torque cones

[chuckster131]

Which one's of these is everyone using. I have heard some talk about these and want to get educated a bit more.

[ringadingh]

I think there is one available on Ebay that the guys have been using.

[VulcanE]

Joe, do a Google search on "torque cones" or "anti-reversion cones" and you'll find a lot of info on them. Most of it will be on the HDs, because that's predominantly who uses them.

[mikeyger]

I like them!

[chuckster131]

I found quite a few listings on ebay, but didn't know if there was a paticular size we have to get or are they all the same?

[chuckster131]

I like them!

Which one's did you purchase?

[mikeyger]

javascript:; I got these if it goes through they are the one's that vulcan e also got! ultama, midwest ultama

[mikeyger]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MIDWEST-ULTIMA-EXHAUST-TAPER-VALVES-TORQUE-POWER-CONES-/110587782615?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19bf8ba5d7 one more time

[lonewolf]

yup, thats the same ones i have. dont really have a review on them yet, since winter doesnt want to give up around here.

[chuckster131]

Thanks
Will give them a go.

[usranger74]

"torque cones" - what do they do??

[chuckster131]

Received mine today and wondering how to center it up in the head pipe and which side does the new gasket go?

[mikeyger]

Vulcan e suggested to me and I did it and that was to wrap a little aluminum foil around the cone to help center them up. One person put a little jb weld on his.VulcanE and others just put them in the exhaust pipe with nothing It will work! Just put the gasket in the head and the cones in the exhaust pipe and mount as if they were not even there!

[VulcanE]

Vulcan e suggested to me and I did it and that was to wrap a little aluminum foil around the cone to help center them up. One person put a little jb weld on his.VulcanE and others just put them in the exhaust pipe with nothing It will work! Just put the gasket in the head and the cones in the exhaust pipe and mount as if they were not even there!

That is correct. ;)

[jandreu]

You guys using these with stock pipes? I see in the sig pics it looks like VulcanE has Cobras but lonewolf looks like stock debaffled.

Would not think the stock pipes need these, normally they are only a benefit with open exhaust.

[Jared]

I have yet to install mine. I'll be doing my swing arm maintenance and want to wait until then to remove my exhaust.

From what I have read, a few prople have used just a bit of foil, wrapped around the cone, to hold them in centered. Not too sure if it would matter too much if they were slightly off center.

They look like something you could easily make and design to better fit our pipes. Maybe that would be something else you could offer from your site.

[VulcanE]

You guys using these with stock pipes? I see in the sig pics it looks like VulcanE has Cobras but lonewolf looks like stock debaffled.

Would not think the stock pipes need these, normally they are only a benefit with open exhaust.

James, my pipes are Vance& Hines, and your right, these are not needed with the stock exhaust. The are designed for two reasons, 1) to get back low end torque you loose by really opening up the exhaust and thus you loose your back pressure, and 2) they are also called "anti-reversion" cones, this affects Sonic pulse, thermal pulse, and exhaust gas velocity.
* Sonic pulse. Think of this as a shock wave. This pulse travels through the exhaust and at the end of the pipe actually turns around and heads back toward the exhaust valve. The wave will also pull exhaust gas back along its path and if it reaches the open exhaust valve the gases will dilute the air/fuel mixture in the combustion chamber. Under the right (or wrong) conditions this wave will even push some of the air/fuel mixture back through the intake valve into the intake, a common occurrence with short drag pipes.
* Thermal pulse. Similar to sonic pulse, this is a wave created by the hot gas exiting the exhaust valve. The thermal pulse also reverses direction at the end of the pipe but unfortunately travels at a different rate, thus reaching the combustion chamber at a different time.
* Exhaust gas velocity. This is the rate at which gas travels through the exhaust system. The optimal velocity is 300 feet per minute. For the most part all stock engines require a 1-3/4" diameter pipe to maintain 300 fpm. Bigger is not always better and a larger pipe will actually slow this velocity thus restricting flow. One trick is to install anti-reversion or torque cones. When installed inside the head pipes these cones act to repel the pulse waves as they return to the engine and alter velocity as the gas passes through the narrower passage.

Disclaimer, I copied and pasted this ;)

[chuckster131]

Ok, Took off the pipes and set the cones in with a bit of silicon to hold them center, will reinstall tomorrow. That will hold those cones centered and make the job go easier.

[mikeyger]

I have ultimate baffles in my vance-hines pipes.I think vulcan e has the same set up!

[billmac]

I have found this back pressure info very interesting and just ordered some cones off the ebay site listed in this thread. My 06 1600 has TFI, Open Intake, and V&H.

I recently put on the V&H and the pipes seem to have stolen a considerable amount of low end torque. I don't need a dyno to tell me the bike does not perform as well as it did with the drilled original exhaust. The Nomad now feels sluggish. Apparently the TFI, open intake, and the drilled original exhaust was a great combo. I am hoping the cones will bring my power back and let me keep the sound.

Thanks for the info and appreciate any comments/recommendations on my set up.

[mikeyger]

billmac, The cones don't change the sound and as vulcan e says will give you back the "getty up an go"you lost!

[chuckster131]

Had a chance to get out today for about a 40 mile ride and I think the cones do add abit more low end...... 20.00 bucks well spent in my book..

[Jared]

Glad to hear they worked out well for you, Joe!

[dregier]

I just ordered mine today. I will see if they help with my V&H Baggers.

[oldbikers]

Do these fit up to the heads? The reason I asked as V & H baggers all ready have a problem cracking at the head pipe.

[chuckster131]

Do these fit up to the heads? The reason I asked as V & H baggers all ready have a problem cracking at the head pipe.

These fit right in the pipe, I used some silicon to keep them centered up. Worked great for that..... Then just put the pipes back on with new gaskets.

The problem area of the back pipe cracking is down from the top about 6-8" from the engine.

[Cajunrider]

Mine came in during the week. Went to the local HD dealer for gaskets and as my luck would have it, they were out of stock. Killed that project for today. Ordered a couple of sets off of Ebay for $19.00 with free shipping.

[dregier]

I put mine in this weekend and then took a 250 mile ride. I honestly can't tell much of a difference. Maybe a little less decelerating popping noises.

[oldbikers]

torque cones were designed for open pipes especially for the short drag pipes on a Harley.

[billmac]

I put mine in this weekend and then took a 250 mile ride. I honestly can't tell much of a difference. Maybe a little less decelerating popping noises.

Aw heck, hate to hear that. That also means Old Biker is right again. Nuts.

Guess I will put mine in. I bought em and it should not hurt anything.

[sharps45100]

You all say these cones fit inside of pipes. My question is there a flange that sits against the pipe flange. The reason i ask is i cut off the vance and hines brackets that bolt pipes to engine cause they were very thin and bent when torqueing to spec. I'm using the the two piece stock ones and they are thicker and barely have enough threads to tighten and torque. Extra thickness there and i wont be able to attach pipes unless i can get longer exhaust flange bolts. Anyone know if you can get longer bolts.

[mikeyger]

As vulcan e explained unless you have debaffeled or use the ultimate or similar baffle set up where you may have lost a little pressure you probaly will not notice any change. Idid not notice any loss with my vh pipes until I installed the shorter ub.

[dregier]

I have the VH Baggers without baffles (Nice and Loud) and love them this way. I put the cones in and took my ride but did not notice an improvement in low end power. I also didn't notice a drop in power when I removed the baffles.

Maybe I need to ride it harder to see? lol

[Jared]

I have the VH Baggers without baffles (Nice and Loud) and love them this way. I put the cones in and took my ride but did not notice an improvement in low end power. I also didn't notice a drop in power when I removed the baffles.

Maybe I need to ride it harder to see? lol

I have removed my baffles and taken it for a ride around the block. It was very noticeable from the first twist of the wrist.

Maybe you ought to do a home brewed speed test. Pick a sign or something 1/8 of a mile down the road. Start at the same spot and gun it. When you pass the sign, check your speed, then do it again with any modifications. This will give you an idea if you really are improving in performance or not.

[mikeyger]

Utah I am glad I got mine also!How's you're new bike coming along?

[Jared]

Utah I am glad I got mine also!How's you're new bike coming along?

I'm cutting and buffing the paint as we speak. :)

[Grump]

Which one's of these is everyone using. I have heard some talk about these and want to get educated a bit more.

Many moons ago there was quite a bit of controversy in the Harley community about 'anti-reversion cones," which I thnk are the same thing you are talking about. White Bros used to market their 2" pipes to the evo crowd and then, when the buyers realized they had LOST Horses, were desperate to recoup their losses, so White invented these CONES to meet that need.

The biggest problem is that people didn't understand how normally aspirated big twns breathe and what their unique requirements are. There are many articles on the net about this but here is the gist of it.

The best pipes for an 80 inch motor would be 1 3/4" diameter, exactly 40" long. There would be a crossover of equal diameter as close to the heads as possible. If you diagram this set-up, what you end up with is a picture of what the HD stock pipes look like.

The reason stock pipes don't work well is because of the EPA and how they measure polution AND noise. On the HD, intake and exhaust are on the right side of the engine. It gets pretty noisy on the right side, between the SWOOSH of the intake and the BOOM BOOM of the exhaust, the biles were too noisy to pass EPA guidelines.

So, the motor company over muffled the pipes (also the intake, but that;s another story) so that they are wimpy-quiet. Most riders like a bit more throatiness in there bikes' sound, so the first mod the new owner did was to hole-saw the pipes. This was an improvement, but not enough.

Pretty soon owners are buying "Short Shots." "Long Shots." "True Duals." "Thunder Headers." "Big Guns." Pipes with ceramic "No Blue" coatings etc. The bottom line is that all this stuff is gimickry. Dragsters run shorter pipes because they're better for high RPM. The reverse is true regarding longer pipes. For the best overall riding experience, the best pipes for 80"evos are 1.75" 40" long.

Bigger engines, like 100" Kaw's, need 2" diameter pipes. Cones won't make it run better, and you can prove it on a dyno. The best pipes you'll every buy are drag pipes close to stock length, 2" dia., rig some kind of x-over if you can, then put in a small baffle in each to suit your (and your communities) tolerance for noise.

The baffles play and important part in creating a little turbulence or "Back Pressure" in your engine. Big twins run better with a small amount of back pressure.

Instead of agonizing over "cones," go buy a set of cheap drags, good heat shields, then drill a 3/16 hole thru the tail end of the pipe diametrically, then insert a bolt and nut. Your HP will go up slightly.

If in doubt, go out to the track and ask the racers what they're running. You might be surprised!

[Monkeyman]

Ok. I'm thoroughly confused now. I'm about to put some V&H on my Nomad (with a chucksters intake and TFI) and probably some UBs (maybe...probably). I've heard over and over how much the bike will improve concerning hp and torque. Now everyone's talking about needing torque cones or I'll lose what I've gained and then some. Now someone else comes along and says they're not really necessary after all.

Does anyone have a dyno sheet showing the Nomad with V&H (or Cobra, I guess) with UB, with no baffles, then with and without torque cones all compared to stock?

I don't trust the seat of the pants meter much and I certainly don't have the money to buy all these, take it to a dyno then not use some parts.

Reasonably noisy and lots of torque is what I want. What's the proven combination? :?:

[Loafer]

Now I'm confused.....

[ringadingh]

Ok. I'm thoroughly confused now. I'm about to put some V&H on my Nomad (with a chucksters intake and TFI) and probably some UBs (maybe...probably). I've heard over and over how much the bike will improve concerning hp and torque. Now everyone's talking about needing torque cones or I'll lose what I've gained and then some. Now someone else comes along and says they're not really necessary after all.

Does anyone have a dyno sheet showing the Nomad with V&H (or Cobra, I guess) with UB, with no baffles, then with and without torque cones all compared to stock?

I don't trust the seat of the pants meter much and I certainly don't have the money to buy all these, take it to a dyno then not use some parts.

Reasonably noisy and lots of torque is what I want. What's the proven combination? :?:

Torque cones are not very expensive, you could try a pair and see how you like them. If it was me Id just stick with the V&H pipes and perhaps add the Ultimate Baffles if you want more noise, or shorten the stock baffles.

[Monkeyman]

More than noise for noise sake. I want a louder, throatier sound but I don't want to lose power. I'd like to make more power/torque (which is why I'm also spending the $$ for chucksters intake).

I don't mind trying a pair of torque cones but I hear conflicting stories (in this thread alone) about their necessity. I can't see spending the time and money if they really don't do anything. On the other hand, if they'll increase torque (or bring back the torque I should have had with the aftermarket pipes/intake), I'm all in.

[andyvh1959]

Old thread, but some really good discussion. Especially the discussion about how a big v-twin breathes and the optimum pipe length for performance. A lot of people mod the exhaust and intake and then complain about "lost power", or more accurately, lost torque. However, the torque is not "lost". Actually, the torque is still there, but at a different RPM (usually higher engine RPM). Since very few riders routinely ride their big v-twins at higher RPM the engine feels weaker. However, WHERE the engine makes the best power in the RPM range is what has changed. Low restriction, easier breathing exhaust makes more power (in general) at high mid-range to high engine RPM, like a drag bike. Exhaust tuned to make real usable, street riding power, make more torque at the common every day engine speeds like 2,000 to 4,000 RPM. IF you do most of your riding in that engine speed range you want an intake/exhaust system set up to make max torque in the 2,000 to 4,000 RPM range.

The "shape" of the torque curve is as important as how much max torque the engine makes. If the torque maxes at about 2500 RPM and then the torque curve is flat or barely decreasinf with more engine RPM, that engine will feel strong at almost any every day riding engine speed. Even if the torque curve is a bit lower at 2500 rpm with a modified exhaust (versus stock exhaust), but the torque curve is nearly flat to steadily increasing with engine speed, that engine will also feel strong as the engine speed is increased.

[mbarr10]

Old thread, but some really good discussion. Especially the discussion about how a big v-twin breathes and the optimum pipe length for performance.

Thank You "andyvh1959" Thank you for looking back in the posts.
Old, is still relevant. :cheers: So I tell myself, every morning
And Old posts still hold answers for todays issues. I tried to read all posts when I first joined, way back in time to the first 1700 posts. I wanted a good back ground of information about my new bike.:tup: