Federal Traffic Agency Targeting MC Checkpoints

[Blue Rebel]

Here is a small clip from an article posted by the AMA today.

"A federal traffic safety agency is offering law enforcement agencies hundreds of thousands of dollars to set up checkpoints that target only motorcyclists, and the AMA wants to know why.

The AMA has asked the agency, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), to suspend the grant program until questions raised by the motorcycling community are addressed.

"How do motorcycle-only checkpoints increase the safety of motorcyclists?" Ed Moreland, AMA senior vice president for government relations, wrote in a letter to NHTSA Administrator David Strickland on Aug. 9. "Where do the selected states draw their authority to conduct" motorcycle-only safety checks?"


Someone has a hard on for motorcyclists. You can read the rest of the article in the AMA website.

[Blue Rebel]

Here is a web link for the rest of the story.

http://www.cyclenews.com/mobile/traffic-checkpoints-to-target-motorcyclists

[macmac]

No hablo de englaise ossifers C ya................>

[wompus]

After 47 years of riding I can sorta see why.....
Kids just riding a few months riding on their rear tires 90 mph, dumb ass's doing 90 in a 45 mph zone, Harleys and other bikes with obnoxiously loud pipes, drunks been drinking all day riding on the highways endangering other bikers, people on bikes in general acting like assholes...
I know a lot of riders who refuse to have insurance of any kind.

Yeah, I can see why they might need them. I've been to many a rally where I wished someone would stop some of these clowns acting like fools.
VROC, I've seen members drink all night long and after 2 hours sleep go riding with a group.

At one rally years ago 2 members crashed, ( not too bad) and one said, " I guess I shouldn't have gotten a beer at that last stop!"...?

Those old timers like me knows exactly what I mean, where you young riders think you are bullet proof.

How many times do you hear of these young guts dying because they didn't know what their riding ability was?

I've been down quiet a few times myself, and most were caused by other riders.

Helmets.. I wear mine no matter what the stare law is!

Yep, we do need check points, or something!!



.

[usranger74]

Frankly, I don't know why a the AMA would oppose such.

If MC safety check points will get non-license operations off the road; if they will get those driving on suspended licenses off the roads; if they address those who ride w/o insurance and gets them off the road; if they assist in getting those who are DUI off the road, then I am all for it as it would make the road safer for those of us who follow the law and regulations.

[glwilson]

I am on the fence with this one...

...but, if you aren't breaking the law, then I suppose it wouldn't be a big deal to be stopped... unless you were being pulled-over every day -- which would begin to border on harrassment.

Maybe if you pass a road-check... they could give you some sort of patch showing you passed so you wouldn't have to stop agian!! http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[cactusjack]

The problem as I see it, is that motorcyclists are being singled out. You want to check registrations and insurance? Fine, stop everyone on a motorcycle, in a car or in a truck and check them. Want to screen for drunk drivers? Fine, stop everyone. There are plenty of 4-wheel vehicles on the roads with no insurance, expired tags and operated by drunks.

[skeeter]

If I'm not breaking any law, I don't expect to be stopped for anything. Sounds like KGB tactics. Big brother is watching.... you must comply.... resistance is futile. The next step is to outlaw motorcycles all together. Surely that would prevent people from abusing privilege.

[flightdoc]

I agree with Cactus. All or none. I too have seen many a friends, over the years, get on their bikes after having to much to drink and ride on down the road. I have known of some riders that only got a 30 day permit to ride.......30 years ago and still ride all the time with no license or anything.
I also agree that big brother needs to be careful how far he's allowed to go with this stuff.

vin

[MAS Tequila]

I've been through a couple of these checkpoints in the last year.

They didn't take any time at all. The officers just looked at the licenses and looked to see if they thought you had been drinking.

One officer, when the checkpoint was set up near a popular spot, told us to go ahead and park and he'd be over in a minute.

But, they were checking everyone, not just bikes.

Anything else is profiling. And we know how that is today, especially if you're a minority. And bikers ARE a minority.

MT

[Loafer]

In 1967 central Vermont, they were constantly stopping MC's and no one else. I didn't like it then. I would not like it now.

