Tire wear and engine braking

[dougster]

I have been researching for replacing my rear tire, and came across the following statement. I wondered what some of you more experienced riders thought (especially you mech-heads).

"Engine braking is the exercise of downshifting and releasing the clutch through all the gears when coming to a stop. On most modern bikes equipped with disc brakes this old timer's use of the engine to aid in braking is totally unnecessary. Doing so will loose you thousands of serviceable miles on your rear tire, will double the stress on your drive train and could cause your rear wheel to lock (even on a bike with ABS) causing a crash. When coming to a normal stop (red light etc) downshifting commensurate with your speed is still essential to bike safety (in case you need to power out of a jam), but releasing the clutch when doing so is not necessary and adds greatly rear tire flat band center wear. Keep that clutch pulled."

[AlabamaNomadRider]

Doug I don't downshift all the way through the gears. I usually will let the bike slow in 5th and then will downshift to 4th and allow the bike to slow. I do use the brakes both front and rear. I keep gentle pressure on both brakes while slowing. Once I am almost stopped I then downshift all the way to 1st. Can't see that downshifting is going to wear the tires anymore than just using the brake. Just my thought. I will continue to stop by downshifting as stated above.

[ringadingh]

Ive always geared down any manual shift vehicle I drive. I don't think its bad for the vehicle, and it does add greatly to your stopping power. If you gear down properly its fine, if you do it too aggressively you will put a strain on your drive train, but its like anything that has to be learned.

[cactusjack]

What the paragraph is saying is that you don't need to downshift to stop on a modern bike. With our slipper clutches, you can downshift and not lock the rear wheel, which is what the author was cautioning about. He says as you are coming to a stop, pull in the clutch, hold it in while braking, and downshift as appropriate in case you have to speed up again. You don't want to be coming to a stop at 10 MPH while in 5th gear and have to take off quickly.

I still use engine braking, always have and probably always will.

[ringadingh]

In most cases I try to use the gears to slow down while riding around town, and use the brakes just to come to a final stop at a light or stop sign whenever I can.

[macmac]

I use the engine and let out the clutch in gears slow slowing. Like you do getting going in 1st. So what if a wet clutch slips some slowing? That is a non issue since it isn't long enough to cause heat and excessive friction.

I hardley ever use brakes to stop until i am at just a few mph about as fast as a man can walk, or a little tap into a curve if i am a bit too fast at entery.

I got 18,700 on the oem pads and show no sign of wear. That one bad stop last year with the moose was about the only time I really let down the anchors. The one thing I didn't do that night I wished I did was hit the engine kill switch let more compression force the rear tire to bite. I was busy thinking to get stopped and not hit that moose too.

I was downshifting and letting the clutch have at it too. There have been other panic jabs when a cager pulls out on me, but I don't brake long then either.

We can't really skid from the rear down shifting with that slipper clutch design. Maybe the guys with a Barnett Spring can.

Don't get in this guys habit, you want to let out the clutch and use the brakes lesser. Always shifting down when that RPM comes to do so Always.

In a panic stop you don't want to be a neutral condition ever, and that is a bad habit to learn. If you learn it, you will do it in a panic stop, and crash.

[ringadingh]

I installed the Judges washers when I replaced my clutch spring and my wheel will lock up gearing down if you are gearing down to fast. However if you know how to gear down properly it isn't an issue at all.

[Sin City Stan]

First off, the 09 Nomads WILL lock the rear tire when downshifting agressively. It just takes a little learning as to how fast you let the clutch out when downshifting. (What's a slipper clutch?? http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif)

I use downshifting all of the time. It's an old habit. After I'm down to 2nd. gear it's time to get serious about the application of brakes. I don't use first for braking though.

[ringadingh]

A slipper clutch is a built in feature that allows the clutch to slip on downshifts to prevent the wheel from locking up. My opinion is that its there mainly for people that don't know how to ride very well. If it was that great of an idea why wouldn't all bikes, cars, and trucks have it? Perhaps they have done away with it on the 09's.
Ive had about fifteen bikes over the years and the Nomad is the only one Ive ever had with that feature.

[blowndodge]

But Ring,,, every modern Superbike has a slipper clutch... Every one of them! It is a worthwhile feature.

[Dave]

But Ring,,, every modern Superbike has a slipper clutch... Every one of them! It is a worthwhile feature.

