rottella 5w-40 viscosity break down

[snarleybill08]

just an observation. i am running my first change of rottella syn. 5w-40. i have noticed that in 2500 miles the viscosity is breaking down pretty good according to my oil pressure gauge. when i first put it in the bike would idle and run well over 75 psi until it was really warmed up. now it just barely runs over 75 psi and drops to around 65 psi in a short time. it idles at 25 psi when warm. i'm not really worried about it cuz the viscosity does'nt worry me that much. in fact the oil pressure on these nomads is off the map any way. i like the oil pressure where it is now. just kind of surprised me that a top grade syn. would lose viscosity that fast. bill

[recumbentbob]

what are you using Rotella 15W40 is conventional oil and 5W40 is synthetic.
You mention both in your post.

[ringadingh]

I use the Rotella T 15W40 and when my bike is cold it reads about 80-90psi on the gauge. After its warmed up it drops to 60-70 psi and idles at around 25psi. Im sure once winter comes with the low temps, I will see 100 psi for a few minutes until it warms up.

[blowndodge]

15/40 Rotella is not synthetic..

[wiz]

How often do you check your oil level?

[Cajunrider]

How often do you check your oil level?

I check the oil level each day before cranking it up for a ride. I also check the coolant level at least once every couple of weeks. Tires and shocks before each ride. I'm almost OCD! http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[ndbigfish]

Mitch,
OCD = Ole Cajun Devil ? http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif ;)

[Cajunrider]

Mitch,
OCD = Ole Cajun Devil ? http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif ;)

That too but I really meant the other OCD. http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif At work they tell me I have a bad case of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder because I won't let anyone with dirty shoes or gloves in the control room and because I'm always cleaning and wiping things down with sanitary wipes. I'm not OCD, I just don't like grime, grease, and germs. http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif Back to the issue at hand, I do like the 5w-40 synthetic oil though.

[AlabamaNomadRider]

You the man Mitch. http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[snarleybill08]

what are you using Rotella 15W40 is conventional oil and 5W40 is synthetic.
You mention both in your post. i'm sorry, i put the wrong viscosity no's. in my post. i meant to say 5w-40 rotella syn.. i use 15w-40 in my v-star 1300. my mistake. :-/

[recumbentbob]

I think the only way to tell if the viscosity is breaking down is to have an oil analysis done. standard analysis $25

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

[snarleybill08]

I think the only way to tell if the viscosity is breaking down is to have an oil analysis done. standard analysis $25

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ that is the sure way to tell. i use the oil pressure gauge for lots of info. in the winter i can tell when the oil is warming up. it is a pretty good way of watching and monitoring viscosity.

[elvis]

Mitch,
OCD = Ole Cajun Devil ? http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif ;)

That too but I really meant the other OCD. http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif At work they tell me I have a bad case of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder because I won't let anyone with dirty shoes or gloves in the control room and because I'm always cleaning and wiping things down with sanitary wipes. I'm not OCD, I just don't like grime, grease, and germs. http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif Back to the issue at hand, I do like the 5w-40 synthetic oil though.

Mitch, are you a stationary engineer [steam engineer or power engineer depending on how it is called in your State] or marine engineer? I think I developed the same kind of "work style" during my time in merchant marine. Double-checking everything, triple-checking vital items and using checklists for operating machinery, etc. I think some people perceive this "work style" a kind of disorder. To me they should double-check their judgment http://s2.images.proboards.com/cool.gif

And I too like the 5w-40 synthetic oil [T6].

[macmac]

Seems to me when the oil breaks down the shifting gets crunchy.......

[trosco]

Snarley: For years I ran Mobile's 15 w 50 full Syn oil in my bikes and in my race car. But a couple years back I had to have my water pump drive shaft replaced on the Nomad. The young guy that did the work for me is a engine builder and he did some work on the heads (minor) at the same time. When we were putting the motor back together he asked what kind of oil I wanted in it. When I told him his reaction was "man, you don't want to do that to your motor" which caused a lengthy discussion.
He spent some time showing me the differences in designed oil flow rates and in the clearances on things like crank shaft thrust surfaces on current era air cooled vs oil cooled vs water cooled bike motors and between tolerances on engines from my era (60's & 70's) and today. He also gave me a lecture on startup vs operating stresses on the motor and it's lubricant
He convinced me that I needed to catch up with the times and a lower viscosity full synthetic oil would be a better choice for my motorcycle. There are a lot of those choices out there if you are willing to pay $6-7-8 or per quart but I am a "frugal" person so I switched to Shell's T6 5w40 full Syn about 24,000 miles ago.

I think I can hear differences in the 5w40 compared to the 15w50 when I get over 3000 miles on it (change interval for me is oil and filter at 4,000 miles). But when I told him that and he said what we hear is a thick fluid suppresses sound more than a thin fluid but that has little to do with how they deal with friction. That comment reminded me of the days when I worked at a used car (in the 60's). We'd put 140w gear oil in differentials and transmission then load them up with saw dust to make them quiet and 50w non detergent oil plus 3-4 cans of the generic version of STP in the engines to quiet them down.
So I have continued to use the lighter weight oil. On trips a couple times I have gotten up over 5000 miles on the oil. When I change it the oil that comes still has that "slippery" feel, it still coats a screwdriver tip well enough that I can't pinch it and hold it and doesn't smell burnt (old guy oil diagnostics) so I think he was probably right.

[snarleybill08]

Snarley: For years I ran Mobile's 15 w 50 full Syn oil in my bikes and in my race car. But a couple years back I had to have my water pump drive shaft replaced on the Nomad. The young guy that did the work for me is a engine builder and he did some work on the heads (minor) at the same time. When we were putting the motor back together he asked what kind of oil I wanted in it. When I told him his reaction was "man, you don't want to do that to your motor" which caused a lengthy discussion.
He spent some time showing me the differences in designed oil flow rates and in the clearances on things like crank shaft thrust surfaces on current era air cooled vs oil cooled vs water cooled bike motors and between tolerances on engines from my era (60's & 70's) and today. He also gave me a lecture on startup vs operating stresses on the motor and it's lubricant
He convinced me that I needed to catch up with the times and a lower viscosity full synthetic oil would be a better choice for my motorcycle. There are a lot of those choices out there if you are willing to pay $6-7-8 or per quart but I am a "frugal" person so I switched to Shell's T6 5w40 full Syn about 24,000 miles ago.

I think I can hear differences in the 5w40 compared to the 15w50 when I get over 3000 miles on it (change interval for me is oil and filter at 4,000 miles). But when I told him that and he said what we hear is a thick fluid suppresses sound more than a thin fluid but that has little to do with how they deal with friction. That comment reminded me of the days when I worked at a used car (in the 60's). We'd put 140w gear oil in differentials and transmission then load them up with saw dust to make them quiet and 50w non detergent oil plus 3-4 cans of the generic version of STP in the engines to quiet them down.
So I have continued to use the lighter weight oil. On trips a couple times I have gotten up over 5000 miles on the oil. When I change it the oil that comes still has that "slippery" feel, it still coats a screwdriver tip well enough that I can't pinch it and hold it and doesn't smell burnt (old guy oil diagnostics) so I think he was probably right. trosco, i agree with you 100%. there is to much importance put on viscosity. i have a tendency to use lighter oils. bearing clearances nowadays are so small that high viscosity oil just won't circulate properly. most people don't realize that the oil slinging off the sides of the con rod bearings is the main oil supply for the piston and rings. a thick oil like 50 weight will starve the piston and rings of adequate lubrication. i don't even like to run 40 weight oil but i think in a v-twin with proper warmup and the low rpm they run it has more than adequate circulation, and offers a muting effect for the primary gears. for those that think oil has to be thick think about chainsaws, and out board motors that use gas and oil mix. they rely on a thin film of oil that is left on bearings and pistons when the fuel evaporates off. in my original post it just surprised me how fast the oil was losing it's viscosity, being the top of the line oil it was. i'm not really concerned about it. heres one to think about that even blows my mind. when i worked in the motor lab at emerson electric in the 60's, we had a motor that had been running for 30 years with the original bronze bearings and lubrication. it had a weighted belt load on the shaft. oillite bearings will run forever with only the lube that is put in the porous bronze bearing material.

[recumbentbob]

Snarley: For years I ran Mobile's 15 w 50 full Syn oil in my bikes and in my race car. But a couple years back I had to have my water pump drive shaft replaced on the Nomad. The young guy that did the work for me is a engine builder and he did some work on the heads (minor) at the same time. When we were putting the motor back together he asked what kind of oil I wanted in it. When I told him his reaction was "man, you don't want to do that to your motor" which caused a lengthy discussion.
He spent some time showing me the differences in designed oil flow rates and in the clearances on things like crank shaft thrust surfaces on current era air cooled vs oil cooled vs water cooled bike motors and between tolerances on engines from my era (60's & 70's) and today. He also gave me a lecture on startup vs operating stresses on the motor and it's lubricant
He convinced me that I needed to catch up with the times and a lower viscosity full synthetic oil would be a better choice for my motorcycle. There are a lot of those choices out there if you are willing to pay $6-7-8 or per quart but I am a "frugal" person so I switched to Shell's T6 5w40 full Syn about 24,000 miles ago.

