Gas?

[Blueraven]

What type of gas should I use in the Vulcan Nomad 1500? It has the power commander and vance and hines baggers.

[cajun2wheels]

I would use the lowest grade gas that doesn't ping.

[ringadingh]

Mine runs well on 87 octane, same setup as yours.

[cyclecat]

For the few cents difference in price why not just run premium?

[rickyboy]

I'm with C.C. ..... what the heck it's not that much more $$$$

[AlabamaNomadRider]

The mixture in my tank is always at least 90 octane. One tank I fill with 93 octane and then the next I will fill with 89 octane. We are only talking about filling at most 5.3 gallons and if the premium is $.20 more per gallon you are only talking about $1.00 more per fill up.

[schoeney]

I use premium. No fuel processor and no pinging. Yeah I throw an extra $40 away each year (@ 8000 miles per year...difference around here is more like .20) but my girl Miss Ruby loves the taste.

$40 in a year? Heck I spend more than that at Starbucks in a month.

[leadbelly]

I always run primium, stock set-up de-baffled and Chucks RH air mod no fuel processer, but last week filled at a station that only has "blended" gas. Contains ethinol or something. That tank, even though it was primium ran like crap. I'd steer clear of any "eviromentally friendy" fuel.

[carolinakid1]

My 07 with Cobra fuel processor at regular setting and stock pipes likes Exxon Premium.

[Cajunrider]

Been running 87 since opening up the right side intake. No pinging and it performs well.

[usranger74]

Bike is stock but I do have a Cobra FP. If I can get it, I fill up with Premium . But, out in the rural areas of NE, IA and KS, Premium is hard to find.

[v0lusia]

My bike likes higher grade gas in the hot weather, other than that I run 87 or 89.
One thing to be aware of is that in some areas the higher grade gas may actually be old gas. For example in poorer areas they may not sell as much premium because of the price difference so it sits in the ground longer.

[macmac]

All stock you will want the highest possible hi test fuel.

With certain mods you will not at all! Then you will want the lowest you can ride hard and get no ping.

The reason is wrong for running hi test on a stock bike, but based on a wrong mixture in the first place. The hi test on a stock bike is a factory Cheat based on some bean counter laws by the EPA.

A good bet is a modifed bike running a right mix is cleaner for the air in general, and it will get better MPG's and have more power.

IF a stock bike had a way to get the correct mix, the book would say to run 87 octane, since octane is based on the compression ratio, not the mix you are stealing.

So IF that PC III has the right mix settings, it should run best on 87 octane.

It is not based on the costs at the pumps, It is all based on a proper fuel to air mix and the comp ratio.

[ringadingh]

For the few cents difference in price why not just run premium?

Here in Ontario premium gas costs .12-.14 cents a litre more than regular, thats about 55 to 70 cents a gallon more, or about $4.00 a tank more.

[05nomader]

I have fuel processors on both nomads with aftermarket exhaust and they both run fine on 87 octane, when the temperature gets a 100 plus degrees I put in 89 or higher octane as the 1600 nomad wants to ping if you push it hard.
Listen to Mac he knows what he is talking about and gives great advise.

[usranger74]

All stock you will want the highest possible hi test fuel.

With certain mods you will not at all! Then you will want the lowest you can ride hard and get no ping.

The reason is wrong for running hi test on a stock bike, but based on a wrong mixture in the first place. The hi test on a stock bike is a factory Cheat based on some bean counter laws by the EPA.

A good bet is a modified bike running a right mix is cleaner for the air in general, and it will get better MP G's and have more power.

IF a stock bike had a way to get the correct mix, the book would say to run 87 octane, since octane is based on the compression ratio, not the mix you are stealing.

So IF that PC III has the right mix settings, it should run best on 87 octane.

It is not based on the costs at the pumps, It is all based on a proper fuel to air mix and the comp ratio.



Mac

If I have removed the baffles in my stock muffler and added a Chuckster Air intake mod, do I want to run Premium?

[macmac]

All stock you will want the highest possible hi test fuel.

With certain mods you will not at all! Then you will want the lowest you can ride hard and get no ping.

The reason is wrong for running hi test on a stock bike, but based on a wrong mixture in the first place. The hi test on a stock bike is a factory Cheat based on some bean counter laws by the EPA.

A good bet is a modified bike running a right mix is cleaner for the air in general, and it will get better MP G's and have more power.

IF a stock bike had a way to get the correct mix, the book would say to run 87 octane, since octane is based on the compression ratio, not the mix you are stealing.

So IF that PC III has the right mix settings, it should run best on 87 octane.

It is not based on the costs at the pumps, It is all based on a proper fuel to air mix and the comp ratio.



Mac

If I have removed the baffles in my stock muffler and added a Chuckster Air intake mod, do I want to run Premium?

No.......... But it may be that cobra you just added will need to be re-trimmed.

The air IN is still restriced by the goat belly, so the setting in the Cobra book will not match, since the book settings never match anyway, and then are based on a free flow in take and a free flow exhaust.

In fact in places like where you are with radical changes in seasons it can be a wise idea to re-set and adjust to fine turn a cobra unit in these seasons.

There is a lot more O2 in fall air than there is in August.

More O2 means you can burn more fuel. That setting for a good mix in late fall won't be any good when the air is so thin jets have a bad time getting off the ground.

Mostly this means trimming pot 1 on Cobra and or TFI, to best RPM and then setting it RICHER by a quarter point on the pot.

Now that quarter point is debatable.
It might be 1/8th point. The real point is the setting should be slighty rich of best RPM.

These settings should be made when the engine is at full warm operational temp too. This is where 'we' ride at full warm.

A cold start engine is enriched, by a choke if it is a carbed engine and by a 5th injector on a 4 banger injected engine and by thye varriuos senders on our 2 injector Nomads, by the senders increased electrical values, system fuel pressure, and the duty cycle (time the injectors are open to blow in fuel)

As these engines warm the senders cut off a signal in milivolts to the ECU, and the ECU leans out the mix to stock settings.

This is always too lean at idle to midrange RPM, or we wouldn't NEEED fuel moduals in the first place.

A given engine with a given set up will want to have fuel mix match what ever add on components have been added on.

Adding on Chucksters intake allows for all the air the exhaust will pass out. A goat belly on will still not allow all the possible air there is to pass out, so not all the air that intake can pass, will pass.

If I put a wide and tight fitting leather belt on anyone's chest, and sent them off running, because they can't breath in well, they can't run as well because they can't breath fully.

Sure you can breath in more, but not when your chest won't expand.

This is what the goat belly is doing.

On the other hand if I take off that belt, but instead stuff an apple in yer mug, and again send you off running you will be hindered baddly trying to breath around that apple.

You can breath out fine, but can't inhale well. That is what the stock intake does.

People need fuel to burn too, just like engines do, but we do it another way. Engines do it Right NOW mixing the fuel with the air.

The ideal fuel to air mix is 14 parts air to 1 part gas. Any time a warm engine is told to run faster it needs more air and a proper fuel mix. The proper mix never happens.

The demand for more air for RPM, always leans that mix the instant the demand is made. The fuel always has to play catch up.

The time (dwell) can cause a lag or a flat spot, as the fuel is catching up to what ever the demand is.

The first chance of this with a warmed up engine is getting moving from being stopped. The load to make a stationary object of a considerable weight, and we are a part of that weight, wanting to become a moving object creates a lean mix demand.

This is standard with every engine there is. It can be a air plane, boat, or a chain saw.

A part of mix we never talk about is the fuel injector spray pattern. A good injector will create a wide near to perfect spray mist in a fine mist cone shape. It must break up the fuel just like a garden hose does set to fine mist.

It should not have any flaws, because any flaws create the wrong spray patterns. The reason for this is to break up the gas as a solid stream of fluid, and expose each and every partical of gas to air on all sides. Other than the fine mist and cone shape, everything else should be total chaos.

All fires are based on total chaos and no order. The more chaos there is the better the explosion there is. Surface area of fuel mixed with air is what keeps a camp fire or a oil lamp from being an explosion.

You can powder wood to dust and add air and set it off and will explode under the right circumstances. More often this is seen as dust in a silo with grains. Big boom silo all gone.

I used to do a trick and put out a lit match in a bucket of gasoline. The match went out every time too.