Would that be a glass slipper, Cinderella?

[rickb6959]

I have never noticed any problems downshifting. Only time I think it would be a issue is when you go from 4th to 2nd that will really get your attention.

[macmac]

I installed the Judges washers when I replaced my clutch spring and my wheel will lock up gearing down if you are gearing down to fast. However if you know how to gear down properly it isn't an issue at all.

I suspected that, but when the day comes I need that spring it will be Barnett. I had that brand clutch in a 68 Firebird and loved it.

[macmac]

First off, the 09 Nomads WILL lock the rear tire when downshifting agressively. It just takes a little learning as to how fast you let the clutch out when downshifting. (What's a slipper clutch?? http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif)

I use downshifting all of the time. It's an old habit. After I'm down to 2nd. gear it's time to get serious about the application of brakes. I don't use first for braking though.

LOL Yeah, That's what you say now! http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif Til you go n' tear the cogs off the belt it will.




(teasing since you can't really tear the cog off the belt.)

[macmac]

But Ring,,, every modern Superbike has a slipper clutch... Every one of them! It is a worthwhile feature.

BD, Ya fergot the' look'. ::)

Next we get ABS, tire psi sensors, that don't work, anti crash devices that take over if you get with in 3 seconds of a hard object, which means if you ride in a group and someone in the group sees a hot babe, something will be hard, and we can't crash.

Won't that be nice? ::)

I kinda wish we could all go back Retro and have kick starters, de-comp levers, and spark retard.

Used to be the sign of a biker was walking with a limp.

[Sin City Stan]

[quote author=blowndodge board=general thread=19269 post=291118 time=1282095702]

I kinda wish we could all go back Retro and have kick starters, de-comp levers, and spark retard.

Used to be the sign of a biker was walking with a limp.

Reminds me of an old friend 30 years ago who road a Harley. He had a perpetual limp. http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif Between forgetting to retard the spark and kicking that thing over (He was about 5'-4" and 120 lbs. soaking wet.) he was always hurting.

He could ride that bike though.

[macmac]

I was about that weight 30 years ago, but brit irons were my thing then. How I learned Hot To kick start a bike left footed was after I bashed my right knee.

I recall having a really bad time learning to work the modern left side shifter too. That was the brake side back then. So I would go to shift up and have nothing happen, get confused and try with the other foot and miss the shift, and braking??? You can down shift with your left foot and never apply any rear brakes at all but the slowing is rapid just the same when no clutch was used.

[Stump]

I use my gears to slow me down most of the time and the slower I get I then use my breaks , I would reather use my gears so that way if I need to get a jump on a blind cager and get out of his way fast I can get it done before something bad happens . http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[peterdarby]

Engine braking is a hard habit to break after almost forty years of riding but I do it less now. The NPR Tappit Brothers (Click and Clack) once said, when talking about a standard shift car; " Which would you rather do, pay to replace your brake pads or a worn clutch? Now they were talking about cars and not motorcycles but it made sense to me.

[flavor]

IMPO

Needing to stop as fast as you can vs cruising to a stop and everything in between, should determine whether or not to downshift. I downshift on a regular basis when slowing down and do so by bringing the RPM's higher as I'm downshifting, so as to meld the gears. That way you don't feel any jerk or pressure when you release the clutch as you're letting the gear just help slow the bike.

However in a panic stop I don't even think of downshifting. When returning home from the NE rally I was traveling a back road in CT and when coming over a hill there was an intersection about 60 or 70 yds in front of me on the right. I could see a driver checking to his right for but forgot to check back my direction and started to pull out. I locked my rear brake and hit my front bake as hard as I could and broke into a skid for a second or two before he came to a stop halfway in the intersection, when I then released the brakes and called him an ###hole as I was passing him. My brother in law was behind me and said I was skidding out, but though I knew I was skidding, I felt under control. (Been there before). Larry gave the driver the evil look as he went by the driver as he purposely went real slow as he passed him. The point is .... I didn't have time to even think of downshifting.

You know what's sad is I wasn't even worried as I felt so in control I wasn't even worried and I don't know if the bike would have had enough space to stop. (I'm glad I didn't have to find out though).

One thing I really wonder about though is did the driver stop because my amber lights brought attention to my coming on that shaded road, or was it the sound of the tires screeching as I was braking?