Judges Washers (more info)

[Scoot]

Has anyone ordered a set of these washers? How long did it take for him to get back to you? Been over a week now still nothing from him. Anybody have a extra set they want to sell. Was hoping to change clutch spring out next week on one of my off days.

DO you think I really need to put those washers on?

[socwkbiker]

What the hell are they? ???

[Scoot]

What the hell are they? ???

My bad i just assumed everyone read's Gadget's like I do.
http://www.gadgetjq.com/clutch_spring_replacement.htm

It's some washers that make the clutch spring last longer. LOL http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif
If no one heard of them I guess I dun need em ...huh

[Idaho]

Interesting reading there Scoot. I have noticed that my clutch seems to slip when accelerating to interstate speeds. I thought that it was just my imagination, now I'm not so sure. Has anyone else noticed what seems to be a slipping clutch?
Idaho

[zoom45]

Yes. the slipping is because the clutch spring is worn in the center of the spring. The metal get's paper thin on the inner part of the spring where it makes contact. If you wait too long the metal tabs on the spring could break off and fall in the engine. I noticed mine slipping when I had to pass a slow car. It just wouldn't go like it use to. I chanced it and went on a planned ride to Florida. By the time I got back, I was lucky to get it to accelerate to highway speeds. Once you get it to speed it's not bad after the load is off. It's better to change it before it get's too bad.
Zoom45

[Idaho]

Okay, bike is only two months old and I already have a maintenance project to do.... Guess that I will start buying the parts.
Idaho

[jmorrow]

Yes. the slipping is because the clutch spring is worn in the center of the spring. The metal get's paper thin on the inner part of the spring where it makes contact. If you wait too long the metal tabs on the spring could break off and fall in the engine. I noticed mine slipping when I had to pass a slow car. It just wouldn't go like it use to. I chanced it and went on a planned ride to Florida. By the time I got back, I was lucky to get it to accelerate to highway speeds. Once you get it to speed it's not bad after the load is off. It's better to change it before it get's too bad.
Zoom45

Zoom45, How many miles were on your Nomad when it started slipping?

[ringadingh]

Judge is out of town alot, but he will return your message eventually. I think the washers are $25.00 pair. I used them when I did my clutch a couple of weeks ago, along with a Mean Streak spring. It made a Huge difference compared to my old clutch spring. The washers take the wear instead of the spring so it will last much longer. Also you will now be able to bump start the bike if need be. Its a pretty easy job to do yourself, just take your time and make absolutly sure the washers are installed in the correct order, or they will break the second you pull the clutch lever ( trust me I found out the hard way) My bike started slipping about 38,000 miles which from what Ive heard is very reasonable life span, many guys are replacing them far sooner. Also be careful when you put the new gasket on, it easy to chew it up on the gear at the bottom front of the crankcase, because the gear is very close to the edge of the cases.

[zoom45]

I had about 17,300 on it when I noticed the first slipping. I changed it at 18,000. It had 39,000 the second time. I used a new Mean Streak spring the second time. I didn't try the Judges washers.
Zoom45

[dogdoc]

the Judges washers also change the stock clutch slipping too zero. in order words when you downshift if your engine revs is out of wak with your speed then when you downshift your rear tire will lock up. the stock slippage prevents all this. So there is a price to pay for the non-slip washers.

[Scoot]

the Judges washers also change the stock clutch slipping too zero. in order words when you downshift if your engine revs is out of wak with your speed then when you downshift your rear tire will lock up. the stock slippage prevents all this. So there is a price to pay for the non-slip washers.

Not really worried about this part. LOL it would be nice to be able to push it off to crank (have been guilty of leaving switch on while having a few cold ones.) Try finding a jumper cable out in the sticks :)

I noticed when my bike is cold and I pass someone in 4th or 5th I could hear the rpm's go up but speed stayed the same. Then I'd get down the road several mile and nail it again and couldn't make it slip. I bought parts for $48.50 mean streak spring, gasket, and header gasket. Going to change out next Thursday (off day). Any advice to get the clutch nut off I don't have a air wrench.

Oh I've got about 36,000 miles

[zoom45]

Lot's of patience, a good socket the right size with a pull handle or ratchet and a big hammer. It would be tough without a good air or electric wrench. Gadgit's and Ole Sarge's web page has some good info on how to do it.

http://members.tripod.com/oldsarge/clutch_spring_replacement.htm

Zoom45

[Idaho]

Great additional info there Zoom. Lots of pix that are not on Gadgets page. I just sent an email to Judge to see about buying a set of washers. Then off to a dealer to get a Mean Streak spring and assorted gaskets. At least I have an electric impact wrench.

[dogdoc]

Everybody ususally changes to a mean strak spring when they do it, what year of mean streak(same as the year of your bike)??? Is it neccessary to do the springs same time? Just thinking ahead. looks like alot of crap to remove to get to it. When would peoples clutch be going out(slipping) at 15,000 and some good to 40,000? hard shifting??

[blowndodge]

Sitting at a light in gear with the clutch pulled in. Fast takeoffs. speed shifting. Wrong oil.

[scion0]

Sitting at a light in gear with the clutch pulled in. Fast takeoffs. speed shifting. Wrong oil.

BD have you done this upgrade yet? If not, would you?