But place that match on the ground and light it, then kick a coffee cup of gas over that match and you will wanna look the hell out!

Knowing the How To of this allows me to arc weld, gas weld, or mig weld a gas tank full to over flowing with out getting dead.

Don't try that at home http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

So NO the new Cobra unit will need to be trimmed to suit the componets that are on the engine, and will need this any time there is a change in the air or from changine a part that changes the way the engine breaths.

Changes in weather are the least important, but they can and do matter, also Alt above sea level matters.

If i lived at 7,000 ft, I would have different settings on the TFI.

If i was passing over 7,000 ft i could ignor changing the trim.

If I lived at 7,000 ft and went to the beach for a long time, again the settings would need to be trimmed.

Pot 1 does the most of that.

Pot 2 adds fuel when you twist the grip hard.

Pot 3 should be off unless you are drowing a decell kackel for some reason.

Pot 4 only applies to TFI and is a rmp counter telling the TFI when you want it to work. It does not have to be at 9:00 all the time, but must be above 4:00 or the whole TFI shuts off.

[usranger74]

Mac - txs a bunch. That was very helpful. I copied you detalied reply and put it in a Word Doc and saved it.

[skiman]

You guys with the newer bikes can just run the PC5 and an autotuner for near perfect fuel control

[usranger74]

You guys with the newer bikes can just run the PC5 and an autotuner for near perfect fuel control


I am on a learning curve here - what s a PC 5?

[skiman]

It's a fuel controller and the autotune is a mixture controller that piggyback the pc5
http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/default.aspx

[flavor]

Hey Mac/Bill, I especially liked the analogy using the belt and the apple.

[macmac]

Oh good Jim comon up we can try it our. http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

Skiman does the PC require O2 senders? I am guessing they come in the kit, at least one.

[Cajunrider]

To heck with all that runnin, I'd just shut it down and eat the apple. http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[macmac]

Well in yer partick U lar case we''ld make it a great big apple size cotton ball http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

assumin' not even YOU will eat cotton.

[Cajunrider]

Put a little gravy on it and I'll give it a try.

[skiman]

Oh good Jim comon up we can try it our. http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

Skiman does the PC require O2 senders? I am guessing they come in the kit, at least one.
bike
Yes you get the sender
you can load a map for your bike's intake and exhaust options and the autotune fine tunes from there
I guess it makes it a open loop tunable FI system out of a stock closed looper
Not real cheap but not a bank breaker either if it works then the pay back should be better performance and longer engine life.

[macmac]

Skiman, That would be correct if there is O2 sender(s). That way there would be feed back to the PC III which would convert to the ECU.

However it might not be the best of the best in fuel economy or prefomance with the engine as is, but it might too, hard telling not knowin.

One basic problem is the cams on these engines are pretty flat cams and don't do a great deal of prefomance type breathing, and so far as i know there are no after market cams.

For a touring bike these cams work ok, but just ok. There might be some of us that wouldn't mind the power to raise that ft wheel off the ground, like say a valkery can do.

So pretty much we are limited by the throttle body and the cams. We certainly have the cc's for tons of power, just can't breath well.

I have ramped up for all the power the Nomad 15 and 16 can make and that sort of power is no where in any rpm band. I still like the Nomad and it does what I expected, but it is no racin machine of any sort.

The expence for much over a Cobra or TFI unit would be hard for me to justify, since it is a known where the problems are and stupid works with both the TFI and cobra units as the bike is.

I would bet you add a set of V&H baggers and the PC 5 can't read it, and will be fooled by the lack of no goat.

O2 senders take away the fuel not add any. The sniff for O2 in the waste, and if there is any they command the ecu to lean out mix. What they are sniffing is a slight bit of O2 waste, and with no waste they just allow the ecu to do what it does, not add fuel.

I might guess that with no goat, the PC 5 will sniff and find O2 waste and command the ecu to lean out, which might get us back to ping...

These are just off the top of my head comments since I didn't know there was a PC 5 out .

I am all for clean air, but i really have to wonder what a few several thosand bikes or a the same as chain saws really add up to, and the costs in the economy for all these EPA parts that don't do a thing to make a engine run.