[oldbikers]

In Mississippi they have check points all the time but as Loafer said they stop everyone.

[sarge1057]

Two years ago I had to stop on my way to Marcus Dairy, and the way they got around the motorcycle only was to say it was a safety check and D.O.T. did the bike inspection,State troopers were just supervising ,and chasing down any motorcyclist that decided not stop. I always thought they needed probable cause to stop anyone. I just think the government is stepping over the line and looking for any way it can to make money through fines. and no I don't like sharing the roads with idiots or drunk drivers, so if your stopping one type of driver stop them all.

[taranis]

This sets a bad precedent in a number of ways. Singling out motorcycles is one thing, stopping everyone, regardless of whether a perceived crime has been committed or not, is entirely another. For those of you that think these all-or-nothing checkpoints are okay, think about this: What are you going to say when they start locking down entire neighborhoods to inspect the inside of your homes and property for illegal drugs, stolen property, people with unpaid tickets, etc. This is not far from that. Regardless of whether you ride or not, your rights are slowly being taken from you.

[sonny]

I am with Wompus and USR on this one. I figure old riders like wompus, I've only been riding 43yrs, may know what they are talking about. Here in La. They recently raised the minimum insurance requirement and my insurance went up $100 a year. Maybe getting the bullet proof drunk "I'm a BIKER" off the road may help keep that from happening again soon. 30yrs ago I would have been who they were looking for and the bikes today are way ahead of what I rode. Also we hurt others, not just us when we screw up. And just sitting here looking at my senior citizen type bike, I could pack 1/4 mil $ worth of good product on it and transport it any where and no one would ever suspect a bike. Once upon a time most crank got around the country that way. It is already done to 18 wheelers, and some states do it to folks hauling live stock for various reasons. In the last 3 years I have known 4 fellas that bought HDs and became instant "bikers". I would not ride with them, and wished some one would get them off the road, they were bad for my image. All 4 of them used some one elses 4 wheel vehicle to take themselves off the road in less than 6 months each. I follow riders out here on Hwy 22 doing 30mph in a 55 zone because they can't ride their bike or pass them in the ditch because BUD told them they could at 90mph on a 40mph curve. I am guilty of not calling these people out, as often as I should, and telling them they are a road hazzard. If we are not going to police ourselves then some one else will.
Thanks for your time

[macmac]

FOR ONE IT IS UN Cons..... Illegal but done all the time. We have the Right to travel un hindered. Road blocks are illegal, but that doesn't stop LEO.

I got stopped in a pick up out in NY. Turned out they were looking for a x con gone bad, but it should have been clear i wasn't him. Instead I was asked stupid questions like where I came from and where was going, and at the time i was lost. I didn't know exactly where I was.

I was asked if searching the vehical for contraban and weapons was ok I said no, and had locked the vehical upon being told to step out.

I didn't have any weapons or contraban, but was in fear that if I let them in my truck some would appear anyway.

They detained me and took everything from my pockets which amounted to a swiss army knife they didn't like and my dammned keys. So they searched anyway, to find nothing.

I remain surprised they didn't find 'something'.

It makes me want to be able to go thru there personal cars and homes in the same way they do us.

Most of you probably haven't been searched before, but i can assure you if and when, you won't like the destruction they do and they wreck things just because they can, and get away with it.

Just one more step in being a police state. Each one and each time they pull this on, just makes it more acceptable to you, and for them next time. I am offended each time this happens to me and they are told so.

[boomerang2120]

I'm definitely in the Everybody or Nobody camp.

Selective enforcement should not be allowed. Let's all the drunks, idiots, and freeloaders off the road not just the ones on bikes.

[usranger74]

Mac may stop helping me with all the questions I PM him with

but,

travel on any road is not a right as outlined in USA Constitution. It is a "privilege" and is subject to Govt. control and restrictions.

I can't and want defend all actions of LEO. Like any profession, there are some who take advantage of their positions/authority.
But, I don't lose site of the fact that the "thin blue line" stands between me (us) and some very bad guys and actions of others.

As far as "selective" safety cks go, I don't see many MCs or cars pulling into the State Inspections Stations along interstates - only big rigs. My point being, selective LE actions/safety cks occur all the time on our highways. And, most folks are thankful for it (I think).

[xncrman]

I stand in Wompas corner on this one. Motorcycle traffic accidents and deaths are up this year. I've been riding for 34 years on the road and spent my time in hospital too. I don't think it's a government coup to take black jacket riders off the road, only those few folks that cause a bad name for all the rest.

As for checkpoints and police, if you have a bad cop out there he's gonna stop you for the way you look and what you ride without any Federal money!

[blowndodge]

Ranger as much as I understand your position, freely giving peace officer's information that can only implicate you and not exonerate you from what they are looking for is something ill advised.

But I do know they have a tough job to do.

[Blue Rebel]

I'm definitely in the Everybody or Nobody camp.

Selective enforcement should not be allowed. Let's all the drunks, idiots, and freeloaders off the road not just the ones on bikes.

You all make valid comments and I agree with all.

I just don't agree with them spending all that money targeting MC's. Why not use the funds to beef up the check points they have already, focus on ALL motorists and try to reduce the number of drunks on the road???? 4 wheel and 2 wheels alike.

MC only check points wouldn't have saved those 4 riders in Omaha killed by an expected DUI or the rider in Indianapolis killed by an on duty officer who was double over the legal limit, or the 8 cyclists in Arizona, 4 which were killed, when a dump truck smashed into the back of all 8 bikes. Driver of the truck was under the influence of illegal drugs.

I have been riding for almost 30 yrs. I'm totally legal, (insurance, registration, bike saftey). I don't speed, but I do like my loud pipes, and occasionally ride w/o helmet.

[Loafer]

We have different views on different subject matters. We are human, and were raised in families, with different ideas on life. I say we are all right to a certain point. Are freedoms are being eroded and I'm not liking it. Selective enforcement does happen. I drove a truck for 31 years, and the "all trucks stop" signs used to really pi$$ me off. Evidently, they would notice I didn't like it. And would do the full undercarriage to looking at the load inspection. Used to drive me crazy. They never found anything. It amounts to harrasment in my mind.

[Netnorske]

While check-points have their touchy-feely good points....they also border on Gestapo tactics. We are losing enough rights in our country as it is...we don't need to lose any more. Give an inch....lose a mile....punish the many innocents for the sake of the few law-breakers. Not such a great idea... :-/....JMHO.

[drhart]

"Your papers are not in order"

[drhart]

All, Sorry my last post may have come across flippant so, I want to correct that. I don't like sharing the road with drunks or irresponsible riders but, I think there is a difference bewteen wondering is someone is either of the above and having probable cause to suspect it. Like the quote " Our system isn't perfect but, it is best I've seen". The word checkpoint scares me a little. Be Safe

[poppy]

I don't have a problem with sobriety checkpoints, or even safety checkpoints. For all vehicles that is. There are numerous idiots on the road at any given time, operating all types of conveyance.

Unfortunately, as mentioned in an earlier post, alcohol always seems to be a huge activity during some motorcycle events.

[kenb]

I am asked to show ID when I purchase alcohol, ammunition, or use a credit card. Every now and then I can accept having to prove I have a license and insurance to drive/ride. A random check point for all vehicles and drivers is acceptable to me. Not everyone has a license/insurance to have the priviledge to drive/ride and they should be "educated". To single out motorcycles is wrong.

[ridemslow]

DITTO!


The problem as I see it, is that motorcyclists are being singled out. You want to check registrations and insurance? Fine, stop everyone on a motorcycle, in a car or in a truck and check them. Want to screen for drunk drivers? Fine, stop everyone. There are plenty of 4-wheel vehicles on the roads with no insurance, expired tags and operated by drunks.

[macmac]

First of USRANGER it is silly to think I might stop helping you. Hog wash, no idea how that idea came to be.

I am not exactly correct either, but..........

http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#travel

The Right To Travel

As the Supreme Court notes in Saenz v Roe, 98-97 (1999), the Constitution does not contain the word "travel" in any context, let alone an explicit right to travel (except for members of Congress, who are guaranteed the right to travel to and from Congress). The presumed right to travel, however, is firmly established in U.S. law and precedent. In U.S. v Guest, 383 U.S. 745 (1966), the Court noted, "It is a right that has been firmly established and repeatedly recognized." In fact, in Shapiro v Thompson, 394 U.S. 618 (1969), Justice Stewart noted in a concurring opinion that "it is a right broadly assertable against private interference as well as governmental action. Like the right of association, ... it is a virtually unconditional personal right, guaranteed by the Constitution to us all." It is interesting to note that the Articles of Confederation had an explicit right to travel; it is now thought that the right is so fundamental that the Framers may have thought it unnecessary to include it in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.
Thanks to Marko Liias for the idea. Thanks to W.H. van Atteveldt for the note about Congressional travel.

[glwilson]

Gee Mac... you type just fine when you get real serious!! http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[macmac]

I am the mnaster od copy n' paste Sir. http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[Idaho]

I'm not a LEO but I have had a little to do with them for the last 20 or so years. I helped set up the first Mulitagency DUI Task Force in Idaho and have served as a State Police Chaplain now for about 12 years. Have ridden with lots of officers on patrol and provided my input as a civilian adviser to the DUI Task Force Board and then proudly served on that Board when invited by the LE community.

I have always advocated for taffic checkpoints to randomly stop vehicles to find felons, drunks, druggies, and miscreants. The LEO's did not always agree with me because they are very concerned about citizens rights and about how their reputations can become tarnished.

This topic sort of puts all of us on motorcycles in the same vein as hispanics in Arizona in a way and it is a bit unsettling. I don't think that just cyclists should be stopped, rather it should be a random sample of all vehicles. I know that there are plenty of you will disagree with that but there are a lot of innocent people who are maimed and killed by drunk and drugged drivers and I'm for whatever it takes to get them off the road.

I will say that if they start targeting just motorcycles I will be at the front of the line to file a lawsuit after I've been stopped and inspected.

[markusmaximus]

Who checks the checker?

http://www.indystar.com/article/20100811/NEWS02/100811007/Warrant-issued-for-cop-s-arrest-in-crash

[flavor]

Without cause......stop everyone or stop no one.

[macmac]

I have been stopped fo no cause, but a officer will claim flickering tail lights. My tail lights do not flicker, except on my Nomad which has a Back off and I have never been stopped for that other than Border Patrol twice.

Any officer can smoke up a pipe dream and find a cause. I fear getting a plant, since i have long hair. The less me and cops come into contact with one another, the better off we both are.

I have been stopped plenty and to no avail for the cops.

I get stopped in my buck skins for cryin out loud, and with a truck pulling a trailer with a horse in it. I wasn't happy, and after 45 minutes of fishing I demanded to be arrested.

I had 5 more hours of trailing that horse to get home in NH, coming from Swatara Pa, apx 14 hours + since towing horses isn't fast.

That cop wasted my time, his time which he was PAID for, and sucked up tax paid money.

Yeah I was in Mass and had a FLINTLOCK Pistol that cop tried to open at the breech. He nearly cracked the stock. Meanwhile in his glory, he was so worked up that if I wanted i could have shot him with his own Glock. He lost all his awareness of where he was, and where I was, and I was right there at his holster looking over him his belt and his gun.

If I were a real bad guy that cop would have been dead.

His excuse was my clothing, like it is common a thigh length shirt made of buck skin with long fringe on the sleeves is seen commonly in crimes.

I feared getting a baggie of weed from him too.

The whole bench seat in that truck was littered with museum quality fooferaw for the American Fur Trade, so much I could have done another Jerhimah Johnson flick, but nothing was close to illegal.

Some how that cop saw me eatting, in a not running truck feed my horse, water it with buckets the food place gave me from a outside spigot, and I drove on to Rt 2 to get back on I- 91.

He stopped me before the trailer was even straight, and i stopped like that, forcing traffic to go around me.

So no, I disagree with being bothered a bit buy any one when I am going about my business.

Thats what the Soviets do, not here in America land of the Free.