Dealer claiming profit down

[flavor]

Was at the dealer recently and when talking to one of the service counter guys who's been around forever. He was talking about having a lot of work, business etc. but profit decreasing. The first example he brought up was loss in tire profit. He blames the internet and it's sales. Bringing up the fact that I can buy a motorcycle tire about $30 cheaper on the internet then what he want to charge me for the same tire, I basically said "what do you expect"... Then you want to charge $35 to put it on.......

He mentioned they were considering not even mounting tires that weren't even bought there. I told him that wouldn't be an issue for me because because I mount my own tires and don't have to worry about balancing because I use Dynabeads, right before I mentioned I have a car tire on the rear.

Now don't get me wrong this dealer has been around bikes of many types for a long time (3rd generation) and racing all circuits, but it's time for them to change their mindset.

I bought my Nad as a leftover for $10,000 when he wanted almost $13,000 and wouldn't budge. I bought it from Toledo OH and had it shipped for $500. Paid taxes in RI on the sale and saved boo-cu dollars. Wake up...............if you work with people and look to increase sales you don't have to make a killing on one bike.......and sell higher volumes of bikes........as well.

Don't charge exorbitant prices for aftermarket and dealer parts.

Utilize the Internet more because there is so much potential.................

Anyway I've said my piece.

[phred]

Well said and well spoken.

[audiogooroo]

Every business man I know (myself included) has had to rethink their business model in order to survive in this economy. You adapt or you die. It's that simple.

[kenb]

There should be some incentive for the "service counter guy" to bring such conversations with customers to the manager/owner to revamp the business plan. He also knows there still is the customer that will buy goods and services from them no matter what the cost. He also knows there are people that go elsewhere for goods and services as well. He also has to put up with people that tell him they can get goods and services cheaper and can do it themselves. He knows they will usually buy something sooner or later. Its part of doing business.

[ringadingh]

If the suppliers on the internet can buy parts and sell them cheaper and still turn a profit I don't know why a dealer can't be competitive also. Most dealers stock very little inventory nowadays, therefore when they have to bring it in for you its already sold. They get there money when you pick it up and the deals done. I think some dealers are still living in the past where they think they are the only show in town.

[audiogooroo]

No doubt that dealers have a much greater overhead than web vendors. But some of the price differences are a bit much. Again, yet another reason to re-evaluate the way they do business.

[ringadingh]

No doubt that dealers have a much greater overhead than web vendors. But some of the price differences are a bit much. Again, yet another reason to re-evaluate the way they do business.
They do have more overhead, but there is nothing stopping them from selling online as well.
Smith Bros. in Alabama used to sell online when they had Sam in the parts dept, she's gone and they stopped selling online.
I called to buy a ignition switch, and she told me they don't ship to Canada. They didn't want to get involved with cross border shipping. A lot of places are intimated by shipping here, but once you do it, its really no different than any other location, a small form is all the extra paperwork to complete.

[AlabamaNomadRider]

Speaking of the cost of mounting a tire and balancing my local Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha dealer charges $73 to take your wheel off your bike then take the old tire off and then balance and mount the new tire. He did mentioned that the balance carries a lifetime guarantee. Thanks a lot.

I purchased a Memphis Shades windshield off the internet for the last Honda I owned and it was being sold by a dealer in Arkansas at a very good price. So some dealers are using the internet. Others are behind the times.

[glwilson]

"Deflation"...

It has been happening all around in bits and pieces within various industries and businesses for the last three years.

Many businesses realize a bottom-line profit decrease in this cycle.

While it could be argued there is a benefit enjoyed by some in a deflationary environment; there are plenty of others that will lose the battle against its effects altogether.

The real problem in a deflationary cycle will be when interest rates rise to much higher levels; while downward price pressure continues to reduce profit margins. If you add-in stagnant growth of the GDP; which is typically the result when reduced profits are realized... well... now you have a concoction that most don't want to live through; and is in fact what many fear the most at the moment.

At that point... it becomes a real serious problem whereby the tools of the "FED" become almost useless to help -- thus those promoting Keynes' economic theory will find out why it is a flawed theory.

This IS the FED's biggest fear at the moment; because his tool-box is nearly empty.

