Tailgating Safety

[dui546]

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/dui546/mcandtruck.jpg

It is safe to say that the motorcyclist in this picture violated the following too close statute. You ask..."Where is his bike?" It was located about a mile behind this photo. He got stuck and was drug a mile before the truck driver was made aware that he was even involved in a crash!! The rider was pronounced dead on scene.

[unwind2]

Oh My Gosh! Did he die instantaly? Broken Neck or massavie head injury? ETOH on board?

[ringadingh]

Looks like a quick end to his day, hopefully it didn't hurt

The more I see people drive the more I'm convinced they don't even realize they are following too closely. I saw a lady a while back on I-15 in the lane next to me rear end the car in front of her that had rear ended the car in front of that car (3 car accident). She wasn't even tailgaiting but she had nowhere to go when the middle car came to an instant stop.

[dui546]

This did not occur in our city Unwind2 but the story was given to us in a forum with other law enforcement agencies where we share unique data and situations. Alcohol was not a factor. The guy was dead on impact...or shortly thereafter and, based on my experience investigating accidents and the way he is simply hanging, I would say broken neck. Believe it or not, autopsies have shown that a good portion of people who die in a crashes usually die from their aorta being torn near the heart. The other external trauma contributes but is normally secondary.

[socwkbiker]

I would figure it would be from crapping their drawers so severly their heart stopped. I know I would if I was coming up fast on the back end of a rig!

[dui546]

GOOD POINT Wolfman! Many people do not understand the forces and dynamics involved with a vehicle in motion. I give traffic safety presentations to military commands and companies in our area. Below are a couple of slides we use to show the amount of distance traveled and required stopping distance for speed based on mass (cars and trucks). It takes the average driver 1.5 seconds to react to a problem (seeing to taking action). A Nascar Driver would be faster and an intoxicated or old driver would be slower. The distance in the perception/reaction block is the distance the vehicle travels during that time. We also compare the speed in "yards" required to stop using a football field as the reference point. Two things to keep in mind; (1) these are based on dry concrete and flat road surfaces free of loose material and (2) the vehicle in good mechanical working order. We calculate the minimum speed after we inspect the roadway and vehicle(s) and use formulas to correct variations such as the actual roadway's coefficient of friction and incline or decline (uphill/downhill). I think this information is important for a motorcycle rider to consider when making the decision to enter into a roadway from a side street.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/dui546/Vehspeeds.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/dui546/StoppingFootballRefChartWeb.jpg

Thanks for the charts DUI....very interesting...surprised there aren't more accidents w/people following behind so close on the crowded freeways!!!

[blowndodge]

Thanks for looking out for us DUI !! Everyone please ride safe and pay attention out there! "Ride like your invisible".

Thanks for the charts DUI....very interesting...surprised there aren't more accidents w/people following behind so close on the crowded freeways!!!

People usually get away with tailgaiting because they end up braking while the car infront of them is braking. The problem/pile-ups happen when one car comes to an instant stop from hitting somone. I try to always leave a 4 second following distance. The only problem is that 4 seconds is A LOT further than most people leave so people usually cut in front of me and take my gap. I guess they see a big gap and they assume because I'm not tailgaiting the car in front of me I MUST be going slower - when in reality I'm going the EXACT same speed as the car in front of me I'm just leaving a safe distance. If you can't see whats going on in front of the car in front of you - you are putting YOUR safety in the hands of the driver in front of you. Not that anyone needs any driving tips from the youngest person on this forum its just that safe driving is something I do take seriously. (one of the few things) If any gets a chance to learn the SMITH system DO IT!

[dui546]

YOU are wise Wolfman! AND...as a professional truck driver, you have lots of experience with the pitfalls of traffic.

[Todd]

I am on the road constantly during the week with work...up and down the interstates, highways, and even rural roads. One of the things I notice is that, while drivers in general are unsafe and discourteous....the ones that get out on the road on the weekends are horrible for the most part. I can only guess that they just dont drive that much during the week, refuse to follow a safe distance, and if they do, another idiot will quickly fill in that spot taking up the safe distance a vehicle was following in the first place.

The bad part is that the majority of us are on our bikes more on the weekends.... :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[unwind2]

autopsies have shown that a good portion of people who die in a crashes usually die from their aorta being torn near the heart. The other external trauma contributes but is normally secondary.

Interesting....I feel like (no autopsy) that's what happened to a good friend of ours (Bob).......that or a heart attack triggered by the trauma/shock.

At age 62 he started riding again after approx 25-30 year hiatus. He bought a goldwing. Shortly after he got it he went on a ride with me and my hubbie. He was bringing up the rear and I noticed he was going wide on curves and turns. I told my hubbie and he tactfully got our friend to ride behind him and let me bring up the rear after they chatted. We kept the pace down for our friend's riding experience and comfort.

Sadly.....about a month later he was out riding with his young nephew who is a very experienced rider.....our friend was trying to keep up and took a curve way to wide and hit a car coming from the other direction. Nephew said Bob was talking on the scene but complained of chest pain. Helicopter called to scene. He died in the helicopter before ever getting to the trauma center. It broke our hearts. Everybody loved this guy at his funeral everybody could not get in so they put outside speakers. People his wife had never met kept coming up and introducing themselves and telling her about how he had helped them - financially etc...lots of deeds nobody knew about. The nephew was so torn up he did not ride for a long time and almost sold his bike.....but Bob's wife told him not to that Bob would not want that. She said Bob died doing what he wanted to do.

Sorry.....I went on so much....it's been 2 years and I still miss him so. It makes me still tell people to ride in your own comfort zone not someone else's. I know one time I pulled out from a group after I looked down and saw 93 mph on my speedo I told them that was enough for me. Two others pulled out with me and admitted they had got caught up in the adrenaline.

[Idaho]

That is why someone coined the term "defensive driving". No matter how crazy other people drive we must resist the urge to "get even" or "show them a thing or two".

My heart goes out to the family of the biker in the pictue. I wonder what his full story is. Bullet bike, crazy on the throttle thrill seeker, or just a poor schmuck who got caugth in a tight spot.

This afternoon after work I had a green light for a block before I hit an intersection. Driver on the cross street with the red light gave one of those instant stops. He was in a hurry. Don't even think that he saw me. I had him pegged and grabbed brakes and gears and mashed my air horn button. His window was down and I think that he crapped his drawers, I know that he hit the curb trying to get out of the way of the bus that he thought was bearing down on him. Bet he thinks twice before pulls that stunt again. Glad I was watching and thankful for the Stebel air horn.

I don't care too much for large group rides unless you know the people well and everyone is committed to riding in their comfort zone. If one goes down it can be disastrous. I learned my lesson soon after I got my first bike. I was following my brother-in-law on his BMW. We entered a curve and he made it look easy and so I just followed blindly. When I got into the curve I panicked but was able to ride it out. Now I would probably go through the same curve a lot faster and not even think twice but at the time I was a brand new rider on a brand new bike. My philosophy is that I let him ride his bike and I ride mine. I don't watch what he's doing I watch what I'm doing. That goes for whoever I ride with. Its good to push yourself a little at a time to improve your skill though. I'm a fairly conservative rider though. I've gone through some really twisty roads really fast and I've never scraped my floor boards so I know the bike is capable of going faster than I feel comfortable going around blind corners.

Glad your ok idaho! What gets me is that 1/2 the time they look right at you and still pull out!

[Idaho]

I ride with the Blue Knights and we have rules that we follow on group rides that keep us out of trouble. I always wear my colors too and that really keeps me honest when riding alone because I don't want to give them a bad name.

As for the floorboards, mine must be lower than Wolfman's because they scrape a lot.

I can really tell that my skill level has improved a lot in the last 5 years. I found myself on the wrong side of a curve that first year and was thankful that no one was coming the other direction. Now I am very careful when riding with others to gauge their skill level and not exceed that level because I don't want to get anyone hurt. It is too easy for riders to get caught up in the ride and not back off the throttle. I know that from experience when I had some white knuckle rides myself trying to keep up with others. I will not do that again. We need to look out for others so that we all go home safe at the end of the day.

[dui546]

[quote:rw9r8tik] autopsies have shown that a good portion of people who die in a crashes usually die from their aorta being torn near the heart. The other external trauma contributes but is normally secondary.

At age 62 he started riding again after approx 25-30 year hiatus. He bought a goldwing. Shortly after he got it he went on a ride with me and my hubbie. He was bringing up the rear and I noticed he was going wide on curves and turns. I told my hubbie and he tactfully got our friend to ride behind him and let me bring up the rear after they chatted. We kept the pace down for our friend's riding experience and comfort.

Sadly.....about a month later he was out riding with his young nephew who is a very experienced rider.....our friend was trying to keep up and took a curve way to wide and hit a car coming from the other direction. Nephew said Bob was talking on the scene but complained of chest pain. Helicopter called to scene. He died in the helicopter before ever getting to the trauma center. It broke our hearts.

Sorry.....I went on so much....it's been 2 years and I still miss him so. It makes me still tell people to ride in your own comfort zone not someone else's. I know one time I pulled out from a group after I looked down and saw 93 mph on my speedo I told them that was enough for me. Two others pulled out with me and admitted they had got caught up in the adrenaline.[/quote:rw9r8tik]

WOW. That is a story from the heart. I posted a thread in the motorcycle safety section of this forum and had a coworker review it. He pointed out that I needed to add a section of how the rider's experience or experience on the bike they were riding at the time played a big role in the crash. A girl who hit a speed limit sign had a bike that was beyond her ability and only a couple months old. She had a motorcycle learner's permit. She was trying to "keep up" with the pack she was riding with.

When I first bought my Nomad I found myself taking a couple of turns wide on a two lane road. I had little experience on "that bike" and I had my wife on the back. Luckily nobody was coming the other way but it scared me. I literally took the bike out on my own and practiced my skills both in a parking lot (figure 8's and stuff) and then alone on a curvey roadway. I thought about basic skill things such as entering a turn "outside-inside-outside" and off the throttle going in to the turn and accelerate the throttle going out. I've had a motorcycle license since I was 16 and ridden 5 different bikes extensively on the road. I am now 43. Riding outside your comfort zone is anyhing but "fun" riding.

You guys recognized the skill level of your friend. His young nephew did not have the "life experience" to understand. :( Ironically, that event may have prevented the future death of his nephew on a motorcycle.

[unwind2]

DUI - I went and looked at the thread under the safety board you were refering to.....very well put...thanks for sharing.

[socwkbiker]

Unwind, your story really touched me as I can understand the agony of the nephew and the family. I'm glad the wife told him to keep riding.

I appreciate the stories and the safety conversation from everyone here. I returned to riding when I bought my '05 and didn't buy the bike until I took the MSF course. But that still can't prepare us for daily driving. Living near Dallas, I see what you see WM and Todd with people jumping in and out of lanes without so much as looking or even thinking about who is around them. It's amazing that more of us don't get hurt.

I understand trying to keep up with people or taking curves at the same speed as experienced riders. I followed a guy once into a curve that he took at 70 and I took at 50 because I quickly realized I wouldn't make it. But had it not been for other riders in my area like you guys, I wouldn't have learned from their experience. So, all that being said, let's keep riding safe.

And I'm buying one of those horns!

[dui546]

I have to share this with you...

If you love or care about any one who is significant in your life, you should always try to part on good terms or with kind words...regardless of how insignificant the task before you or them is going to be. Celebrate your marriage with a hug and kiss :-* or friendship with a hug or handshake. And always...with a patented smile of your choice. :) ;) http://s2.images.proboards.com/cheesy.gif http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

An example, my shadow crossed the doorway of a home where the young husband and wife had previously been arguing over who was going to have to go out to the 7-11 to get milk for their children's morning breakfast. It was about 10 pm at night. The wife went and was killed in a crash within a mile of the residence. The crash was not her fault. We showed up and the husband immediately stated that "it" should have been him...he should have went to the store...he shouldn't have made her go out...yahta yahta yahta. People live forever with parting words and circumstances.

My two daughters, who are now 21 and 23, call me corny every time they leave our home because I act like they are leaving forever. Sadly, in my line of work I see unexpected tragedy all the time.

Fact being...we were assured one thing the day we were born and that is that someday we will die. Just like when we were born, we do not know the date or time. Therefore my friends, live every moment as if it were going to be your last. I see a lot of people who did not have "die" on their list of things to do today. This may sound stupid but, I always find myself wondering what worries they had just let go or what tasks were no longer important to them. At that point...none of it no longer matters.

[frenchy]

At least he was wearing his gear!