I think I can hear differences in the 5w40 compared to the 15w50 when I get over 3000 miles on it (change interval for me is oil and filter at 4,000 miles). But when I told him that and he said what we hear is a thick fluid suppresses sound more than a thin fluid but that has little to do with how they deal with friction. That comment reminded me of the days when I worked at a used car (in the 60's). We'd put 140w gear oil in differentials and transmission then load them up with saw dust to make them quiet and 50w non detergent oil plus 3-4 cans of the generic version of STP in the engines to quiet them down.
So I have continued to use the lighter weight oil. On trips a couple times I have gotten up over 5000 miles on the oil. When I change it the oil that comes still has that "slippery" feel, it still coats a screwdriver tip well enough that I can't pinch it and hold it and doesn't smell burnt (old guy oil diagnostics) so I think he was probably right.

Interesting, thanks for posting this.
Do you ever use an oil additive in your oil?

I have a friend that swears by Rotella 15W40 and a little Lucas oil treatment in his air cooled 1700 V star and he did the same for years in his gold wing.
Says it makes them shift better. But I am not one for oil additives.
Bob

[snarleybill08]

Snarley: For years I ran Mobile's 15 w 50 full Syn oil in my bikes and in my race car. But a couple years back I had to have my water pump drive shaft replaced on the Nomad. The young guy that did the work for me is a engine builder and he did some work on the heads (minor) at the same time. When we were putting the motor back together he asked what kind of oil I wanted in it. When I told him his reaction was "man, you don't want to do that to your motor" which caused a lengthy discussion.
He spent some time showing me the differences in designed oil flow rates and in the clearances on things like crank shaft thrust surfaces on current era air cooled vs oil cooled vs water cooled bike motors and between tolerances on engines from my era (60's & 70's) and today. He also gave me a lecture on startup vs operating stresses on the motor and it's lubricant
He convinced me that I needed to catch up with the times and a lower viscosity full synthetic oil would be a better choice for my motorcycle. There are a lot of those choices out there if you are willing to pay $6-7-8 or per quart but I am a "frugal" person so I switched to Shell's T6 5w40 full Syn about 24,000 miles ago.

I think I can hear differences in the 5w40 compared to the 15w50 when I get over 3000 miles on it (change interval for me is oil and filter at 4,000 miles). But when I told him that and he said what we hear is a thick fluid suppresses sound more than a thin fluid but that has little to do with how they deal with friction. That comment reminded me of the days when I worked at a used car (in the 60's). We'd put 140w gear oil in differentials and transmission then load them up with saw dust to make them quiet and 50w non detergent oil plus 3-4 cans of the generic version of STP in the engines to quiet them down.
So I have continued to use the lighter weight oil. On trips a couple times I have gotten up over 5000 miles on the oil. When I change it the oil that comes still has that "slippery" feel, it still coats a screwdriver tip well enough that I can't pinch it and hold it and doesn't smell burnt (old guy oil diagnostics) so I think he was probably right.

Interesting, thanks for posting this.
Do you ever use an oil additive in your oil?

I have a friend that swears by Rotella 15W40 and a little Lucas oil treatment in his air cooled 1700 V star and he did the same for years in his gold wing.
Says it makes them shift better. But I am not one for oil additives.
Bob i never use snakeoil additives. all the major oil companies and auto manufacturers will tell you to stay away from additives. you can actually ruin the additive package in premium oil by using snake oil. they balance the additives in oil in proportions that work together. several of the major snake oil additive manufacturers have been to court for making false claims. stick with a name brand oil in the viscosity that the manual calls for and you can't go wrong. thats a fact.

[trosco]

Re-Bob

The engine builder had said that he could live with the 15w50 Mobile syn or Harleys own oil in the Air cooled Harley full dressers especially the ones with the leg sheilds because of the temps they operate at especially at lower speeds. But said even then he'd recomend adding a oil cooler and then running a 10w40 full syn. And that VStar is air cooled so its probably about the same as the harleys