Darkside "sweet spot" changing ??

[recumbentbob]

I put the CT on in April found the sweet spot to be 28 PSI on a 08 Nomad. Works great now that it's HOT 94-97 Deg the rear end feels mushy.
I checked the shock bolts, swing arm bolt every thing is tight.
Yesterday and today I upped to 30 PSI, still feels mushy but not quite as bad.
I increased the damping on the rear shocks to #3 setting, shocks have 15 psi in them. Still feels mushy and rear end wants to wander in certain highway conditions.

Felt a little better after increasing the damping but still not what it was when colder and 28 PSI.

Any suggestions??

Bob

[macmac]

How many miles?
When was the last swing arm service?
Do you have digtial calipers?

[Cajunrider]

Bob, I had been running 26 or 27 psig in the CT and upped it to 29 yesterday. I found that the sidewall on the SP 5000 was a little soft in the higher temperatures. Feels better now. Riding 2 up I keep the shock rebound at III and 35 psi in the shocks. Riding alone, I drop the shock pressures to 20 psi, if I think about it.

[ringadingh]

Try about 34lbs and see if that makes a difference, then drop a pound or two until you find the sweet spot again. Its easier to notice a change if you make a fairly large change and then adjust down again.

[recumbentbob]

How many miles?
When was the last swing arm service?
Do you have digtial calipers?

3500 miles on tire, 10,500 on bike

Swing arm service in april when I put the tire on.

I have digital calipers and a digital tread depth gauge.

I plan on putting 25 psi in the shock in the morning. Ride it and see, then I'll take the suggestion of 34 Psi and going working back down and see.

The tire is a continental vanco2 size 195-65-16 it's a pretty heavy tire i was surprised at what happened to the handling in the hot weather.

[ringadingh]

Does it handle different everywhere on all roads, or just on certain roads?
It may be the pavement on that particular road.
Last Sunday I was at a freinds house and when I pulled onto his street, I thought something broke in my steering for a moment while cornering. Upon leaving, the bike did the same thing again.
I found out it was the pavement and tar snakes on his street that caused this. On other roads my bike is the same as always since.

[Cajunrider]

Ring, I wasn't aware that you had gone DS. What tire are you running?

[ringadingh]

Im not running one yet, maybe oneday.

[Top Cat]

It's things like this that make me want to keep my MC tires.
Hey, I'm just saying......................... ;)

[AlabamaNomadRider]

TC I was going to make a suggestion that he switch to a MC tire but figured I would get booed.

[recumbentbob]

TC I was going to make a suggestion that he switch to a MC tire but figured I would get booed.

Just a little looseness not a big enough problem to even consider going back to a MC tire................ http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[Cajunrider]

TC I was going to make a suggestion that he switch to a MC tire but figured I would get booed.

Just a little looseness not a big enough problem to even consider going back to a MC tire................ http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

That's for sure. ;)

[lonewolf]

would gladly put up with a lil mushy, than to go back to mounting tires twice a year !

[VulcanE]

I've been run a Goodyear TripleTred 205/60-16 for a year now, and I base my "sweet spot" on what the hot "running" pressure is. I have the TPS (Tire Pressure Monitoring System by Show Chrome) and this makes it very easy to know what your pressure is at all times. My "sweet spot" is 32 psi when hot, so the cold pressure will vary with the ambient temperature of the seasons. The GYTT does have very ridged sidewalls, I normally run ~25 psi in the shocks, and dampening is set on III.
When you did your swing arm service, did you replace the rubber seals on both sides that go between the frame and swing arm?

[recumbentbob]

When you did your swing arm service, did you replace the rubber seals on both sides that go between the frame and swing arm?

yes i did.

I'm getting ready to air the rear tire to 34 psi and go ride.

Tomorrow I'll run 32 psi and see, I have a 150 mile ride tomorrow combination interstate and twisties.
I'm convinced it was just too low of air pressure for the hot weather. I didn't image ambient temp would have that large an effect on it.

[jesse]

I switched to the Goodyear tripple Tread a few weeks befor the SCR. I reeeaally like it! People that have followed me have commented on how the ct molds to the road, can't beleive that I am not ridding on the edge of a tire. I have not noticed any change in the tire because of the heat. I also run about 20psi in the shocks, and 30psi in the tire.

