoller]

dealer in memphis is is good try them or give me a holler i can change tires

[Idaho]

macmac is correct about shop work being secondary for some of these clowns. That's why I do my own as much as possible. IMHO you should not only get the correct tire but you should get it from the dealer you have been going to, take it to someone else to get it mounted and make the first dealer pay for proper mounting and gas for all of your back and forth trips and pay for your time to boot. That is the only way this guy will learn his lesson. Small claims court if he does not agree. Also since you are in contact with Metzler you might get some support from them to help straighten out their "dealer". I'm sure that Metzler does not want these issues associated with their tires.

[macmac]

Idaho, maybe in a ideal world.. The thing is this dealer will never admitt to the error. Part of why is because they plain old don't want to admitt to any error, and then a part is they don't know, that they don't know. So as far as they are concerned they didn't know they did anything wrong.

Probably 95% of all dealers for bikes, cars, and anything else like them are only concerned about the fast buck, and that fast buck comes from sales. Anything not in sales is a waste of time.

So the showroom is most important, and next to that parts, the shop? The shop is the necessary evil.

I am not saying she can't get that done just the way you say, but the investment in time will be high.

It might be the best thing she can do is get them to get for the tire she paid for, and go with someone who knows what's what, and get that tire mounted for free..

Personally I'ld remove the wheel from the bike after marking rotation, and bring just the wheel.

I do 99% of all my own work.. That 1% so far in all these years can be summed up to one buddy working on my bike because I had broken ribs... namely Caddman, and 2 dealers.

The first dealer after the crash was so bad, that they ruined parts otherwise not damaged after a crash, and I had parts coming loose all the way from Nebraska to Cal. I refused to sign off with Progressive in Rapid City, where they wanted me to, and the day I did in Cal, I found more problems while the agent was right there!

And then there was a U joint problem under 'good times'. Cadd and I had the ft end down and the swingarm out for lube and tires when we discovered that u joint. The whole bike had to be put back togehter and riden to the dealer, and still they managed to install a wrong hea pipe gasket. We found that removing just about everythiung the dealer did, to still check out the swingarm, and install the tires.

Dealers are a no win situation if you ask me. I don't know how people can trust them with their very lives..... but they do.

This is a quote from ronayers.com under metzeler tires: "Front tires feature rounded tread profile for smooth, neutral steering Rear tires feature flatter tread profile and larger contact patch for better traction and mileage"

It is my oppionion that you will notice a difference in handling running a rear tire on the front. You can tell the difference between a rear and front tire just by looking at them. The front has more of a crown and the back looks flatter. I personally wouldn't run the rear on the front just because I believe the steering would be more sluggish. I think you're dealer is a fool for saying you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I guarentee you would be able to feel the difference running a 180/70 on the front!

Sorry about your experience. You would think a dealer could manage a simple act such as ordering tires. For future reference if you order from ronayers.com they tell you weather its a front or rear tire next to every tire size.

[ringadingh]

Its pretty sad when a dealer screws up like that multiple times. Thats why I like to do as much of the work myself on all my stuff.
When I bought my tire a few months ago, I checked it at the store to make sure it was the correct tire. That should have been the first thing the dealer did as well. Putting it on the rim backwards is easy to do, but checking it is just as easy. They should have caught that before it left the shop. You learned a lot about that dealer, don't go back. Just think, if he can't even install a tire, how good are they at fixing other problems and assembling new bikes.

[dantama]

I may not really know what I'm talking about, but here is what I thought the directional arrows were about.

On a rear tire, the most force is generated by acceleration trying to twist the tire back to front.

On a front tire, the most force is generated by braking trying to twist the tire in the opposite direction, front to back.

I thought that tires were constructed to deal with the extra stress in one direction vs the other, and that is why it needed to go a certain way depending on where it was mounted.

[jussmatt]

JussMatt - Can you believe - he even tried telling me that if I had drove the bike with the 180 on the front he said 'oh you wouldn't have been able to tell the difference.' .......yeah right! ::)

Hey...just catching up... I wouldn't mess with the "Service Manager" at all... Contact the General Manager or Owner of the Dealership to discuss your experience. It's not like you're trying to get over on anybody...quite the opposite!! You're looking for a Service Manager who should be qualified enough to assist your in ordering tires and can differentiate FRONT from REAR!!! THE FIRST TIME!!!!!!!!!

