Cam chain extenders

[cocheese72]

I am sitting at 27000 miles. Bike is not making any noise yet from the chain but I have the extenders on hand. Is there any issue with going ahead and putting these in now, or is it bet to wait?

Also planning on installing a new mechanical seal for the coolant leak I have. If the seal continues to leak after this install, is there any possiblility of adding some silicone sealant around the o-ring to help stop it, or is this o-ring and mechanical seal moving up and down on the shaft?

[ringadingh]

If you have any adjustment left Id wait until you don't, Read Gadgets article on them it explains a lot of stuff about whats involved.

As far as the seal goes, It depends if its leaking around the shaft, thats hard to silicone if not impossible. Ive never done one of those so Im not 100% sure whats involved.

[trosco]

IF you put the extenders in prematurely you will increase the tension on the chains beyond what is needed. That will most likely accellerate the stretching and could result in a failure that would not have happend otherwise. I have 40,000 miles on my 07, and have one notch left on one extender and two on the other. I am pretty religious about maint so some may need to do it sooner but I'd say look at you bike and if both extenders are not fully extended then don't make the change yet. The bikes will run fine with them fully extended for thousands of miles and I would error towards later rather than sooner.

The seal leak is around the shaft that drives the pump's impeller and not around the outside of the seal where it mates to the case. The shaft moves so you can't do anything other than replace the seal. When you have it apart examine the surface of the shaft carefully for any grooves, pits or surface roughness. On mine we replaced the seal and it went bad a second time in 3,000 miles. I had to replace my shaft because of this problem. The dealer in Iowa where I was when we had to make this fix said that they had seen "a couple" 07's with this problem and actually had shafts in stock. The real mech that did most of the work (I helped) said that the original shaft had not been properly hardened. He did something (sounded like night-right-ed) to the new shaft and then polished it with leather like they do crankshaft journals. I have had no trouble since his fix.

[cocheese72]

Thanks Tronso. I thought they may be able to go on and just not be fully extended. I have checked out gadgets page. Could not really get a small rule in that tight spot to get an accurate measurement. I didn't take the whole part off, I did like gadget recommended, so not sure if you took the whole part out to measure the clicks. I assume you did. I will wait for now, I thought they may hit at 30k, didn't think many lasted past 40k. We will see, I have them when I need them. From what I heard, they will make a nasty sound when fully extended.

What did that new shaft cost? It looks like about $16 from bike bandit, if I am looking at the correct part. Not too bad.

[cocheese72]

Looking through the shop manual, and it states: "Since the replacement mechanical seal has an adhesive coated body, do not apply a liquid gasket to the exterior surface of the body."

[chuckster131]

You can take one out (back one) is easier, and check how many clicks are left by pulling the rod slowly apart from the body counting the clicks. There is a gasket on the body of the tensioner, just be careful when taking it away from engine and when reinstalling you can put a small film of permatex gasket sealer on there and you will be just fine. There is no oil pressure on this part, just needs to seal.

Place a rag below the tensioner on the engine case before removing it as you have alittle oil come out that the body of the tensioner has in it.

Iv'e seen engines at 25,000 need them and some don't start till 40,000

[mikeyger]

I was out of travel at 39000 with no noise when i put Joe's extenders in. Reading on vroc about this subject and how many miles before these were needed there were a few people respond that had never used these and had 80000 up to over 100 thousand miles. It is easy to check. Good luck!

[ringadingh]

Just because you are out of travel does not mean that there will be a catastrophic engine failure. I think a lot of fellas add them far sooner than actually required. If they are neglected to long, the cam chains will cut a groove in the spark plug tubes, and you will develop an oil leak. I kept an eye on mine for a couple seasons before I installed the extenders, and even at 55k the spark plug tubes were never touched by the chains.

[cocheese72]

Well I got the mech seal in tonight. I hope the leak stops, or at least does not get worse. The seal is hard to get out, it is hammered tight in that spot. The manual says to pry it out, but mine was stuck very tight. I got it out, but put some nicks on the surface in the process trying to pry it. The new one hammered in tight, so we will see. I ran it for quite a while before the fan kicked on and ran. My leaks usually won't appear for a few days of sitting.

[pooker]

You can take one out (back one) is easier, and check how many clicks are left by pulling the rod slowly apart from the body counting the clicks. There is a gasket on the body of the tensioner, just be careful when taking it away from engine and when reinstalling you can put a small film of permatex gasket sealer on there and you will be just fine. There is no oil pressure on this part, just needs to seal.

Place a rag below the tensioner on the engine case before removing it as you have alittle oil come out that the body of the tensioner has in it.

Iv'e seen engines at 25,000 need them and some don't start till 40,000

Yeah like mine,..........I had 23,000 kms and needed them!!!!

[trosco]

I think the that the stretch rate (if that is a term) slows as mileage adds up. I've had my extenders since 20,ooo miles. Had heard everyone was replacing clutch spring (have that also) and putting in extenders by then so was going to do all at once. A20,ooo I had 2 clics left on both and in the last 19,000 miles I have had virtually no change. Replaced fluid in Clucth at 24,ooo and never have needed the spring either. Think a lot of stuff that isn't truly nesc get's done to our bikes.
By the way, still have the original spark plugs and look/run great. The cars that have the same ignition system as our bikes recomend 100,000 mile plug change intervals, ma kaw says like every 8,000 or something! Suspect that is to improve their revenue stream more than any other reason.
The parts estimate if kaw did my water pump shaft including fluid and gaskets was $200 but the labor was $1,420. I spent less than $200 for eveything doing things after hours in a friends shop but even third party with the mechs discount the shaft was about $40 of that.

[cocheese72]

My clutch was slipping at 25k. I think the plugs are around 8 or maybe 15. I pulled them out of my 900 around then and they looked brand new.


Think a lot of stuff that isn't truly nesc get's done to our bikes.

I guarantee you that's true.

[trosco]

Hey Cheese
The nasty part with the shaft replacement is you have to get into the bottom end of motor to do it and that means engine comes out of frame first. Hence the big labor charge... But, later on Tim in Charlotte NC (Mas Tequila on here) told me he thought it could be done with out a lot of the work the manual had me do. He's the guy who fit the 1600 Classic motor in the 1500 frame last sumer and has been inside several of the Nomad motors. He'd be someone to talk to if you end up needing the shaft replaced.

[cocheese72]

I had some rust on the far end of the shaft where the impeller sits, but it cleaned up. The shaft for the most part looked decent. My hardest part was getting that adhesive coated fitting out. The mech seal actually slipped out (leaving the metal seal behind, probably where the leak was) and I thought that was it, until I realized that that metal piece was still pressed into the engine. I would try a different strategy next time getting that out, because prying it out was not the best way after 27,000 miles. The bike has sat a day now and no leak, but I need to give it a few more days to be sure. If nothing else, I don't think it is any worse than it was, or it would have already leaked.

[trosco]

Good Luck, I hope that solves your problem..........And I wish that maw Kaw would admit they had a problem with this on the 07's.

My bike was still in warranty when the leak started. Just a drop, only over night and always after a hot ride. Mentioned to my dealer and they said was just a overflow and no biggie. 6 months later (1 month out of warranty) when problem was more consistent I research and figured out was probably pump seal. Went back to dealer and he conveniently "had no record of my previous inquiry, checked with Kaw to see if they would allow him to warranty and was told no so his hands were tied."

Ultimately I fixed it myself and have had no problems since. I really like my Nomad and will keep it a long time but dealers actions are why there is a 2010 Goldwing in the garage next to it instead of a Voyager. It is just plane stupid for Kaw and their dealers to not back their product!

[gazza]

If the tensioners are fully extended, doesn't that mean the cam chain is then stretched out of it's servicable tolerance? Or doesn't that matter when you extend the tensioners?

[cocheese72]

Good Luck, I hope that solves your problem..........And I wish that maw Kaw would admit they had a problem with this on the 07's.

My bike was still in warranty when the leak started. Just a drop, only over night and always after a hot ride. Mentioned to my dealer and they said was just a overflow and no biggie. 6 months later (1 month out of warranty) when problem was more consistent I research and figured out was probably pump seal. Went back to dealer and he conveniently "had no record of my previous inquiry, checked with Kaw to see if they would allow him to warranty and was told no so his hands were tied."

Ultimately I fixed it myself and have had no problems since. I really like my Nomad and will keep it a long time but dealers actions are why there is a 2010 Goldwing in the garage next to it instead of a Voyager. It is just plane stupid for Kaw and their dealers to not back their product!