[ridemslow]

I use a different tire, the Achilles. I run 40psi, keep the damper on 2 and run 25 psi in the shocks. To this point, I have noticed no difference in the way the bike rides or handles. I of course weigh a bit more than you lightweights, at about 280#, and I probly don't get to ride as much, but like Ring, says, start high and work your way down. Brad will probaly agree as would macmac on that, once you find the warm weather sweetspot, make note, and then watch for the cold weather sweet spot.

[ridemslow]

When you did your swing arm service, did you replace the rubber seals on both sides that go between the frame and swing arm?

yes i did.

I'm getting ready to air the rear tire to 34 psi and go ride.

Tomorrow I'll run 32 psi and see, I have a 150 mile ride tomorrow combination interstate and twisties.
I'm convinced it was just too low of air pressure for the hot weather. I didn't image ambient temp would have that large an effect on it.


"I didn't image ambient temp would have that large an effect on it."

I think it all depends on the brand/type tire too. Just my 2 cents again.

[recumbentbob]

92 deg F, 25 psi in shocks, damping set to #3, 34 psi in tire.

A lot better but still not the same as it was in 50 deg weather. Maybe it won't be until it cools down some. (or I have a belt shifting in the tire).

I'm going to ride it like this and maybe play with the tire pressure some and see; I think tomorrow I'll go up to 36 cold and then work my way back down during next week.

[Cajunrider]

Bob, It sounds like there may be another issue besides tire pressure. Maybe get a friend to follow you and watch the tire in curves. Might see something that way. If not, I'd lift the bike and turn the rear tire looking for any irregularities in the tread pattern or bumps on the sidewall. I can't understand why you would have to raise the pressure that many pounds for it to compensate for the 95/50 degree ambient temperature differential. I increased my pressure from 26 to 29 and it feels like it made a world of difference. At 26 psi and riding 2 up, I was dragging my stock pipes before the floorboards when leaning in curves. Not happening anymore.

[recumbentbob]

Bob, It sounds like there may be another issue besides tire pressure. Maybe get a friend to follow you and watch the tire in curves. Might see something that way. If not, I'd lift the bike and turn the rear tire looking for any irregularities in the tread pattern or bumps on the sidewall. I can't understand why you would have to raise the pressure that many pounds for it to compensate for the 95/50 degree ambient temperature differential. I increased my pressure from 26 to 29 and it feels like it made a world of difference. At 26 psi and riding 2 up, I was dragging my stock pipes before the floorboards when leaning in curves. Not happening anymore.

I put it on the jack to set pressure in the shocks, rotated rear tire couldn't see or feel anything. No side to side play in the swing arm.
yesterday I was riding with a friend and had him follow and check the rear and he couldn't see anything either.
So maybe a belt is starting to shift in the tire. I've had that happen on my car before.

[Cajunrider]

What brand/size tire Bob and how much mileage?

[cactusjack]

I was going on a ride today to try out my new cool vest. First stop was the bank, about 3 miles from home. I pulled out of my driveway and the rear tire felt "squirrely". Something wasn't right. I went a couple of blocks and pulled over and got off the bike to see if something was wrong. Nothing looked odd, so I continued to the bank. When I left the bank, I came back home and checked my tire pressure. 42 front, 31 rear. Right where it should be.

I went on my ride of about 72 miles, just made a big loop on a couple of freeways. I think it was probably heat-related. They resurfaced the streets in my neighborhood with some kind of sealant that gets kind of slick in the extreme heat.

[recumbentbob]

What brand/size tire Bob and how much mileage?

Continental vanco2 tire, 195-65-16, 3500 miles

[Kawhead]

I switched to the Goodyear tripple Tread a few weeks befor the SCR. I reeeaally like it! People that have followed me have commented on how the ct molds to the road, can't beleive that I am not ridding on the edge of a tire. I have not noticed any change in the tire because of the heat. I also run about 20psi in the shocks, and 30psi in the tire. I had another ct on my first Nomad and when I seen the GYTT on VulcaE's bike, that's what I put on this one. I'm a crazy fool for my GYTT! It make an already beautiful bike drop dead gorgeous with that breathtaking tread design!

I got three and 20#'s on the shocks and 'bout 28psi in the GYTT.


Oh how I long for the days when I had two mt's and never had a tyre problem.
::) :) ;) http://s2.images.proboards.com/cheesy.gif http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif http://s2.images.proboards.com/angry.gif:(" title=">:(" border="0"/> :( http://s2.images.proboards.com/shocked.gif http://s2.images.proboards.com/cool.gif ??? ::) http://s2.images.proboards.com/tongue.gif :-[ http://s2.images.proboards.com/lipsrsealed.gif :-/ :-* :'( http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[coacha]

would gladly put up with a lil mushy, than to go back to mounting tires twice a year !

I hear that! That is good beer money wasted http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[recumbentbob]

With the triple tread are there any clearance issues?
Did it correct your speedometer error any?

I guess the size is 205-60-16 is that correct?

If this doesn't clear up A GTT or General Altimax is next.

[VulcanE]

On my bike (2005 1600) once mounted, the TripleTred fits fine. There is only .09" of clearance between the swing arm (driveshaft side) and the tire. I have had no rubbing, and have over 5,000 miles on the tire with no measurable wear. The only issue is that to get the tire up under the fender, you have to remove the final drive, then put the tire/wheel under the fender, then replace the final drive. The reason for this is because it just will not fit between the final drive gear and the other side of the swing arm, even if you deflate the tire.

[Kawhead]

On my bike (2005 1600) once mounted, the TripleTred fits fine. There is only .09" of clearance between the swing arm (driveshaft side) and the tire. I have had no rubbing, and have over 5,000 miles on the tire with no measurable wear. The only issue is that to get the tire up under the fender, you have to remove the final drive, then put the tire/wheel under the fender, then replace the final drive. The reason for this is because it just will not fit between the final drive gear and the other side of the swing arm, even if you deflate the tire.After that torque your axle then torque the final drive to the swing arm. Otherwise, you'll pull the drive shaft tube into your tire and you'll :'( .

[recumbentbob]

After that torque your axle then torque the final drive to the swing arm. Otherwise, you'll pull the drive shaft tube into your tire and you'll :'( .

What does that cause torquing the final drive first?

When I did the swing arm maint I torqued the swing arm axle, then the final drive then the rear wheel axle.

[flavor]

I don't know about the ideal sweet spot but I'm no engineer. I've been riding with 34 lbs in my Dunlop sp5000 195-60 CT and have tried different pressures, both higher and lower. I run 15 lbs in my shocks on the second setting and am happy with the combination. I ride mostly 1 up as my wife Pat has hip and tail bone issues that keep her from enjoying motorcycles. But I have to say she has NEVER asked me NOT to ride. Hell she even let me put 9500 miles on the bike cross country last year by myself.

[Kawhead]

After that torque your axle then torque the final drive to the swing arm. Otherwise, you'll pull the drive shaft tube into your tire and you'll :'( .

What does that cause torquing the final drive first?

When I did the swing arm maint I torqued the swing arm axle, then the final drive then the rear wheel axle.I mounted a GYTTA 2005/60-16. A very wide tire for the Nomad which when mounted correctly will allow you approximately three credit card thickness between the drive shat tube and the tire. By trial and error I found that when I torqued the final drive to the swing arm first, and torqued the axle next, that action pulled the shaft tube to the tire causing it to rub.

After I loosed everything and settled my nerves I tried torquing the axle first then the final drive. Problem solved. The tire hasn't rubbed since. I don't know if that procedure is common knowledge, but it's a good idea to do it that way with any tire to prevent metal fatigue on the swing arm.


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edit: to make sure there's no confusion, when I mentioned axle I was referring to the wheel axle.

[VulcanE]

I agree with Mike. The correct way to do it is to torque the swing arm pivot bolt, get the tire under the bike and install the final drive finger tight ( it has to be flush with the flange on the driveshaft tube, but still be able to move a little) Install the rear axle with all its components (spacers, caliper bracket, etc. ) then torque the axle, then torque the caliper bracket bolt, then torque the final drive to the driveshaft tube, last.

[pooker]

After that torque your axle then torque the final drive to the swing arm. Otherwise, you'll pull the drive shaft tube into your tire and you'll :'( .

What does that cause torquing the final drive first?

When I did the swing arm maint I torqued the swing arm axle, then the final drive then the rear wheel axle.I mounted a GYTTA 2005/60-16. A very wide tire for the Nomad which when mounted correctly will allow you approximately three credit card thickness between the drive shat tube and the tire. By trial and error I found that when I torqued the final drive to the swing arm first, and torqued the axle next, that action pulled the shaft tube to the tire causing it to rub.

After I loosed everything and settled my nerves I tried torquing the axle first then the final drive. Problem solved. The tire hasn't rubbed since. I don't know if that procedure is common knowledge, but it's a good idea to do it that way with any tire to prevent metal fatigue on the swing arm.


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edit: to make sure there's no confusion, when I mentioned axle I was referring to the wheel axle.


I seem to be missing something here, I mounted a General 205/60-15 to my Nomad.
The tire was so wide that it wouldn't fit unless I let out all the air!
Once in place,........I just put the axle in and tightened it, put air in the tire and drove away and I haven't looked back.
Oh, I ride 32 hot air pressure, 25 lbs in the shocks and #3,...I ride solo

[recumbentbob]

I mounted a GYTTA 2005/60-16. A very wide tire for the Nomad which when mounted correctly will allow you approximately three credit card thickness between the drive shat tube and the tire. By trial and error I found that when I torqued the final drive to the swing arm first, and torqued the axle next, that action pulled the shaft tube to the tire causing it to rub.

After I loosed everything and settled my nerves I tried torquing the axle first then the final drive. Problem solved. The tire hasn't rubbed since. I don't know if that procedure is common knowledge, but it's a good idea to do it that way with any tire to prevent metal fatigue on the swing arm.


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edit: to make sure there's no confusion, when I mentioned axle I was referring to the wheel axle.


I seem to be missing something here, I mounted a General 205/60-15 to my Nomad.
The tire was so wide that it wouldn't fit unless I let out all the air!
Once in place,........I just put the axle in and tightened it, put air in the tire and drove away and I haven't looked back.
Oh, I ride 32 hot air pressure, 25 lbs in the shocks and #3,...I ride solo

I think what you missed is they removed the wheel and the final drive hub to install they GTT.

[pooker]

I seem to be missing something here, I mounted a General 205/60-15 to my Nomad.
The tire was so wide that it wouldn't fit unless I let out all the air!
Once in place,........I just put the axle in and tightened it, put air in the tire and drove away and I haven't looked back.
Oh, I ride 32 hot air pressure, 25 lbs in the shocks and #3,...I ride solo

I think what you missed is they removed the wheel and the final drive hub to install they GTT.

Oh, okay,......................I hope that doesn't mean I did something wrong when I installed my General

[Kawhead]

Well pooker, I'l put it this way. I'm sure a 205/60-16 is a 205/60-16. I would rest easier if you would put your bike on the jack, first chance you get, give your tire a spin and make sure your it isn't rubbing the shaft tube. The way I did it was jack the bike up and laid under it so I could see the clearance between the shat tube and the tire. If it is rubbing just loosen the final drive acorn nuts and retorque. them.

[Kawhead]

I agree with Mike. The correct way to do it is to torque the swing arm pivot bolt, get the tire under the bike and install the final drive finger tight ( it has to be flush with the flange on the driveshaft tube, but still be able to move a little) Install the rear axle with all its components (spacers, caliper bracket, etc. ) then torque the axle, then torque the caliper bracket bolt, then torque the final drive to the driveshaft tube, last.Exactly!!!! I didn't say it better myself! http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[pooker]

Well pooker, I'l put it this way. I'm sure a 205/60-16 is a 205/60-16. I would rest easier if you would put your bike on the jack, first chance you get, give your tire a spin and make sure your it isn't rubbing the shaft tube. The way I did it was jack the bike up and laid under it so I could see the clearance between the shat tube and the tire. If it is rubbing just loosen the final drive acorn nuts and retorque. them.

Here's mine;
http://s71.photobucket.com/albums/i145/pooker_langton/Dark%20Side/

[Kawhead]

Great job pooker! I wish I had the patience to photograph my work like that. Or the presence of mind. ;)

[dkdixie]

Not so sure Bob has run into a mounting problem.

When we left for the June S/E rally in Virginia, I forgot that I had lowered the pressure on my relatively new Vredestein Quatrac 2 to 26lbs. During the week long trip, noticed tire felt "sluggish" on some road surfaces, mainly tar and gravel, or surfaces not entirely smooth.
It wasn't a slippery feel, just felt it took more effort to hold the line in curves. Even mentioned this to Cliff on the way back from VA.
Noticed the same thing when back in Georgia on roads I ride all the time. Bumped the pressure back up to 30lbs and all feels normal.
Only consistent point during this 3 week period was temperatures were 90 plus.

[recumbentbob]

I increased pressure to 38 psi helped some but still did it.
This morning dropped to 36 psi got worse. This is starting to drive me Crazy.

It was 95 Deg F today.
I have an infrared laser type thermometer and over the last 2 months just for kicks I have been checking the front and rear tire temp, the rear Vanco 2 CT was always about 20 Deg F cooler than the Avon Cobra front tire.

Today when I got home from work I checked the tire temp and the Ct was hotter than the front tire.

I have a feeling that the belts inside the tire are shifting and I think this temp thing probably confirms it.

I put the bike on the jack last Sat and spun the rear wheel and inspected the tire everything looks good. I had a friend follow me and he can't see anything abnormal. So I think it is the belts shifting inside the tire.

I think next week I'll pull the rear wheel and replace the Vanco 2 195-65-16 with either a Goodyear triple tread or a General Altimax in 205-60-16.

[nomaderwatiamriden]

i am running the dunlop ss 5000 wiyh 40 psi in them feels great! why r all of u running so low a tire pressure? about 4000 miles so far.

[recumbentbob]

i am running the dunlop ss 5000 wiyh 40 psi in them feels great! why r all of u running so low a tire pressure? about 4000 miles so far.

To keep the center of the tire from wearing out.

[dkdixie]

i am running the dunlop ss 5000 wiyh 40 psi in them feels great! why r all of u running so low a tire pressure? about 4000 miles so far.



My DunlopSP5000 lasted less than 16K running 36lb and that was after I lowered it from 38lb. Too late to save the center.

[blowndodge]

As mac has pointed out numerous times, one should wet the back tire and take a look at the track is leaves on the ground. With 25lbs of air in my truck tire, only the extreme outer edges of the outside tread (1/4 inch both sides) dont touch but my tire was slightly rounded to begin with new. Thats why I bought it. I have 10K miles on it now and I've actually lost 1/32 of an inch. All 3 tire grooves measure the same depth..

[lonewolf]

i am running the dunlop ss 5000 wiyh 40 psi in them feels great! why r all of u running so low a tire pressure? about 4000 miles so far.



My DunlopSP5000 lasted less than 16K running 36lb and that was after I lowered it from 38lb. Too late to save the center.
My sp 5000 lasted a mere 11000 after wearing out the center by having my psi up to 36. my new sp 5000 will be set at 30 psi.

[recumbentbob]

Update.

I had the dealer repack and set the steering head bearings a little on the tight side.

Rode home with no wobble but still the loose feeling in the rear.

So today I put 50 Psi in the vanco 2 tire. Got some liquid white shoe polish and painted a white line 2 inches wide the width of the tread.

Rode 2 miles white was wore off in the middle so I dropped the air pressure 5 psi. rode 3 miles the white was worn off even across the whole tread. Rode to the highway repainted the white dropped 5 psi and rode 10 miles the handling was great and the white was worn even all the way across.

Repainted and dropped another 5 psi and rode home. Was fine on the highway but loose on the 2 lane county road. White was worn even all across the tread.

Added 5 psi back in as soon as I got home. this put me at 46 psi hot.

I have some running around to do on it tonight and will double check the dhandling
If everything is OK then I'll check pressure in the morning cold and this will be my new pressure. 80 MPH rock solid and no wobble....

This is on a 2008 Nomad and I would have never thought that with the 6 ply truck tire I would need this much air in it.

Oh well I'm glad it's not the tire and you learn something every day.

Bob