As for the directional arrows.... Dan/Macmac...you guys are a LOT smarter than I am when it comes to the physics and fundamentals of tires (not to mention the rest of the bike) but I do know that the manufacture puts them there for a REASON!! If they're developed and made to perform a certain way, then that's the way they should be installed!! I just highly doubt that I would want to run the wrong tire in the wrong direction or on the wrong wheel simply because some unqualified mechanic said it would be ok..... not sure I conveyed my thoughts correctly...but maybe y'all get my idea.... :-/

[oldbikers]

I was typeing when I read Donoller's message I was going to tell you that I could change your tire but he is closer, I am 50 miles south of Memphis. But I would go back to the dealer and get the correct tire and maybe then he won't make the same screwup with someone else.

[unwind2]

This is a quote from ronayers.com under metzeler tires: "Front tires feature rounded tread profile for smooth, neutral steering Rear tires feature flatter tread profile and larger contact patch for better traction and mileage"

It is my oppionion that you will notice a difference in handling running a rear tire on the front. You can tell the difference between a rear and front tire just by looking at them.

Wolfman - I was thinking the same thing - I didn't know how to described but to me the tire that is now on my front (rear tire) is less rounded. GEEEZZZZ!!!!!

[dragon57]

WOW!!!
That is amazing!
And to think, you get to deal with morons like that, AND pay huge prices for the privledge!!
I feel for you!

[unwind2]

Update-Called the dealer and told him what HE did. I told him I did not want to drive back up there (go thru the hassel of trailering it up there again!). He is ordering the correct tire and sending it to me. He said he understands and apologized several times.

Funny thing I have the guzzi also. It has Metzs on it. I'm going to see what size the rear tire is on it - maybe this tire will fit it and I will keep to put on it when it's ready for one.

Update-Called the dealer and told him what HE did. I told him I did not want to drive back up there (go thru the hassel of trailering it up there again!). He is ordering the correct tire and sending it to me. He said he understands and apologized several times.

Funny thing I have the guzzi also. It has Metzs on it. I'm going to see what size the rear tire is on it - maybe this tire will fit it and I will keep to put on it when it's ready for one.


Way to go!!! http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[donoller]

kawasaki of memphis talk to della

[Top Cat]

Update-Called the dealer and told him what HE did. I told him I did not want to drive back up there (go thru the hassel of trailering it up there again!). He is ordering the correct tire and sending it to me. He said he understands and apologized several times.

Funny thing I have the guzzi also. It has Metzs on it. I'm going to see what size the rear tire is on it - maybe this tire will fit it and I will keep to put on it when it's ready for one.
Do I understand this correctly? Dealer is sending you the right tire , no charge, and letting you keep the wrong tire which you paid for?
I agree with everyone else, don't ride that bike witha rear tire on the front, I don't care who tells you it would be OK. http://s2.images.proboards.com/shocked.gif

[unwind2]

TC - I called him and told him I did not want to trailer the bike back up there and would he just send me the correct tire and I would get the other tire back to him. He said yes as he profoundly apoligized over and over. I want the other tire in hand and then will talk to him about the money differecent etc...and was going to see if the tire fit my guzzi. Unfortunately my guzzi rear tire is a 150/70-17 so it won't work. I do have metz on the guzzi. I really don't have any use for the tire but I'm not going to get in a hurry to send it to him until I get the correct tire and see what he does toward my expense of having another tire mounted. I'll let you guys know.

I don't know if he can resale the tire as new (if he is honest with a customer - he should tell them how come he already has it) or if metz will take it back. I doubt metz would give him a refund - darn tire has been on my back wheel, now on my front wheel and soon to be off the wheel again - plus I plan on driving it very slowly and carefully to the chop shop which is 3-4 miles away to have the other tire put on when it arrives.

If my hair wasn't already turning gray - this would do it! :-/

[Idaho]

Way to go unwind. At least it sounds like the dealer is willing to try to make things right. After you get the new tire mounted you might want to put together an accounting for your extra expenses. Cost to remount the correct front tire, mileage back to the shop the second time at 51 cents per mile. See if he is willing to cough it up. He may be so embarrased that he will come through in hopes of this going away.

Maybe a 1500 owner will buy it off you here

[unwind2]

Maybe a 1500 owner will buy it off you here

That's what I was thinking - I would offer it up here first for a bargain.