There is more lawn tractors with carbs and no EPA devices than there is bikes, and these are only in the USA.

Last year we were in deep kimshee with global warming, and now we are in deep kimshee with the coldest winter in the lat 1,000 years. which makes me wonder a lot.

[skiman]

Mac
I think they cover the whole spectrum from mild to wild
“Auto Tune” kits are available that include Wide Band O2 sensors and control boxes. It will plug directly into the PCV and allow automatic fuel adjustments.
Auto Tune can make a map for each gear it can map each cylinder separately for each gear if needed. (basic settings would make one map for all gears)
“Warm Up” fuel adjustment (unit reads engine temp and allows fuel/timing adjustments based on it)
Each map cell is individually adjustable so you can specify an exact AFR value for each area if needed. This allows the tuner/user to select specific AFR targets for idle, cruise, and large throttle opening areas. By doing this you can automatically tune the cruise area for best fuel economy while at the same time achieve maximum power at wide open throttle.
If Dyno Jet does not have the exact map for your combination of parts you simply need to choose the closest one and let the Auto Tune kit do the rest. (if you have an very heavily modified engine and/or short drag pipes verifying your settings on a dynamometer is recommended).

On the dynajet page it shows that the autotune will richen or lean mixture as needed makes sense since a wideband sensor runs from about 7:1 to 20:1 AFR

[macmac]

I can see where i would be confusing, when I said the O2 sender only takes away fuel. The other part of that is the PCV adds fuel.

I am being very in general and basic, and talking about something i haven't even seen a picture of, much less read a thing about.

Nomads are pretty basic, and adding more to them or anything else just gets things complicated, like wimins http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

Mostly my point is if i can trim out a nomad with a TFI for 180 bucks, and you can trim out with another modual that is twice that to get the same power, same economy, and etc etc, where and what is the gain?

With out a bigger intake and no offerings for cams, there is only so much possible breathing.

The hottest mods I am aware of for Nomads is a Meanie intake which is a few mm's larger and meanie cams, which should at least fit the 15's Nomads.

There might be a guy out there somewhere with a machine shop making a hotter cam, but if there is I don't know where. That alone would be or coould be the next step, but with the 15's and 16's no longer being made i kinda doubt anyone will ever see any cams aftermarket .

[skiman]

There's the thunder kits for the 1500 and 1600 is you have a grand plus machine work.
I'm sure a port clean up would help after all the HP is always in the head.
But in the end you still have a 800lb bike that can't get out of it's own way performance wise'
I have a line on a cheap 1500 classic with 24000 miles might be a good one to experiment on.

http://www.thundermfg.com/store/index.php?l=product_list&c=4

Both the PC3 and PC5 can add or remove fuel the autotune box pigbacks the PC5

[macmac]

If you got the dough, try it and see if you can beat 10% more power, by some amount that seems worth the expence. The 2x7 or 2 x 9 intake filter on the right side, with V&H baggers a Cobra or TFI get that 10%, so that's what is needed to be beat, by ?????? %

I am familar with Bosche systems D jet what this is, L jet, CIS, LH jet. D and L jet never had a O2 sender, starting with CIS (continuouse injection system) they did have O2 senders called Lamda Sond, which is what these are today on anything that has one.

LH is the beginning of MAF and MAP. There are all sorts of terms for the same things. I was trained by Bosche which is the base model for most other systems today on anything not American made.

Other systems since i stopped being a pro tech are OBD and OBD II, but these are not really inter-related to the ECU fuel systems.

I never learned the carb body American fuel injection, or anything else from the American big 3, so far as what electronic injection is to them. But Nomad 15's and 16's are D jet.

This is the system that was on Volvo 140 and very few 122 Amazon Volvo as early as 1968.

[skiman]

My bike had the bagger duels and stock air set up, I made the plate and used the cone k&n style filter with a TFI and that really brought it to life. I don't see 80cc making a huge improvement but I do see the pistons are cut for valve clearance and I'm sure a bump in compression so the cam would be where the power is for sure .
Maybe polish the runners and port match the intake. If they would stick with one engine we would draw after market support.

[macmac]

Yeah 'IF' they would stick with any engine long enough..... My 06 is set up like that, just with a 2x9 exposed air filter, right side only.