On a good note... typically in history, it is during these periods where new industries, inventions, and such are created -- which have been known to lead into new cycles of prosperity.

[cactusjack]

Just because you are a motorcycle dealer, it doesn't make you an astute businessman. If these dealers could see beyond nickel and diming their customers to death, they would find there are a lot of things customers are willing to pay for. Value-added services, accessories, apparel and the like. Look at all the crap you can buy in an H-D dealership. People will pay for good service, but when you have to keep their bike in the shop a week because you don't stock a $3 gasket, the customer sees that as a week of riding lost forever.

I do my own wrenching, not because I'm cheap - because I want to know what work was done and that it was performed correctly. My dealer (who is no longer in business) was open inconvenient hours, didn't call to let me know my bike was done (I had to call them), and asked me how many cylinders my Nomad had once when I called to schedule an oil change. Make it hard for your customers to do business with you and your customers will go elsewhere.

[borto1990]

my local dealer sucks and I about refuse to go to him unless I"m in a pinch. when I bought my bike, I had cash in hand and he would barely look at me, went 30 miles away to another dealer and got the same bike 2K cheaper. I think, to me anyways, having some of the basic accessories IN STOCK... would go a LONG way. maybe like the popular grips, highway pegs and clamps. I just had an instance where I needed to switch my highway pegs from my 750 vulcan to the nomad. I needed new kury quick clamps.. NO ONE this side of the state had them in stock. I would have GLADLY spent oh, 20 bucks more then internet price to have them on for this ride. but hell, if I had to wait for them to order, I might as well do it myself. which is what I did.

[flightdoc]

Doing business with dealers can be difficult for sure. I'm considering purchasing a new Voyager and went to the local dealer I purchase accessories and those type of things from, the past seven years, and told them what I was considering and asked them if they were negotiable concerning pricing the way many dealers are who advertise on the internet......they said no way, won't discount a penny off the price of a bike and that if I did buy it elsewhere "where was I going to get it serviced from"?? Sounded like a threat to me. it bugs me that I give them a great deal of my hard earned cash and then the "real" dealer comes out of the closet for the big purchase. I guess they have the right to do it the way they want to do business but I would think, if it were me, that if a customer purchases a bike elsewhere that they would be very happy to service it for you. You'll most likely purchase aftermarket stuff for your bike thru them. When I get the answer I got and the attitude I'll just ake my money elsewhere......which is my right!!

vin

[nomad561]

The local dealer here won't get another dime of my money. I took my Nomad in for a rear tire change after I was told it would be $60 for the service. Dropped my bike off in the afternoon and called them the next day to schedule a time to pick it up.I was told it wasn't ready call back later. When I called later I was told it wouldn't be ready until the next day. I showed up to pick up my bike and was given a bill for $130. When I asked what the extra $70 over the quote I was given was for,I was told it was because they had to remove the bags . Talked to the tech,the service manager and the general manager. Pretty much got the same story"if you don't like the way we do business, go somewhere else. They ARE the ONLY Kawa dealer in the the area but not the only authorized service center.
BTW- they are hurting now due to the fact that Competition Accessories opened their internet distribution warehouse in town last year.

[reloader]

Sometimes the dealer poor attitude causes better choice. In my case I was getting ready to head east to Daytona for bike week with plans on buying a new bike from the reportedly #1 place to buy a H. D. (Rossmeyer). So I call them up and ask for the sales manager. Explained that I had the cash in hand for a new bike and gave him the the two models (Heritage and a Road King) I was interested in. I just wanted to set the price before hand. (had already searched around my area for listed prices). What I got from the manager was "I'll let the Road King go for MSRP and the Heritage I'll work with you". I told him again, I have the cash and will be buying a bike all I needed was a firm price. Again he just gave MSRP & I'll work with you. The call ended there. Having done recon at various dealerships I knew no one was asking full MSRP for any Road King. So much for the #1 Dealer.
At this point I began looking for more dealerships and other bikes. Long story short I ended up heading up to Tennessee instead of Bike Week and picked up my new 06 Nomad. So thanks Rossmeyer for helping me save a ton of money and getting a far better ride!