[dogdoc]

Good points BD: Will a clutch wear out faster if you sit at lights with it pulled in or should I be in neutral at every light??? thx

[scion0]

Good points BD: Will a clutch wear out faster if you sit at lights with it pulled in or should I be in neutral at every light??? thx

I've always been told to NEVER take it out gear at a light.. safety and all... but I have an AV fistula in my left forearm and sometimes my clutch hand starts to cramp badly (due to reduced blood flow to the hand I would guess).

[ringadingh]

The part numbers for the Mean Streak spring, cover gasket, and exhaust gaskets are available on Gadgets sight, where it explains how to change the spring. Using an impact gun on the big clutch nut makes the hardest part of this job a snap. I dont think there is much you can do to signifigantly extend the clutch spring life without adding Judges washer kit. It only costs about $70.00 for the required parts and a few hours of work, and then the spring will probably last as long as you own the bike

[spork]

I highly recommend the Judges washers. They really make the hook up quite amazing.

They are designed to take out the tourque limiting springs effects so there is a more direct connection to the drive line through the clutch.

I used the MS spring and judges washers and really liked the new ride.

I would not ever attempt this job without the impact driver of some sort. Find someone who has one or order one of the electric models off Harbor Freight or something like that.


Many have done the job without the impact and most ended up cussing through most of the job. I have seen on thread where the lodged pennies in the assembly and were able to back it off but not the recommended route.

[socwkbiker]

Not a problem ordering that spork...ummm...have you seen my garage though?

[blowndodge]

Ok boyz:

what affects "wearable" parts the most? Heat. Heat or Heat?

when you pull the clutch lever in what parts move? If you don't know the answer then you can't argue why you sit at the light with it in gear.

With the clutch lever pulled in, every wearable part in the entire clutch assembly is creating heat. Drive and driven plates are seperated slightly and rubbing together. throw out rod or gear arm is rotating at the speed of the engine at idle, making heat. From now on sit at light with bike in neutral with the clutch lever out forever after. Even in your cages do this. It's even harder on them.

Wear: you have two sets of plates in a clutch basket on a motorcycle friction and metal held under pressure by springs of various designs. The more you allow them to slip, like at a light or real fast take off with lots of slippage the more heat. Imagine what you would do if you had to tow a car with your nomad, lots of throttle and lots of clutching. Major heat and clutch plate destroyer.

Smooth takeoffs, get the clutch out early without slipping it much and neutral at lights should eliminate half of all clutch wear. Be sure not to use the wrong oil. I gave a sermon months ago about oil and types. search...

[dogdoc]

Thx again pastor brad

[blowndodge]

These are cruisers. They are meant to ride steady and slow. Low horsepower and high torque are murder on clutches if riding like a race bike. The high rpm race motors of today use a vastly different clutch design that holds together real well at stratopheric rpms. these are not torque monster motors but "spinners" Our chain breaking torque at 1500 rpms is murder on clutches. The mean streak springs, maybe Barnett plates and judges washers is what I would do if I abused my clutch and it needed replacement. I'd miss the rapid "slipper" style of the stock clutch because the way the bike slows down when banging down quickly is nice!

[scion0]

These are cruisers. They are meant to ride steady and slow. Low horsepower and high torque are murder on clutches if riding like a race bike. The high rpm race motors of today use a vastly different clutch design that holds together real well at stratopheric rpms. these are not torque monster motors but "spinners" Our chain breaking torque at 1500 rpms is murder on clutches. The mean streak springs, maybe Barnett plates and judges washers is what I would do if I abused my clutch and it needed replacement. I'd miss the rapid "slipper" style of the stock clutch because the way the bike slows down when banging down quickly is nice!



:-[Ok, let me play the dummy and ask... what is "slipping" the clutch in the example you gave above? :-[

[Scoot]

Well I went ahead and changed the clutch spring. Wasn't that hard. I did borrow a electric wrench, it got that nut off easy. From start to finsh took about a hour and half. Still waiting for a return e-mail from Judge been over 2 weeks now.

No where near as hard as I thought it was going to be.

Will add the Judge washers if he ever gets back to me

[blowndodge]

Best example I can give for excessive slipping of the clutch is to take off from a stop and by the time the clutch lever is all the way out your ready to shift to second. On the other hand a slipper type of clutch means that when you down shift and pop the clutch it will slip momentarily as to not to lock up the back tire. They were first invented for road racers so if they down shifted fast coming into a corner at like 125 mph the rear tire wouldn't skid and "step out" on them causing a "Nico". It's nice in a luxury type cruiser because you can come to a rapid stop banging the toe shifter down as fast as you can while poping the clutch handle and no barking or skidding rear tire! Downside is you cant "bump" start your bike if the battery is dead because the clutch will slip enough so the engin won't turn and they tend to wear out faster. It's a trade off.

[dogdoc]

Good explanation BD as we have come to expect of our Lord. Thx alot dude.

Thanks BD good info. Not knowing all the ins and outs about motors I always just assumed that clutch wear only happened at the friction point never when fully engaged or disengaged. I always admired how smooth the downshift was and always wondered why I don't get more of a jerk - now I know. I never really understood the "keep the bike in gear at a stoplight" mentality. I look at it this way: Take your pick weather you want to get rear-ended or quickly escape the would be rear-ender and bolt out into cross traffic and get side swiped. I'll take my chances with the rear-ender and save my clutch.

[scion0]

Good explanation BD as we have come to expect of our Lord. Thx alot dude.


Ditto!!! Thanks. http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif http://s2.images.proboards.com/cool.gif