Had an opposite reaction dealing with Kawasaki. I bought a 900 off a guy, and realized there was an oil drip. I took it into the dealer for a check. I was literally 1-3 days out of warranty. He said they would first have to diagnose it, and then see if Kawa would cover it, but they may not. I authorized the diagnosis and was prepared to pay for that. It came back as two small pin sized holes in the jugs. Appeared to be a factory defect, so Kawasaki covered everything. As of now that 900 is the most dependable bike I have ever had. I was very happy as the job would have ran into the thousands, but more likely the bike would have been sold, and I would have not even thought of another Kawa.

[cocheese72]

If the tensioners are fully extended, doesn't that mean the cam chain is then stretched out of it's servicable tolerance? Or doesn't that matter when you extend the tensioners?

As I understand it, I think it means that the chain has extended more than Kawaski initially planned for with it's tensioners. The only fix is getting longer tensioners with these parts, or replacing the chain, which is $$$. The chain is only going to stretch so much, and I believe not more than these extensions will handle.

My thinking about early installation was that the extenders appear to be about 1/4" or so longer. So if you were not really out of travel yet, but maybe close, then putting the extenders on would only mean your tensioner would not extend as far. But by what people are saying, it seems like that may be a bad idea, so I will wait.

[gazza]

Am thinking if the cam chains start slapping I'd have a perfect excuse to trade for one of them fancy new 1700 http://s2.images.proboards.com/cool.gif

[cocheese72]

Am thinking if the cam chains start slapping I'd have a perfect excuse to trade for one of them fancy new 1700 http://s2.images.proboards.com/cool.gif

For the cost, I don't think it would be worth my time/money for the upgrade value. Going to take more than 100cc although, cruise and 6th may be nice. Uses 1600s are great value right now, especially after you get them setup right.

[ringadingh]

Cam chains stretch the most from new, after a while the stretch slows right down.
I wonder if the chains ever stretch so the cam chain tensioners are fully stretched even with a extender on them. No choice but to replace the chains then.

[trosco]

Kaw actually sells a OEM tensioner extender everywhere in the world except the USA. They apparently figured out that their tensioner did not have adequate range and solved it with the add on extender.
It's identical to the one we are getting from Chuckster so I double that the problem is that the chains stretch too much. More like they stretch some and the tensioner was not properly designed and didn't have the range to deal with the stretch.

[minst7877]

The chain tensioners have more travel in their original state than the extenders add to them. When they are within a couple of clicks they will have plenty of room to be reset. My rear tensioner still had two clicks left when I added the extenders and it still went in three clicks when it was released. Front one was all the way out. Bike idles a lot smoother now.

DC

[cocheese72]

The chain tensioners have more travel in their original state than the extenders add to them. When they are within a couple of clicks they will have plenty of room to be reset. My rear tensioner still had two clicks left when I added the extenders and it still went in three clicks when it was released. Front one was all the way out. Bike idles a lot smoother now.

DC

See this is what I was thinking. If they are pressed out far enough, and then installed with extensions, they would just press out much less but not cause any hard or undue tension.

[trosco]

It's a coil spring on the tensioners. The greatest pressure on the chain is when the tensioner is not extended at all. So if the tensioner is not extended fully it is working properly and the chain is properly tensioned. Why would changing that be a positive for you bike?
If you added the extender to a tensioner that was not fully extended, you may not have done harm to your bike but you did nothing that would improve the way your bike runs that is just in your head. It is much like my bike always runs better after I have washed it. I know it doesn't really but it still seems like it!

[gazza]

It is much like my bike always runs better after I have washed it. I know it doesn't really but it still seems like it!

Mine does too.
Less grime means less wind resistance which gives it another 10bhp!

[minst7877]

Front tensioner was out of travel and rear only had two clicks left. Yes the rear still had the proper (or some) tension on it but the front did not. It did make a difference in how my bike ran because it tightened up the front cylinder chain. The other point was that you can install them when they are down to a couple of clicks left and it won't hurt anything.

DC

[coacha]

Mine sounds a ton better after putting them in today. I had 2 clicks left on both.

My bike runs better with the key on, doesn't make a ton of difference if it is clean or not ;)