[kawgirl]

Glad to hear things are working out.

... I have a rear tire on the front. But I don't think the dealer 'reversed the rotation' - of course not - I don't think he knows anything about tires...

This begs the questions:

Did he even put the front wheel back on in the correct direction?* Did he loosen & re-torque the final drive gearbox after torquing the rear axle? Did he torque all the brake caliper bolts down correctly? Are the hoses routed correctly & not twisted or anything? Did the wheels even get ballanced? Did he clean and re-grease the rear drive splines? Did he damage anything in the whole process?

(Did you get the driveshaft & swingarm lubed? This should be done at each rear tire change IMO.)

When a dealer screws up something so easy as tire mounting It makes you wonder about everything else he touched in the process. If you're not qualified to check & judge these things, I think you'd be wise to have the bike worked over by someone who is.

(*On the 1500 FI, you can mount the front wheel backwards. I don't know about the 1600, as the axle's different.)

[unwind2]

CaddmanQ

He told me he changed the 'rear end' oil as it looked dirty? I don't know if this is the same as the drive shaft oil etc....

I know it concerned me that he may have gotten in a hurry the second time around as he was most likely flustered. Thanks for the interjection. Now to find someone else that I will feel confident in...before this happened I thought he was pretty good!

Once this gets settled - I'll tell you guys who the dealer was just in case anybody uses these folks so they can really watch what they are doing.

When I was in Vermont I got new tires on my Guzzi. A week afterthis was done heading back home to TN just outside of New York I lost my rear brake.....The cause...the caliber came loose and swung around and broke my rear brake line. Had to drive the bike with just front brake from New York to Nashville. I defiantly cringe now every-time I have tire mounted!

From these two experiences I have definitely learned what might can happen/go wrong during a tire change. Just wish I had the skills/equipment to do this stuff myself. Maybe I can learn if I lived close to someone who did his own bike tinkering. Or at least learn what to check/look for. Anybody want to do a seminar at the Eastern Rally?

Well, at the vety least get out some wrenches & see if he got the brake caliper bolted on tight before you ride it. Yours is the third story I've heard of this same sort of thing happening after a tire change. In one case the caliper ripped into the rear wheel spokes, causing the rider to go down at high speed. In the other case the rider was stopped at the top of a steep hill holding the rear brake when the bike just suddenly rolled back a couple feet & made a big *clang* as the caliper smacked into the muffler. That stopped him from rolling further.

[coloradontexas]

dang, and i just dropped the bike of for tire change. Aint gonna sleep right tonight.

[dogdoc]

if this is a kawa dealer I would report the peoblem to higher authorities, IE kawa hdq. Just a thought.

[skeeter]

dang, and i just dropped the bike of for tire change. Aint gonna sleep right tonight.

That's funny if your not the guy who just dropped his bike off.

[coloradontexas]

appreciate the humor skeeter. Had to go into the shop and check on the baby. LOL. Gonna be a long weekend. LOL.

[unwind2]

dang, and i just dropped the bike of for tire change. Aint gonna sleep right tonight.

Hopefully this is a very isolated incident. You know I guess the guy could not even read - it is printed very plainly on the tire I have on the front right now 'rear tire'.

[unwind2]

if this is a kawa dealer I would report the peoblem to higher authorities, IE kawa hdq. Just a thought.

I wondered if Moma Kaw would be interested. I told myself they'd just say something like ' each dealership is individually owned and we're not responsible for work done in their shops....sorry for your experience.... etc....'.

[unwind2]

Got the CORRECT front tire yesterday. Will get it mounted first of week. Any of you folks in the Kentucky area that want the name of the dealer who put wrong front tires on my bike x2 - pm me on this board and I'll tell ya. Golly gee it says on this tire 'front'. ;)

[unwind2]

I NOW HAVE THE CORRECT TIRE ON THE FRONT WHEEL!!!!!!

I drove the bike to the shop with the rear tire on the front on it and of course back home with the front tire on the front...and I can report to all....I could tell a difference in the way it felt. So I don't recommend driving with a tire made for the rear on the front. ::)

I good to go now! http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[Yellow Jacket]

Praise the Lord and pass the bisquits! I'm sure your're glad that is over with.

[Top Cat]

I'm glad you got this straightened out unwind2.
But of course you didn't listen to me. I thought I asked you not to ride the bike with the back tire on the front.
Women, they never listen http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif