best pipes?

[Idaho]

I know that this is a matter of personal preference for the most part but I'm trying to sort through fact and fiction in my search for new pipes. Many of you on this site seem to prefer the V&H Baggers and claim that there is no need to change the engine contoller with those pipes even with a K&N air filter.

I stopped in the local Kawa dealer (not the one I bought the Nomad from) and asked his opinion on this topic. Not surprising he had one. He prefers the Cobra pipes. Claims that the V&H have too much back pressure and that no matter what aftermarket pipes you put on you need a new power commander.

Okay, I know he is in the business to sell stuff so I figure that you guys can help me sort this out. After all, you get nothing out of this but satisfaction. Any truth to what he is telling me? It seems that if the Baggers do have more backpressure than the Cobra pipes that would be more likely to preclude the need for a new computer to control the engine.

Has anyone heard Cobra's and Baggers side by side? I would prefer a muffler with a mellow sound and no bark. Which one best fits that bill?
Thanks,
IDaho

Well its true that if you change your intake to BAK or similair then yes adding a power commander (fuel managament system) is a must. But if you only add pipes no you dont have to add a PCIII, BUT!!!! I would suggest that if you ever change any of them to add the PCIII is a good idea. One good reason on top of adding more power and getting the most out of your machine is it gives the nomad a much better throttle response. More snap if you know what I mean... As for pipes thats really all about what you like and is always subjective to each person. I love my V&H thats because i have heard them on another nomad and knew that was the pipes for me even though I have heard cobra's and V&H side by side. I prefer the V&H while i have heard others say they like the cobra's again it's all about personal taste. Hope I helped some ;)

[rickmeister56]

i prefer the v/h. when i installed the pipes i didnt feel that much of a power increase. i purchased the power commander and went to a shop that had a dyno and had a map done for my bike and it runs like a scalded dog now.

[socwkbiker]

I have V&H pipes and love them. I will be installing a PCIII over the weekend. It's really up to your taste in sound and performance. I know the Baggers have a deep rumble, so if that's what you want, go for it!

[blowndodge]

Unfortunately when a dealer or service manager tells you what he did, you should RUN for the door! The statement "too much back pressure and you'll need a power commander" show me he has no idea what the heck he is talking about! From an old gear head, this is tantamount to claiming the earth is flat many a moon ago!

Any aftermarket pipe is going to have the "potential" to flow better than stock pipes, period!

Point to remember, and this is important, air can only flow out as fast as it can flow in. For proof, what happend when you have coke or water in a straw and you fill the straw up and put your finger over the end of it? Nothing comes the other end because it can only come out if air comes in behind it AND the amount of air allowed in behind is EXACTLY the same amount coming out!

Nomad's intakes have a inlet about the size of a small peach! so, it is physically impossible for more than that to come out your pipes than what's going in the intake (peach hole) at the same time. Yes I know you could claim expansion of hot gases means more comes out. You don't want the molecular reason behind it, just trust me on this.

Another well know thing to think about is when you vacumm your cars carpet and you need to put a "reducer" on the tip of the hose. We do this to "speed up the airflow". The same volume is coming up the hose, it's just traveling "faster" small hole = higher speed. This is the role of the "valves" in the engine. To get air moving faster. This is just for thought for now to explain why head porting is done.

They're many factors to exhausts pipes and all the dual pipes will preform about the same. If its sound you want, your good to go with either. If performance is you want then the size of the opening (volume) has to at least match the size of the exit (pipes).

Open up both and you will need to add more fuel. Opening up just one side you won't. Our ECM's, from what I've been told, do not compensate for increase air flow.

Hopefully this information will add to what you really want to end up doing. I'm at the same point with my Nomad and I have a "thing" about the Cobra True dual billet tips. Just like the looks I guess. I will need to hear them in person.

If I go this route I will had an aftermarket air kit and then either adjuste the TPS (throttle position sensor) or add an aftermarket fuel enhancer.

[Todd]

Baggers...

I had Cobra's on a previous bike and didnt care for them..I could not keep them shiny....they blued all the time. I know these would be a different setup but it just made me lose confidence in them.

[scion0]

As a newbie to the Nomad world, I take from what I have read that no one pipe is "better", ie. head and shoulders above another in terms of performance, quality, etc. Someone trying to sell me on some new pipes told me the Cobra is the better product compared to V&H. He did not know that I had a set of V&H ProPipes on my 1500 before I got the NOMAD. It is a new 2007 so it will be a while before I can spring for pipes, intake, and PCIII but would like the down and skinny on them (the wife likes the loudness better than I but...)... so any opinions will be valued.

Unfortunately when a dealer or service manager tells you what he did, you should RUN for the door! The statement "too much back pressure and you'll need a power commander" show me he has no idea what the heck he is talking about! From an old gear head, this is tantamount to claiming the earth is flat many a moon ago!

Any aftermarket pipe is going to flow more air out of the engine that stock pipes, period!

Point to remember, and this is important, air can only flow out as fast as it can flow in. For proof, what happend when you have coke or water in a straw and you fill the straw up and put your finger over the end of it? Nothing comes out because it can only come out if air comes in behind it and the amount of air allowed in behind is EXACTLY


Physics 101.... or 121 ?

[Todd]

Unfortunately when a dealer or service manager tells you what he did, you should RUN for the door! The statement "too much back pressure and you'll need a power commander" show me he has no idea what the heck he is talking about! From an old gear head, this is tantamount to claiming the earth is flat many a moon ago!

Any aftermarket pipe is going to flow more air out of the engine that stock pipes, period!

Point to remember, and this is important, air can only flow out as fast as it can flow in. For proof, what happend when you have coke or water in a straw and you fill the straw up and put your finger over the end of it? Nothing comes out because it can only come out if air comes in behind it and the amount of air allowed in behind is EXACTLY

YOU ARE CORRECT SIR !!!! That sums it up perfectly.

Not changing my ECU until I change the intake...running baggers now with no popping/backfiring/etc.....and the nice sound to boot!

She was sooooooooo purrrdy........

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u272/DrNickDC/P1010035.jpg

<marquee> :'(</marquee>

[Todd]

Yes she was...but a little plastic surgery and she will be good as new..

Hey, what kind of flag holder is that?? I want to get one but can't find anything I really like or will fit good. Where does it mount?

[blowndodge]

She don't look like that now!!!! smarty pants

I had an expensive flag holder on the Roadstar Silverado that attached to the license plate holder (replaced one of the bolts/screws)..... no way it would fit on the Nomad.

What you see on there is a $1.99 flag from Walmart... I had Judi reinforce the stitching and tightened it in the backrest bracket!

Don't look too bad, eh???

[Todd]

Walmart.....Uh....never woulda guessed it....I will start a post and see if anyone has good suggestions.

Trust us, if you add the pipes/PCIII/new BAK or similair you wont regret it. It really wakes that bike up. My nomad felt like a new bike after I did these mods.... Any help or if you need more info just ask http://s2.images.proboards.com/cheesy.gif




As a newbie to the Nomad world, I take from what I have read that no one pipe is "better", ie. head and shoulders above another in terms of performance, quality, etc. Someone trying to sell me on some new pipes told me the Cobra is the better product compared to V&H. He did not know that I had a set of V&H ProPipes on my 1500 before I got the NOMAD. It is a new 2007 so it will be a while before I can spring for pipes, intake, and PCIII but would like the down and skinny on them (the wife likes the loudness better than I but...)... so any opinions will be valued.

[dogzhaus]

I just put on a set of Cobra true dual slash downs and the cobra fi2000r. The fit and finish on the pipes is spectacular. The sound is great, but just a tad loud. The fi2000r really does wake the bike up. I have been messing with the settings to see what runs the best. It came set at 3 5 0 and i think i am at 2.5 5 1. Has anyone else messed with the setting and had good results. I may take it down and have it put on the dyno

[dogdoc]

I added V&H baggers and very happy with them and the sound. My dealer said stay away from the Cobra's not sure why. Will add an after market air cleaner and PClll one day. But for now I'm enjoying the RUMBLE!!!!!!!

Doc

[scion0]

[quote author=vulcancouple board=general thread=1188447599 post=1188486319]Trust us, if you add the pipes/PCIII/new BAK or similair you wont regret it. It really wakes that bike up. My nomad felt like a new bike after I did these mods.... Any help or if you need more info just ask http://s2.images.proboards.com/cheesy.gif



BAK? I'm gonna milk the newie status.... what is a BAK? ???

[jeffm]

I just put on a set of Cobra true dual slash downs and the cobra fi2000r. The fit and finish on the pipes is spectacular. The sound is great, but just a tad loud. The fi2000r really does wake the bike up. I have been messing with the settings to see what runs the best. It came set at 3 5 0 and i think i am at 2.5 5 1. Has anyone else messed with the setting and had good results. I may take it down and have it put on the dyno

i have the billet tipped ones. iv'e played with the settings & it seems to run good at several settings but the higher the #'s the worst the gas milage. i think i'm at 3 3 0 .

[blowndodge]

jeffm, how's the sound? I want to be able to cruise down the highway at 80 and not get burnt out on the drone!

[Idaho]

BlownDodge and Todd both confirmed what I believed to be true. I learned a long time ago to get real cautious and skeptical when someone starts telling me that you have to do something that I know others claim to have done. Those guys are not going to touch my ride. I would order the parts and install them myself anyway. I got to listen to a set of Cobra's on a 1600 Nomad today. Nice but they did not move me to spend $500 to get them.

I really appreciate all of the responses to this question.

thank you all,
Idaho

[jeffm]

jeffm, how's the sound? I want to be able to cruise down the highway at 80 and not get burnt out on the drone!

they are not that loud when cruising. they really open up when you get on it. my 99 had the older style cobra slash cuts . there is no comparison in the two . they where loud all the time. the new billet tipped ones are a lot deeper & not as tinny sounding. i have never heard the v&h so i can't compare which sounds better. i do like mine.

"BAK? I'm gonna milk the newie status.... what is a BAK? "




A BAK stands for "Barons Air Kit" or like some like to call it big Air kit!

Welcome nieghbor, what part of ID? :)



BlownDodge and Todd both confirmed what I believed to be true. I learned a long time ago to get real cautious and skeptical when someone starts telling me that you have to do something that I know others claim to have done. Those guys are not going to touch my ride. I would order the parts and install them myself anyway. I got to listen to a set of Cobra's on a 1600 Nomad today. Nice but they did not move me to spend $500 to get them.

I really appreciate all of the responses to this question.

thank you all,
Idaho

[basco]

just ordered the bak and the pclll yesterday but would like to hear the dual baggers in person before i order them

just ordered the bak and the pclll yesterday but would like to hear the dual baggers in person before i order them

I have a video clip with sound of my V&H on?? If you want a link let me know.

yes post a link. I heard some V&H baggers on a 1500 a while back. They sounded great - had a nice rumble but not too loud.

[basco]

thank you i listened to it a while back it is kind of hard to tell how loud they really are
thats why i want to hear them in person
i want a little more sound but don't want to wake people up for miles around http://s2.images.proboards.com/shocked.gif

[nomaddon]

I too changed out the stock pipes for the V/H's. The increase in power is probably in my head but the great sound sure isn't!

[its4dale]

I normally just lurk in the background and don't say anything but I do have something to add here. When I went in to order my V&H pipes the dealer told me he had a set of Cobras to fit in stock. I wanted the ability to remove the baffles, take off the mat material, then reinstall the baffles for a sound with some bark but not too loud. The dealer assured me the Cobras had removable baffles too. He had them put on but when I picked up my Noamd I realized the Cobras at that time did not have removable baffles. I had him take them off and put my stock pipes back on until my V&H arrived. I have no idea if Cobra has changed their Nomad pipes or not. If I can't change the characteristics of the pipe I don't want it.

[Idaho]

[quote author=vulcancouple board=general thread=1188447599 post=1188577209]Welcome nieghbor, what part of ID? :)


South East Idaho, Pocatello to be exact. I have a friend in Wala Wala and plan to ride the Nomad to see him mid September to do some fishing. How far are you from there?

Thanks for the "Welcome".

Idaho

[jeffm]

have no idea if Cobra has changed their Nomad pipes or not.

yes the new true duals w/billet tips have removable baffles. 2 scews hold the tips on, 2 screws hold in the baffles. i have never taken mine out but saw a pic on the delphi forum a guy took his out. they look to be the length of the muff.

[scion0]

Removing anything from the pipes would make me worry :-) not knowing anything about back pressure, fuel injection, etc...

[chmorro]

I've got a Thunder Big air intake, power commander (remapped), and V&H Baggers with the baffles taken out.. talk about a beast! And the bike will haul tail like no tommorrow. I just blow by those Harley guys and let them hear how a bike is supposed to sound. But again, if you don't want it too loud, leave the baffles in. But to your question adding all the appropriate items will definitely wake up the bike! Those V&H bagger tail pipes look sweet shined up laying beneath those bags too!!

[Scoot]

I've got a Thunder Big air intake, power commander (remapped), and V&H Baggers with the baffles taken out.. talk about a beast! And the bike will haul tail like no tommorrow. I just blow by those Harley guys and let them hear how a bike is supposed to sound. But again, if you don't want it too loud, leave the baffles in. But to your question adding all the appropriate items will definitely wake up the bike! Those V&H bagger tail pipes look sweet shined up laying beneath those bags too!!

Yea it will ...but with baffles out it's to loud for normal riding. Now riding with Harley's yea or maybe a rally. To me to make them sound the best. I took baffle out and cut it in half. Now everyone wants to know what I've done...Makes the baggers sound right

scoot

[beezer]

That's a great concept Scoot.

[dogdoc]

chmorro: tell me more on your air cleaner of choice and PClll and what you did to get the best performance, Thx.

Doc

[blowndodge]

I normally just lurk in the background and don't say anything but.....


<marquee>Can you teach that to Nico??</marquee>

I've got a Thunder Big air intake, power commander (remapped), and V&H Baggers with the baffles taken out.. talk about a beast! And the bike will haul tail like no tommorrow. I just blow by those Harley guys and let them hear how a bike is supposed to sound. But again, if you don't want it too loud, leave the baffles in. But to your question adding all the appropriate items will definitely wake up the bike! Those V&H bagger tail pipes look sweet shined up laying beneath those bags too!!

Hmmm.... I think I'll remove the baffles on my V&H's.....

[chmorro]

I've got Baggers, Big Air Thunder intake kit, and a power commander... bike was remapped and runs very strong. I removed the baffles from my baggers when I had the whole system installed and mapped, and it does "pop and bark". I love the way it sounds! But if you are looking for something a little less "snappy", I would go with Cobras. I've heard Cobras and they don't rumble and pop as much and the baggers. Just thought I'd give you an honest opinion. The Baggers are loud with the whole system done. I'm sure as Todd has done without making the intake and power commander adjustment the baggers might be as loud, since as BD was saying the exhaust is not recieving as much air as is going out. But once you open up the Nomads mouth (intake) and start pushing more food in (power commander) get ready for more of a rumble coming out of its ***! :) You know what I'm getting at. Good luck!

[ds06nomad]

V&H Baggers here with PCIII... in the process of making a decision on air intake.

Daryl

[jayc]

VH baggers.

[vulcanvixen]

[quote:of7lbert]I've got a Thunder Big air intake, power commander (remapped), and V&H Baggers with the baffles taken out.. talk about a beast! And the bike will haul tail like no tommorrow. I just blow by those Harley guys and let them hear how a bike is supposed to sound. But again, if you don't want it too loud, leave the baffles in. But to your question adding all the appropriate items will definitely wake up the bike! Those V&H bagger tail pipes look sweet shined up laying beneath those bags too!!

Hmmm.... I think I'll remove the baffles on my V&H's..... [/quote:of7lbert]


Careful!! You know how you get when you work on the bike!!!
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w152/aryantheangel4/haha.jpg

Want help?? ;) :-*
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f103/jillyjuice530/mechaniccostume.jpg