[billz410]

Just because you are a motorcycle dealer, it doesn't make you an astute businessman. If these dealers could see beyond nickel and diming their customers to death, they would find there are a lot of things customers are willing to pay for. Value-added services, accessories, apparel and the like. Look at all the crap you can buy in an H-D dealership. People will pay for good service, but when you have to keep their bike in the shop a week because you don't stock a $3 gasket, the customer sees that as a week of riding lost forever.

I do my own wrenching, not because I'm cheap - because I want to know what work was done and that it was performed correctly. My dealer (who is no longer in business) was open inconvenient hours, didn't call to let me know my bike was done (I had to call them), and asked me how many cylinders my Nomad had once when I called to schedule an oil change. Make it hard for your customers to do business with you and your customers will go elsewhere.

A hearty amen to this....It would be nice to work with a dealer who knew what was actually going on, but when you have 19-year old kids on the sales floor who know nothing except Ninja's, and a service manager that asks you what cc is a 2008 Nomad, you begin to wonder.

There is a dealer in North Phoenix that has been pretty good, but a sixty mile drive into Phoenix for miscellaneous parts- it just ain't gonna happen.

I would say probably the worst Kawasaki dealer on the face of the earth would be Andrenalin Motorsports of Casa Grande, AZ. Needed two exhaust gaskets for a Nomad- only had one in stock. Phone may ring up to ten times before someone answers. Parts guy cannot talk on the phone and look up a part at the same time. Nothing in stock- ever.

I can order parts from a plethora of online vendors and have the parts quicker and for less money than a dealer. What do I owe a retail dealer? Knowing how to do your own work is part of motorcycling, as far as I'm concerned.

[cactusjack]

Just because you are a motorcycle dealer, it doesn't make you an astute businessman. If these dealers could see beyond nickel and diming their customers to death, they would find there are a lot of things customers are willing to pay for. Value-added services, accessories, apparel and the like. Look at all the crap you can buy in an H-D dealership. People will pay for good service, but when you have to keep their bike in the shop a week because you don't stock a $3 gasket, the customer sees that as a week of riding lost forever.

I do my own wrenching, not because I'm cheap - because I want to know what work was done and that it was performed correctly. My dealer (who is no longer in business) was open inconvenient hours, didn't call to let me know my bike was done (I had to call them), and asked me how many cylinders my Nomad had once when I called to schedule an oil change. Make it hard for your customers to do business with you and your customers will go elsewhere.

A hearty amen to this....It would be nice to work with a dealer who knew what was actually going on, but when you have 19-year old kids on the sales floor who know nothing except Ninja's, and a service manager that asks you what cc is a 2008 Nomad, you begin to wonder.

There is a dealer in North Phoenix that has been pretty good, but a sixty mile drive into Phoenix for miscellaneous parts- it just ain't gonna happen.

I would say probably the worst Kawasaki dealer on the face of the earth would be Andrenalin Motorsports of Casa Grande, AZ. Needed two exhaust gaskets for a Nomad- only had one in stock. Phone may ring up to ten times before someone answers. Parts guy cannot talk on the phone and look up a part at the same time. Nothing in stock- ever.

I can order parts from a plethora of online vendors and have the parts quicker and for less money than a dealer. What do I owe a retail dealer? Knowing how to do your own work is part of motorcycling, as far as I'm concerned.



I couldn't have said it better myself.

[1badbagger]

Our local Kawasaki dealer is about the same. I think the problem is, when you sell HD, all of the bikes are pretty much the same. When you sell the metrics, you have to know sport bikes, dual sports, standards, snowmobiles, four-wheelers and everything else under the sun. The Kawasaki dealer here sells four different brands total too. The sales guys and parts guys just aren't knowledgeabel about everything they sell. That being said they either should be, or the owner/manager needs to assign certain guys to certain bikes.

As far as service, I just can't believe what they charge 1 - for a tire and 2 - to throw that tire on. Let's face it, it's not that hard or time consuming especially for someone who works on bikes all day. The Kaw dealer here will now install for free if you buy the tire there. The prices are a little above what I would pay on-line, but the free mounting is a good deal.

And since we're discussing our gripes with dealers I'll tell this story: Two years ago we were headed out of town to ride the Lolo Loop. We stopped for breakfast on the way out of town and I noticed my wife's Road Star Warrior was leaking gas. I new it was coming from under the tank and the Yamaha dealer was about a mile up the road. So we drove it to the dealer, still packed and ready for the trip. Turns out after about an hour, I had to hurry them along explaining yet again that we were headed out of town (I've been at other dealers where they give you priority if your on the road. We were not made a priority). Another half hour later, after our group had left and headed up the road, they told us it was a crack in a fitting on the fuel line and they couldn't get our part in for a week. My wife was nearly in tears as the owner, Curtis, walked by. I had dealt with Curtis on several occassions and we bought a lot of parts there. Curtis also owned a Warrior for several years. I told Curtis what was going on. At first, I asked him if he would pull the required part off a floor model and he said he couldn't do that. Disappointed, I drove home to get the car to grab my wife's gear since my bike was fully-loaded. When I returned, my wife told me Curtis was going to allow her to use his factory-supplied demo bike (a brand new Stratoliner) for the four days we were gone. We packed everything on the bike, got my Nomad and tooled off down the road. We met our group in Kamiah, our first stop about an hour after they arrived. Curtis didn't have to loan the bike, he just did because he knew we were returning customers and he knew how much my wife and I enjoy riding.

Just thought I would share a good story.

[nomad561]

And since we're discussing our gripes with dealers I'll tell this story: Two years ago we were headed out of town to ride the Lolo Loop. We stopped for breakfast on the way out of town and I noticed my wife's Road Star Warrior was leaking gas. I new it was coming from under the tank and the Yamaha dealer was about a mile up the road. So we drove it to the dealer, still packed and ready for the trip. Turns out after about an hour, I had to hurry them along explaining yet again that we were headed out of town (I've been at other dealers where they give you priority if your on the road. We were not made a priority). Another half hour later, after our group had left and headed up the road, they told us it was a crack in a fitting on the fuel line and they couldn't get our part in for a week. My wife was nearly in tears as the owner, Curtis, walked by. I had dealt with Curtis on several occassions and we bought a lot of parts there. Curtis also owned a Warrior for several years. I told Curtis what was going on. At first, I asked him if he would pull the required part off a floor model and he said he couldn't do that. Disappointed, I drove home to get the car to grab my wife's gear since my bike was fully-loaded. When I returned, my wife told me Curtis was going to allow her to use his factory-supplied demo bike (a brand new Stratoliner) for the four days we were gone. We packed everything on the bike, got my Nomad and tooled off down the road. We met our group in Kamiah, our first stop about an hour after they arrived. Curtis didn't have to loan the bike, he just did because he knew we were returning customers and he knew how much my wife and I enjoy riding.

Just thought I would share a good story.

Great story and you got some great service. I wish I could find a dealer with that level of customer appreciation. Unfortunately, that is the exception,not the standard.

[bokobob]

Back in the middle 1800's in England, especially, there was widespread revolt when the mechanical looms were invented and large textile factories sprouted.....Folks who worked at home on spinning wheels were left out in the cold...

to me, the internet is just another type of industrial revolution...

Somebody said it well "adapt or die"...

As far as dealers go, mine seems to be fine, but if they wouldn't be, there are several small shops and moonlighters who will do what I want and not charge too much..

When I buy tires, I shop the internet, then take my prices adn part numbers to the dealer adn so far they have been able to meet the prices I bring in...

[coacha]

I second what 1badbagger said about knowledge of the bikes. I was getting my DS put on at the nearby Triumph dealership and was talking about models and told the story of how I had to explain that a floor model at the Kawa dealership was an 09 and not a 10 to the sales rep. He said that most people that have a specific type of bike have more intimate knowledge of the bike than the average salesperson because they have to have some knowledge of many different models and makes.

Also, Bob said a truism in that both consumers and dealerships have to adapt, just like those in business had to in years gone by. We have to check prices to see if we can get it local for a competitive price to help the local guy out but not get taken to the cleaners for the sake of buying local, IMHO. I have talked with my service manager and told him just that thought.

I will also commend my local service manager for helping me out a couple times. He did the POG changeout and while he was in there he replaced the rings, which was not part of the deal. He has also gotten my bike in to look at it immediately a couple times when I had problems I couldn't figure out.

[flavor]

It's nice to hear some positive postings about the dealerships as I have experienced some as well.

Don't nickel and dime us and we'll pay..........

Can you say AMEN to that?

[waterman]

I second what 1badbagger said about knowledge of the bikes. I was getting my DS put on at the nearby Triumph dealership and was talking about models and told the story of how I had to explain that a floor model at the Kawa dealership was an 09 and not a 10 to the sales rep. He said that most people that have a specific type of bike have more intimate knowledge of the bike than the average salesperson because they have to have some knowledge of many different models and makes.

Also, Bob said a truism in that both consumers and dealerships have to adapt, just like those in business had to in years gone by. We have to check prices to see if we can get it local for a competitive price to help the local guy out but not get taken to the cleaners for the sake of buying local, IMHO. I have talked with my service manager and told him just that thought.

I will also commend my local service manager for helping me out a couple times. He did the POG changeout and while he was in there he replaced the rings, which was not part of the deal. He has also gotten my bike in to look at it immediately a couple times when I had problems I couldn't figure out.

Ron,

Did the POG go out on you?? If it did, then rings are part of the deal. When mine went out, Kaw said they would put a new oil pump and rings in as part of the service.

[cyclecat]

We used to have the best Kawi dealer in the world until the owner decided the manager wasn't making enough money off of individual sales and fired the manager. The manager, Sheldon, is who I bought both of our Nomads from, all the accessories, F&S or other kinds, from and every once in a while he would through in some small thing for free. Well, maybe not a small thing, we got a free front tire one time. Every Saturday there would be a dozen bikes lined up outside, at any given time, all day long. Most of us went there just to meet each other and shoot the breeze with the Sheldon, but most of us always walked out the door with some kind of purchase.

We stopped one Saturday morning and no Sheldon, but some woman we had never seen was there. When I asked for Sheldon, she told me he no longer worked there and she could help me. Turns out she was the owners wife. I forget what I wanted to buy but when she gave me the price, it was without our usual discount. When I asked about the discount, she informed me all discounts were canceled since her husband wasn't making enough money off individual sales if he gave discounts. As we were 'discussing' the discount, a couple of other regulars showed up, heard the 'discussion' and left.

To make a long story short, word got around really fast about Sheldon no longer running Kawasaki, and within 3 months the dealership closed up for lack of business. They literally sold nothing in parts, accessories, or bikes in that time, and closed up shop. I later talked to Sheldon and got the story from him, and it was pretty much what the owners wife has said. He was told to shut down the discounts, stop talking to all the customers, and basically sit in his office and run the business. He wouldn't do that, told the owner so, and was told to leave. Sheldon tried to get the money together to reopen a Kawasaki dealership but couldn't, and since he didn't want a partner, we never had a local dealership for quite a while.

When the new one opened, it was run by the local HD dealer and that was a nightmare. Couldn't begin to describe the horror of dealing with HD people when riding a metric, but it was bad. They lasted 2 years and sold only a couple of bikes the first year and none the second year. 10 to 14 days to get the simplest of parts and an HD mechanic wrenching for them; again a complete nightmare.

New place is OK, but mighty close to losing our business again because of the sh*tty attitude from everyone in the place. Our son just bought a new $11,000 quad and got told no discounts on accessories or parts, and this kid buys a lot of extras, so he's pretty much soured on them also.

[cactusjack]

I am a self proclaimed "customer service expert". A former employer of mine got on a customer service kick and we had to attend classes and read books on customer service. I took it to heart learned a lot from it.

I believe firmly that in many cases, price is secondary to customer service. That applies to nearly any business - food service, retail, as well as car and motorcycle dealerships. If a business makes their customers feel important, and that their business (and future business) is valued, then that customer will return, even if it might cost them a little more money. Treating a customer like a stranger only reaffirms to the customer that their business isn't valued and they don't care about the customers needs.

Btw, I stopped in Farmington, NM on my way home from Cortez and visited Four Corners H-D to pick up a shirt. They were also a Yamaha and Suzuki dealership. I don't know if the metric customers are treated like red-headed stepchildren or not, but it would be interesting to find out.

[coacha]

I second what 1badbagger said about knowledge of the bikes. I was getting my DS put on at the nearby Triumph dealership and was talking about models and told the story of how I had to explain that a floor model at the Kawa dealership was an 09 and not a 10 to the sales rep. He said that most people that have a specific type of bike have more intimate knowledge of the bike than the average salesperson because they have to have some knowledge of many different models and makes.

Also, Bob said a truism in that both consumers and dealerships have to adapt, just like those in business had to in years gone by. We have to check prices to see if we can get it local for a competitive price to help the local guy out but not get taken to the cleaners for the sake of buying local, IMHO. I have talked with my service manager and told him just that thought.

I will also commend my local service manager for helping me out a couple times. He did the POG changeout and while he was in there he replaced the rings, which was not part of the deal. He has also gotten my bike in to look at it immediately a couple times when I had problems I couldn't figure out.

Ron,

Did the POG go out on you?? If it did, then rings are part of the deal. When mine went out, Kaw said they would put a new oil pump and rings in as part of the service.

It hadn't gone out yet when I had it in the shop. He said "Did the oil light come on for you?" I said "nope" He said "well, when I test drove it, it did so I'll do the FAS on it". Me thinks he needed some work for his guys ;)

[carolinakid1]

This is a portion of a letter I sent to the owner of my local Kawasaki dealership a year ago...and have never received a response.

"About three to four weeks ago I was in ...(I have been in often as I am shopping for a motorcycle and formerly rode a Kawasaki) looking at the 2008 burgundy Mean Streak on the showroom floor.
I spoke to ... and asked if (the dealership) would consider matching a price I had found on Cycle Trader from a Florida dealer because I preferred to deal with a local business.
For the price difference, which was significant, I told him it would be worth it for me to go to Florida and buy it there if (local dealership) would not match the price.

I showed the salesman the printout on the Florida offer. He immediately began to “trash” the dealership in Florida with comments like, they aren’t salesmen down there, I used to work in Florida and they are all New Yorkers, they probably don’t even have that bike in stock now, I got to feed my kids, etc. Then he gave the additional “line,” well, let me take this to the manager.
I was shocked that a “supposedly professional salesman” would act so boorish.
A few minutes later, a man I assume was the sales manager came out and at the front desk they called the Florida Kawasaki dealership and confirmed that indeed the bike was in stock at that price. Then they told me they could not sell me the motorcycle for that price and did not make a counter offer at that time.
I said “okay” and proceeded to leave. The salesman's parting shot to me was, “have a good trip.” That behavior is so immature, unprofessional, and tacky!

One year later, Mean Streak still sets on his showroom floor still listed at a price higher than Florida price. I bought a Nomad in Charlotte, NC (250 miles away) at a better price than the Mean Streak.

Service department is good, but sales sucked.

I do not understand why so many businesses are so short-sighted. I want to help the local dealer, but it cuts both ways.

[dougster]

Amen to all. I have two dealerships in the town 30 miles away. Both have nice new big stores, full of overhead. One of them has a couple guys that treat me well. The other one, well, every time I go in there, I feel like they don't care one iota whether or not they get my business. I won't buy from them if I can help it. I would rather go to the little guy who has a small shop and cares about his customers more than his new boat he is paying for (or whatever), and who knows bikes, and who will work with me.

Often, the internet is FAR more convenient for me. But, I like to keep my business local when I can. And I will be willing to pay a LITTLE more to do that. But if they are going to way overcharge me, and show no desire to have my business, I will take it elsewhere (the internet).

What CJ said was dead on. Show customers that you value them, and they will become loyal customers, and will keep coming back, and even pay a little more. How big of a moron do you have to be to not get that, if you are a business owner or manager?!

[Bdog]

I've had to deal with motorcycle shops for decades and most of them all seem the same. I just don't get it? Why is this part of the industry? They try to rip you off as much as they can and think of you as a number! I too have bought many parts and am blown away when the parts guy asks me, is a Nomad a kawasaki or a Yamaha?..Geez..I surely don't even want to deal with this guy. If you find a sales rep or parts person that has the human factor, some kind of knowledge of their products and treats you like a person..then I'm willing to pay the price..if not..I buy what I have too..grumble and leave. Then look for another place, if there is one..Bdog

[billz410]

Well, it's about time for Greg Wilson to show up now, and tell us what we should be riding and how we should be treated, and how we would be treated if we were riding.......well you get the idea. http://s2.images.proboards.com/tongue.gif http://s2.images.proboards.com/lipsrsealed.gif